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Other Hondas & General Topics => Off Topic (Non-Honda) => Topic started by: Jocko on October 31, 2019, 03:15:19 PM

Title: Sat Nav woes
Post by: Jocko on October 31, 2019, 03:15:19 PM
Today I was taking my step daughter to a college in Glasgow. Now I have driven in San Francisco more often than I have driven in Glasgow (driven through it a thousand times on the M8, but seldom driven in the city).
I Googled my destination and programmed it into my TomTom One before setting off. The sat nav worked perfectly on the roads I knew then as I reached the city boundary it started to show me beside the motorway, then on it, then finally nowhere near the motorway. As I reached the city centre it lost the satellites altogether. Luckily Laura had her Smart phone and she used that to reach our destination. I tried switching sat nav off and on to no avail.
I then turned  for home, relying on road signs, but there were none! I eventually spotted one for the M8, but westbound. I was going east. I ended up guddling about in the city centre, trying to avoid bus lanes and still looking for signs. I knew the M8 was to the north so turned that direction, and miles later I saw signs for Aberfoyle and the Trossachs. I headed for names I recognised and eventually got to somewhere I recognised.
On my return I connected the sat nav up to the computer (for power) and it found the satellites okay.
I am now betwixt and between. My wife says she will buy me a sat nav for Christmas, but I don't know if the old one (10 years I have had it) is going to work and if not, should I put the money towards my wife's gift and get another TomTom. I seldom need a sat nav, but when you do it is indispensable.
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: Kenneve on October 31, 2019, 03:59:24 PM
Hi Jocko
Have had similar issues with Tom Tom satnavs in the past, so changed to Garmin, currently using a Garmin 51 LMT-S and it works fine for me.
I think it's important to connect it to your PC now and again, to keep the software and maps up to date.
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: culzean on October 31, 2019, 04:27:50 PM
After I updated my favourite Garmin Nuvi 1490 about 6 months ago it turned into a brick, and googling it seems that this has happened to quite a few people using Garmin express.  Bought a Garmin Drive 51 to replace it and in many ways it is a better product, but only an hour battery life and IMHO screen not as good as older garmin kit, and mounting bracket a bit strange design.
You have to be careful to turn it off, as if it does off itself it is still powered up and will drain battery in no time even though display is off .  I like Garmin but I feel their newer products are falling in usability and build quality, this maybe due to falling market due to smart phone mapping...but still not good. Check out the drive 51 though, good price, sensitive GPS receiver,  5" screen and plenty of bells and whistles, with good built in database for attractions, garages, shops etc,  I turned off most alerts except speed camera and the bong when going into a lower speed limit zone,  if you leave all the alarms on it bongs every few hundred yards..... there are two models one with built in traffic and a cheaper one which needs to be hooked up with smart phone to get access to traffic information.

Argos seem to have decent prices on Garmin stuff,


https://www.argos.co.uk/product/7197662?rec=PDP[9163319]:bottomSlider:P2:OHAT:alternative:7197662:qCviRB7ntwSWxUmWuoaz




https://www.argos.co.uk/product/9163319?CMPID=BPLA01&_$ja=tsid:72555%7cacid:B008MKVR%7ccid:273141295%7cagid:1189671619136448%7ctid:pla-4577954125862849%7ccrid:74354481525818%7cnw:search%7cdvc:t%7cst:garmin%20drive%2051%20lmt-s%205%20inch%20sat%20nav%7cmt:be%7cloc:&cmpid=BPLA01&msclkid=64b9623266981f63f3e03f896a4cfd98&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Photography%7C%7CMed&utm_term=4577954125862849&utm_content=Photography%7C%7CSat%20Navs&gclid=CLuX5Jf3xuUCFQZAGwodZ0kCaA&gclsrc=ds
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: Jocko on October 31, 2019, 04:42:14 PM
I think it's important to connect it to your PC now and again, to keep the software and maps up to date.
TomTom One no longer supported, unfortunately. Been looking at the Garmin 51 LMT-S.
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: peteo48 on October 31, 2019, 05:43:09 PM
On my trip up to Scotland last month I had a little issue with my TomTom sat nav (this one is about 3 years old and I still get the free updates). We were driving from Motherwell to Ardrossan. The sat nav lady took me off the M8 by mistake (tbh it was obvious she'd got it wrong so I should have ignored her) and then had a bit of a meltdown at one point suggesting I did a U Turn on a one way bridge. Is there a known signal problem in parts of Glasgow? I say this because there is an issue in Northwich in Cheshire which sends sat navs a bit loopy.

I got back on to the M8 by following signs!
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: Jocko on October 31, 2019, 06:19:54 PM
Sat nav failed again sitting in my lounge. Luckily I knew where I was. Must be something heating up and dropping out.
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: John Ratsey on October 31, 2019, 06:28:23 PM
Sat nav failed again sitting in my lounge. Luckily I knew where I was. Must be something heating up and dropping out.
Or do you mean it lost the satellite signal - a big problem if indoors unless next to a south-facing window?

I have used several generation of Garmin sat nav in the past but got exasperated by the practice of using a road name if it could find one instead of a road number which made it difficult to relate the instructions to the road signs. I then switched to Tom Tom which is better in this respect. However, it occasionally causes confusion (it's sometimes necessary to glance at the map on the screen to check which turning is being referred to) or annoyance such as the habit of using single track roads because they are slightly shorter in distance but add significantly to the journey time due to the need to drive cautiously and sometimes go backwards. It's best to study a paper map before starting a journey.
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: VicW on October 31, 2019, 06:41:57 PM
annoyance such as the habit of using single track roads because they are slightly shorter in distance but add significantly to the journey time due to the need to drive cautiously and sometimes go backwards.

Not wishing to teach Granny to suck eggs here but I suggest that you should always set your Satnav to plot the quickest route and not the shortest. Even then they sometimes have an aberation. I reckon that you're right when you say look at a paper map before you set off.

Vic.
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: culzean on October 31, 2019, 06:43:14 PM
I found that using 'shortest route' is a no no, you will always get sent down those single track roads.  I also learned that sometimes the spoken message is wrong and it is always wise to watch the map and follow the graphics if any conflict.  One thing I am not happy about on new Garmin drive 51 is that it no longer has a spoken message to tell you it is recalculating, so you just get a banner flash across top of screen and nothing else to tell you that you have made a wrong turn,  I have had a conversation with Garmin customer services and they seem to have no plans to re-introduce this feature....shame...

I always carry map book in car and look first, and if there is a place I want to go through I put a waypoint in.  My brother in law relies totally on his satnav and literally would not know if he had travelled north, south, east or west to get to his destination.
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: Jocko on October 31, 2019, 06:45:53 PM
Just ordered a GARMIN Drive 51LMT-S. £89 from Currys, complete with case.
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: culzean on October 31, 2019, 08:03:29 PM
The supplied case is just a soft pouch, I kept the proper hard case from my previous 5" Garmin Nuvi and it fits a treat.   I do find that I can get pretty much full signal in middle of our house ( downstairs in two story brick house ) with Garmin 51... so as I said earlier the GPS chip is very sensitive.
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: Jocko on October 31, 2019, 08:37:31 PM
I never use the case. My sat nav was fixed to the windscreen for its entire life.
The TomTom One was sitting in the window where it worked happily - until it failed!
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: madasafish on November 01, 2019, 06:24:35 AM
Driven through Glasgow several times with my very old Garmin several times.. same route. Never had any uissues. Maps up to date.. Fastest route always..
Always store mine away - don't want smashed windows - had that in Brighton once BMW radio taken...
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: John A on November 01, 2019, 07:19:01 AM
I have used several generation of Garmin sat nav in the past but got exasperated by the practice of using a road name if it could find one instead of a road number which made it difficult to relate the instructions to the road signs. I then switched to Tom Tom which is better in this respect.

Garmin is USA based and they seem to like roads having names rather than numbers, whereas the Tom-Tom is Netherlands based and they seem to like road names for the major routes. Though of in a town the names based system can be better.
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: Jocko on November 01, 2019, 08:07:55 AM
Always store mine away - don't want smashed windows - had that in Brighton once BMW radio taken...
90% of the time my car is parked, it is garaged. Hardly ever parked outside after dark. Most new cars have sat navs now, so there is not a great market for secondhand ones (just look at the prices on eBay). It is like alloys. Hardly worth buying locking nuts.
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: sparky Paul on November 01, 2019, 09:15:20 AM
I seem to remember that some of the TomTom Ones (there were a few different versions) developed a fault where they went deaf. Perhaps it needs your hearing aid Jocko.

The problems you face around certain areas (like Glasgow) is that you are coming around back on yourself, even on motorways. A satnav in the windscreen struggles to receive sats behind it, and so locks onto those it can see clearly, forwards. As you double back, it has to try to lock onto other satellites as it loses lock with the ones it was using. If reception is diminished, they can soon lose their marbles.

I tend to use the android version of TomTom now when I'm not in my own car, it works really well.
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: Kenneve on November 01, 2019, 09:47:43 AM
Hi Guys
Talking about the location in the car of the Satnav, you may like to consider something along the lines of the attached photo.
In my opinion it is far less obvious to the local 'perps', than having it stuck to the windscreen and from a distance looks part of the car.
I simply made up a cup shaped adaptor, topped with the normal adhesive pad, to fit in the cupholder. then the Satnav is fixed to that with the supplied suction pad.
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: peteo48 on November 01, 2019, 10:22:22 AM
Looks good that. The cupholder in that position is worse than useless anyway and this is a great way of repurposing it.
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: Jocko on November 01, 2019, 11:34:26 AM
The problems you face around certain areas (like Glasgow) is that you are coming around back on yourself, even on motorways. A satnav in the windscreen struggles to receive sats behind it, and so locks onto those it can see clearly, forwards. As you double back, it has to try to lock onto other satellites as it loses lock with the ones it was using. If reception is diminished, they can soon lose their marbles.
I was driving SW on the M80, towards Glasgow, when it went doolally and finally failed. Almost a straight road.
The problem coming back without assistance was I followed the road I had taken to the college, but to get to the Edinburgh bound M8 you have to veer off. There were no signs that I could see
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: guest7494 on November 01, 2019, 02:11:45 PM
https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=11301.0;attach=5211;image

Fits onto CD adapter fits into slot and tightens up
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: sparky Paul on November 01, 2019, 04:37:02 PM
I was driving SW on the M80, towards Glasgow, when it went doolally and finally failed. Almost a straight road.

Sounds like your unit has developed the intermittant reception fault.
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: Jocko on November 01, 2019, 04:44:57 PM
Yes, after a couple of hours I tried it and it worked. However, after a half hour or so it dropped out again. Sounds like a thermal issue. Not that it matters as it is in the bin now.
Madge got me a GARMIN Drive 51LMT-S as an early Christmas present, and I tried it out today. Works great.

https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=11301.0;attach=5211;image

Fits onto CD adapter fits into slot and tightens up

Thanks. Just ordered one. We play the CD in the car, but if I need the sat nav I'll do without the tunes.
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: MicktheMonster on November 02, 2019, 05:19:10 AM
Im originally from Greater Glasgow and return occasionally, the last couple of times I've found my 7 year old Navman satnav gets irate around Glasgow's motorways giving incorrect instructions etc, I dont use the satnav very often, so I wont pay for updates and I think, though I may be wrong, that it is purely down to the amount of changes to the motorway network there that my satnav struggles as the maps are out of date. On my last visit, last month, I had to go "Old School" and have a bust up with my other half over a road atlas.
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: John Ratsey on November 02, 2019, 08:24:54 AM
One section of the M8 motorway only opened in 2017 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-40921823 so older sat navs might not be aware of it - probably need 2018 or newer mapping updates.
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: Jocko on November 02, 2019, 08:25:43 AM
There have been big changes with the completion of the M8 replacing the A8 parts of the route. The same with the M80 and old A80 (from Castlecary down to Crow wood is so easier now). They have also completed some of the motorways on the south of the city (not that I ever use them.
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: sparky Paul on November 02, 2019, 11:24:08 AM
That's the beauty of the android app, the map files are updated as soon as a new map comes out. Usually 2-3 times a year.

It's worth keeping an old phone just for this purpose, stick a 3 payg sim with the free 200mb data a month in it and you can get traffic data too. There are now a few good free nav apps which store maps offline, like TomTom, so you don't have to pay out for TT (or do anything naughty).

If you want to be really clever, you can put a dashcam app on too!  ;)
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: culzean on November 02, 2019, 04:17:48 PM
Jocko,

here is a PDF instruction manual for your new Drive 51 - enjoy....

http://static.garmin.com/pumac/Drive_51_61_OM_EN.pdf

I assume you downloaded Garmin Express to update the software and maps to latest level when you got the device  ( Garmin normally advise this on the paperwork they supply )

https://www.garmin.com/en-US/software/express/
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: Jocko on November 02, 2019, 04:26:21 PM
I have only had my first ever Android phone a fortnight! I had a Thick phone before that.

Had a drive over to Danderhall today so I gave the GARMIN Drive 51LMT-S a good try out. Very impressed. At least now, when I cross the Queensferry Crossing I am on a road, not flying over the Forth.
I really like the lane advisories, at motorway junctions. I synced it to my phone and it warned of queues and slow traffic. Mind you, when I went into my mother-in-law's, it shows all the new roads being built for Shawfair, but neglected to show a roundabout which has been there 12 years that I know of.

Culzean: Thanks. I downloaded both yesterday and updated everything before I stuck it in the car. Had a good read of the manual, last night and I will be in and out of it for the next few weeks, as I find the need for answers.
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: culzean on November 02, 2019, 05:49:07 PM
If you hold your finger or thumb on the satellite bars on main screen ( top RH corner of screen ) you get another screen showing which satellites you are picking up and your altitude, location coordinates and accuracy.  if you hold bottom LH corner of screen as it is booting up you get some 'system' message on screen and can recalibrate the touch screen by chasing and pressing the dots as they appear.  Used to be able to get loads of diagnostic screens on previous Garmin models by pressing both bottom corners of screen while it was booting, but haven't figured out how to get them on Drive 51 yet...

@Jocko - Found some videos for using Garmin late model satnavs,  a lot of the stuff they don't cover very well in the manual ( or it is easier to see on a video ).. there is a sh1t load of stuff in there......



Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: Jocko on November 14, 2019, 12:16:39 PM
I like my new satnav, but it has many faults as well. Apart from the erroneous maps (roundabout missing, service roads missing), the pronunciation is suspect (avenoo), and the accuracy of distances is a bit off. Also how the Garmin deals with two roundabout close together leaves a lot to be desired. The TomTom would say "At the roundabout take the second exit then at the next roundabout take the third exit". The Garmin is fine for the first roundabout, but waits until you exit that one before offering directions for the next one. Not a lot of use if you have 70 yards between roundabouts and two or more lanes to choose from.
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: culzean on November 14, 2019, 01:05:44 PM
I like my new satnav, but it has many faults as well. Apart from the erroneous maps (roundabout missing, service roads missing), the pronunciation is suspect (avenoo), and the accuracy of distances is a bit off. Also how the Garmin deals with two roundabout close together leaves a lot to be desired. The TomTom would say "At the roundabout take the second exit then at the next roundabout take the third exit". The Garmin is fine for the first roundabout, but waits until you exit that one before offering directions for the next one. Not a lot of use if you have 70 yards between roundabouts and two or more lanes to choose from.

You have to watch the screen,  at least Garmin 'zooms in'  when a roundabout is approaching to give you a more detailed picture.  I have never found distance to be off, but it does throw you a bit when it changes from miles / fractions of a mile to feet for the final approach to a turn - and display jumps from 0.1 ( miles ) to 500 ( feet ).

Another thing I learnt ( the hard way in a strange city ) was that if any dispute between voice message and screen always follow the arrow on the screen....
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: sparky Paul on November 14, 2019, 01:37:07 PM
You have to watch the screen,  at least Garmin 'zooms in'  when a roundabout is approaching to give you a more detailed picture.

Doesn't TomTom? The TT Go app certainly does, and gives lane guidance - I thought that was the same as the later navcores.

I find TT voice guidance pretty good, as Jocko says, it gives you more detailed instructions in advance of anything complicated. It's ok if you only have to briefly glance at the screen to confirm where you're going, but any longer is not safe in roundabout traffic.
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: culzean on November 14, 2019, 05:47:18 PM
On Jocko and mine Garmin Drive you have to go to settings / map and vehicle and tick the box for auto zoom, have to say if satnav is where it should be in line of sight it is to see the magnified roundabout and see where the purple highlighted route goes...
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: John Ratsey on November 14, 2019, 06:09:32 PM
My TomTom (recent model) struggles with two roundabouts close together. It's best to use the spoken instructions as a prompt to take a quick look at the screen which shows the required direction (eg the first turning might be straight on, depending on the road layout).
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: sparky Paul on November 14, 2019, 06:26:20 PM
My TomTom (recent model) struggles with two roundabouts close together. It's best to use the spoken instructions as a prompt to take a quick look at the screen which shows the required direction (eg the first turning might be straight on, depending on the road layout).

I can't say I've noticed any problems to be honest, but I've always used the android app, and the Windows CE tablet version before that, not the stand alone units. When two events are close together, it usually bundles the instructions up together.
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: Ozzie on November 14, 2019, 08:00:02 PM
Sat nav failed again sitting in my lounge. Luckily I knew where I was. Must be something heating up and dropping out.
Blimey how big is your house ? You need a sat nav to find the kitchen ?  :P :P
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: Jocko on November 16, 2019, 05:05:22 PM
I am using the satnav all the time (after all it switches on and off automatically).
I was joining an urban dual carriageway, here in Kirkcaldy, which has no slip (just a road junction).  The satnav told me to turn right, even though it is left turn only. The central reservation is solid so to turn right you would have to turn into lane 2 of the oncoming traffic. Now there is an arrow in the carriageway and I am sure there is other signage, but a driver strange to the area, maybe after dark or just under pressure from screaming bairns and a greetin' wife could make the possibly fatal error of turning right. Even my wife, a non driver, commented on it.
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: John Ratsey on November 16, 2019, 05:34:43 PM
I don't think Garmin has the equivalent of TomTom's system for users to report mapping errors http://uk.support.tomtom.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/7244/~/about-tomtom-mapshare .
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: Jocko on November 16, 2019, 06:48:51 PM
No, they don't. I reported a number of errors on the TomTom system.
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: John A on November 16, 2019, 09:17:41 PM
No, they don't. I reported a number of errors on the TomTom system.

Have a look here:

https://support.garmin.com/en-GB/?faq=pJLZBzPen9A7OXw5vlRyu5 which leads to

https://my.garmin.com/mapErrors/report.faces
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: Jocko on November 21, 2019, 11:06:59 PM
More satnav woes today. Occasionally it has failed to sync with my phone but I have always got them chatting again. Today, nothing would get them talking. I brought it up to the house and spent a couple of hours faffing with it to no avail. I updated the software (including an update to Garmin Express) and  removed and re-installed Smartphone Link but still no luck. The phone would find the iOS version, but not the Android version it needed. Eventually I gave up in disgust and decided I would just use it, as I did the TomTom, for finding addresses that were unfamiliar to me.
This evening, I went on the Garmin UK site and they had a Live chat function, so I thought I would give it a try. While I was waiting on a response I thought I had better fire them up again in case I was asked questions, so I reinstalled Smartphone Link (I had removed it from my phone in disgust) and lo and behold, the f***ing thing worked.
It is a pain in the butt, but I like it when it works. Just checked it a minute ago and it is currently working.
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: Jocko on December 02, 2019, 02:57:34 PM
My last post on my Garmin 51 Drive. I like some of the bells and whistles but the basic mapping is cr@p. It will get you where you want to go but be prepared for a bit of a journey. The maps leave out lots of roundabouts that I have encountered. And we are not just taking new ones or painted circles. Roundabouts that I have used for 15+ years are missing. I stick it on even when driving in my local area just to see how well, or otherwise, it copes. Today it tried to send me up a one way street, the wrong way, and it has been one way all the time I have lived here.

(https://i.imgur.com/gTO6TPk.jpg)

Today I wanted to go from the traffic lights at A to B, on the photo (from Google Maps). The shortest and best route is shown in green (30 mph zone). It wanted me to go via the red route (also 30 mph), navigating the worst roundabout in town at C (the main road is the other two roads at C so you struggle to get on to the roundabout as the Garmin directed). Give the satnav its due though - it doesn't know there is a roundabout there!

I do love the phonetic pronunciations of street names (another reason I use it in my local area), despite the fact it insists on saying Avenoo. And also how it pronounces your destination. I cannot explains how it says "Christopher".

Okay, that's it. No more from me on my satnav.
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: culzean on December 02, 2019, 03:19:52 PM
Funny you should mention mapping,  I have just driven into Shrewsbury and wanted to find the railway station using my Garmin Drive 51,  it took me a lovely drive through the suburbs but probably added at least 5 miles to my journey,  and coming back 'home' it tried to take me the long way around again but I knew where I was going and decided to save 5 miles worth of fuel,  it tried to get me doing U-turns a few time until it realised where I was going and calculated a nnew route more in line with where I was going.  The behaviour of even modern satnavs sort of reinforces my doubts about autonomous vehicles ever being able to roam freely about on the roads - what happens when they come across missing roundabouts etc.

The other problem I have is with road signs,  when I was entering the suburbs of Shrewsbury there was the symbol ( old red British rail one ) showing the way to the station, this was about 2 miles from the station,  but I did not see any more signs after that,  so if I had been trying to find station using road signs I would have been totally frustrated,  and this happens a lot in UK where the signs seem to disappear after a few turns.
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: sparky Paul on December 02, 2019, 03:22:34 PM
I do love the phonetic pronunciations of street names (another reason I use it in my local area), despite the fact it insists on saying Avenoo. And also how it pronounces your destination. I cannot explains how it says "Christopher".

Leverton Road near me, which is pronounced the same as 'Everton', comes out as Lev-urr-ton on most satnavs, and the female voice I have in my Vauxhall pronounces the 'A' in a-roads like The Fonz use to say "Heyyyy" in Happy Days... so it's Heyyyy-fifty-seven. Really odd.
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: Jocko on December 02, 2019, 04:16:31 PM
Nothing to do with satnavs, but an ex workmate of mine was stopped by an Aussie, and asked for directions to Loogabarooga Road. He pointed out that there was no road in Kirkcaldy with that name, so the lad showed him the written address.
Loughborough Road. Keep meaning to drive along it to see what the satnav calls it!
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: Jocko on February 07, 2020, 11:47:03 AM
I keep saying I have moaned enough, but this Garmin satnav is rubbish. The maps are so out of date, and the second biggest hospital for miles around is not included in the list of hospitals you can navigate to. The Western General, in Edinburgh, is hardly a cottage hospital.
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: culzean on February 07, 2020, 12:08:10 PM
I keep saying I have moaned enough, but this Garmin satnav is rubbish. The maps are so out of date, and the second biggest hospital for miles around is not included in the list of hospitals you can navigate to. The Western General, in Edinburgh, is hardly a cottage hospital.

I don't have a problem with mapping on my Garmin Drive 51,  but the battery life is absolutely abysmal - after driving for hours in the car with it plugged in if I put it in glovebox for a couple of days ( by holding down power button until a message to turn it off appears and then OK'ing it ) if i turn it on after even a couple of days just to put a postcode in or something the battery warning appears - it literally needs to be plugged in all the time even though they claim a 30 minute battery life,  which is derisory anyway.   I have contacted Garmin who suggested firstly that I was not turning it off properly ( if you just let it turn itself off apparently it is not really off ) and then suggested I was not charging it properly.  Also the contrast and visibility of the screen is not as good as my 8 year old Nuvi -----
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: Jocko on February 07, 2020, 12:26:19 PM
If you leave it connected up all the time (as I do) the battery is always sitting at 100%, and as you have said yourself, this is detrimental to the battery. I got 45 minutes out of mine when it was new, but what the life is like now is anyone's guess. The TomTom had map errors too, but nothing like the amount on the Garmin.
I don't find the screen a problem at all, probably because it is twice the size of my old one (and on the CD player against stuck to the windscreen).
As an aside, it looks like I won't be going to the Western General after all, because my wife's chemotherapy in Kirkcaldy, will not be finished in time for her appointment
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: culzean on February 07, 2020, 01:51:20 PM
The battery life on my 5" Garmin Nuvi was about 3 hours - I did replace the battery about 4 years after I got it as the life was getting shorter - down to less than 2 hours. On my original 3.5" Garmin streetpilot ( bought in about 2006 ) the life was 8 hours ( I still have it,  put a new battery in a few years ago and I carry it when hill walking - just press the car icon when I park the car and have a record of where the car is - useful even though the device does not have off-road maps ) you could use those for a whole journey and not plug them in - the battery life on the Drive 51 is so bad it will not last even the shortest journey without being plugged in to its life support.... that is progress I suppose :)
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: JimSh on February 07, 2020, 03:00:08 PM
I keep saying I have moaned enough, but this Garmin satnav is rubbish. The maps are so out of date, and the second biggest hospital for miles around is not included in the list of hospitals you can navigate to. The Western General, in Edinburgh, is hardly a cottage hospital.

Glad I stuck with Tom Tom now.
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: John Ratsey on February 07, 2020, 06:39:54 PM
Glad I stuck with Tom Tom now.
I'm also a Tom Tom user due to the much more frequent map updates. Tom Tom also provides a relatively easy way for users to report map errors.

The last Garmin satnav I bought (several years ago) included one free map update which I applied just before going on the main holiday of the year. The "new" map was at least a year out of date and got totally confused when it thought I was driving through fields when I was on the Porthmadog bypass.
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: Jocko on May 06, 2020, 02:24:51 PM
I found an interesting anomaly with the Garmin. To explain, I use it all the time. Even on routes, I am entirely familiar with. I like how it warns of traffic issues and gives an estimated journey time.
Now when I am on my way home from the Queensferry Crossing I have two options. The A92 and the A921. Because we have been running back and forward from the Western General in Edinburgh itself, I noticed that the satnav always sends me on the A92, my preferred route. However, when I come back from Danderhall, on the south of the city, it wants to send me on the A921. Now both ways involve me using the QFC. The algorithm it uses for calculating the route sees a distinction. Maybe it rounds to the nearest mile or something. Strange.
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: VicW on May 06, 2020, 03:51:29 PM
Jocko, have you got your satnav set to calculate the quickest route or the shortest route?

Vic.
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: Jocko on May 06, 2020, 04:52:22 PM
Quickest. Shortest sends you across cities using every lane and vennel.
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: culzean on May 06, 2020, 05:19:09 PM
Quickest. Shortest sends you across cities using every lane and vennel.

+1   

I stopped using shortest route on satnavs a few weeks after I got my first one in about 2006 ( a Garmin streetpilot 510 with a 3.7" screen - still got it and it works fine,  with an 8 hour battery life compared to the 30 minutes or less with new Drive 51 - and battery would stay charged for months,  every time I turn the Drive 51 on it is saying low battery - even if I only used it a couple of days before ).

I quickly realised 'shortest' would just draw a straight line from your start point to destination and take you down every narrow lane and goat track.  At least fastest tries to keep you on better roads,  but a lot of single track lanes are still 60mph speed limit - so it will still sometimes try to take you down one to chop a corner off,  you get into the habit of ignoring any turning that looks a bit dodgy and let it recalculate.   I also learnt that if any conflict between spoken instruction and the screen arrow always follow the screen ( I had a few sweary times when voice said turn left and screen was showing right and learned the hard way to follow screen ).   Must have been a mismatch in the messaging occasionally in my earlier satnavs,  have not had this on Drive 51 yet.
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: Jocko on May 06, 2020, 06:29:34 PM
My 51 directed me down this road when I took a route I preferred over the prescribed course.

(https://i.imgur.com/wyctlMZ.jpg)

If I had been a stranger, and lost, I might have taken it (doesn't look too bad).

This is the other end of the road, two miles further on.

(https://i.imgur.com/mPRhQwh.jpg)

Look close, and you will see the locked gate!
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: John Ratsey on May 07, 2020, 08:37:55 AM
Now when I am on my way home from the Queensferry Crossing I have two options. The A92 and the A921. Because we have been running back and forward from the Western General in Edinburgh itself, I noticed that the satnav always sends me on the A92, my preferred route. However, when I come back from Danderhall, on the south of the city, it wants to send me on the A921. Now both ways involve me using the QFC. The algorithm it uses for calculating the route sees a distinction. Maybe it rounds to the nearest mile or something. Strange.
Might it be that if going in one direction there is a junction / roundabout where, under normal traffic conditions, there is a delay but you go straight through when going in the other direction? I presume that average junction delays are programmed into the calculation.
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: Jocko on May 07, 2020, 10:45:46 AM
Both routes are in the same direction QFC to Kirkcaldy. Where I have come from before that should be immaterial. Once I am on the bridge, northbound there should be no difference.
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: richardfrost on May 07, 2020, 01:31:20 PM
Both routes are in the same direction QFC to Kirkcaldy. Where I have come from before that should be immaterial. Once I am on the bridge, northbound there should be no difference.
Time of day? Time of the month? Er, maybe not the second one.
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: Jocko on May 07, 2020, 01:49:34 PM
Time of day? Time of the month? Er, maybe not the second one.
Time of day doesn't seem to matter, only the point of departure. Could be the latter as it is a lady who gives me my route instructions  :o
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: Kenneve on May 08, 2020, 11:05:13 AM
+1  regarding the quickest route, as Jocko says, no point in trying to negotiate farm tracks et al.

I'm a bit confused with Culzean's comments about battery life. For me, sat nav never runs on battery alone, since it is plugged into the cigarette lighter socket and is running all the time the engine is on.  Engine off = sat nav off.

Overall I've found the Drive 51 model to be reliable and have no complaints.
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: Jocko on May 08, 2020, 11:34:40 AM
Culzean uses his for walking I believe.
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: culzean on May 08, 2020, 12:22:24 PM
Culzean uses his for walking I believe.

+1

I do like to take satnav with me when i park in a strange town, or hill walking / rambling,  i press the car icon on the screen and save that location just as 'car' - then i always know I can find car again.  with all my previous satnavs battery life has always been over 3 hours ( as I said original streepilot 510 was 8 hours ).

What really irks me about latest Garmin Drive 51 is that they claim battery life as 30 mins which it pitiful,  and every time I turn it off ( i hold down power button and wait until message appears do i want to turn off and acknowledge it ) - I just know that next time I turn it on outside the car to enter a destination that the battery low warning will be showing,  I have had correspondence with Garmin about it and they say I am 'not turning it off properly' - which puzzles me because I am doing exactly as they say in their emails....

So unless I get a power bank it is useless to take Drive 51 with me.. ( although ironically it does off off-road navigation )... Oh well

One good thing about the Drive 51 - is that the unit bongs when approaching a lower speed limit ( ignores if you are going into a higher limit ) and the speed limit shown on unit changes within a few metres of a sign...
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: Jocko on May 11, 2020, 11:18:20 AM
I have my Garmin 51 connected continuously to the power connector, and it comes on and off automatically with the ignition.
Last Wednesday I had an 80-mile trip then put the car away in the garage. When I brought it out this morning, the 51 displayed "Battery is low". As culzean says, doesn't say a lot for the battery that it goes flat in five days, WHEN NOT BEING USED.
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: John A on May 11, 2020, 11:46:15 AM
I have my Garmin 51 connected continuously to the power connector, and it comes on and off automatically with the ignition.
Last Wednesday I had an 80-mile trip then put the car away in the garage. When I brought it out this morning, the 51 displayed "Battery is low". As culzean says, doesn't say a lot for the battery that it goes flat in five days, WHEN NOT BEING USED.

If it's like all the other Garmin GPS's I've recently owned then you leaving it in standby is it being effectively being used.  A similar analogy, you wouldn't expect your car battery to last very long if you turned off the engine, but left the ignition on.
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: culzean on May 11, 2020, 03:57:01 PM
I have my Garmin 51 connected continuously to the power connector, and it comes on and off automatically with the ignition.
Last Wednesday I had an 80-mile trip then put the car away in the garage. When I brought it out this morning, the 51 displayed "Battery is low". As culzean says, doesn't say a lot for the battery that it goes flat in five days, WHEN NOT BEING USED.

If it's like all the other Garmin GPS's I've recently owned then you leaving it in standby is it being effectively being used.  A similar analogy, you wouldn't expect your car battery to last very long if you turned off the engine, but left the ignition on.

Yes but it is not in standby, that is my grouch - I have always pressed the power button for a long time until a message  'turn off the device'  with options 'cancel' and 'off' ( and pressed the off on the screen ) - which Garmin support assure me is the correct way to turn it of rather than just press the power button for a few seconds to put the unit into standby.. you can tell it is not in standby because unit will recover from standby state very quickly without having to reboot,  mine always fully reboots when I turn it on - but the battery icon is red and the message 'low battery' normally comes on pretty soon.

All garmin support could come up with was that I was not turning the unit off properly - or not charging it properly,  but I have been on trips of 5 hours or more with it plugged in and next day it still shows low battery,  but garmin refused to accept this as a fault...

They also confirmed that the battery life is a measly 30 minutes ( but i thought that was the life if you left it fully powered up,  seems i was wrong and that is actually the life of the battery when unit is fully turned off  :o ).

I never leave garmin plugged into the car when not using it - it is turned off and put in its case.
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: John A on May 11, 2020, 04:05:58 PM
So the battery is effectively only to cover transient power drop outs from the 12v supply? How useless.
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: culzean on May 11, 2020, 04:49:45 PM
So the battery is effectively only to cover transient power drop outs from the 12v supply? How useless.

Yes,  which means you cannot use it anywhere outside the car without a power bank of a decent size.  What is really annoying is that often you are in the house trying to enter new destinations and the battery low warning keeps nagging you,  lucky I have a 230 volt plug in power supply from a previous satnav with a mini USB plug on it - I can use that to keep unit alive at least while I enter new stuff -  but even after hours of charging on that I just know that when I turn the garmin on in a few days time the red battery warning will be on... proper pants..

Seems fairly common on newer satnavs now to get a short battery life compared to older ones,  maybe the A-h has been devalued and nobody told us..
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: richardfrost on May 12, 2020, 12:14:47 PM
Surely it would be easier to use a phone for navigation not in the car Culzean?
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: guest9236 on May 12, 2020, 12:42:44 PM
Surely it would be easier to use a phone for navigation not in the car Culzean?

On occasions I use FREE  Here We Go mapping app suitable for Apple and Android phones  you can download map for the country you require ie Scotland Eng,and Wales or Individual countries such as France Germany etc,this saves storage on phones ,also it is enabled for Walking Cycling and Driving also can be set to use offline therefore no Internet access required have used it for years  also gives bus times locally and local stops but I have not personally used this facility.
I can recommend this as a first class app. have had no problems at all you can choose voice to suit, it also darkens at night for driving automatically.
Also free updates
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: culzean on May 12, 2020, 01:26:23 PM
Surely it would be easier to use a phone for navigation not in the car Culzean?

It would be if I had a smart phone  :o 
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: richardfrost on May 12, 2020, 02:12:03 PM
Surely it would be easier to use a phone for navigation not in the car Culzean?

It would be if I had a smart phone  :o

Fair enough. As a runner, I have a Garmin smartwatch which has a battery that lasts for a week.

Even on GPS tracking mode it lasted for nearly a whole day when I ran a marathon last October.

Baffles my why the batteries in their car GPS units are so bad. I have two of them (bought years apart) and they are both the same. I can only blame the screens.
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: sparky Paul on May 12, 2020, 06:03:50 PM
Surely it would be easier to use a phone for navigation not in the car Culzean?
It would be if I had a smart phone  :o

You don't have to use it as a smart phone, or even a phone at all . An old hand me down, or secondhand android phone is a cheap, effective sat nav.
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: Jocko on May 12, 2020, 06:11:47 PM
An old hand me down, or secondhand android phone is a cheap, effective sat nav.
You have to have a SIM fitted and connection to a network, do you not?
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: sparky Paul on May 12, 2020, 06:23:13 PM
An old hand me down, or secondhand android phone is a cheap, effective sat nav.
You have to have a SIM fitted and connection to a network, do you not?

No

Just download the app and the maps whilst connected to your internet at home and you're away. There's a few nav apps that will work completely offline.
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: culzean on May 12, 2020, 06:25:24 PM
An old hand me down, or secondhand android phone is a cheap, effective sat nav.
You have to have a SIM fitted and connection to a network, do you not?

IIRC you can use wifi to download map app and maps but without the help of the phone towers the GPS can be a bit slow and not so sensitive - But I just like the plain functionality of a dedicated satnav and the Drive 51 is the only one I have been disappointed with the battery on - otherwise it works very well.
Title: Re: Sat Nav woes
Post by: sparky Paul on May 12, 2020, 06:35:09 PM
IIRC you can use wifi to download map app and maps but without the help of the phone towers the GPS can be a bit slow and not so sensitive

The phone still connects to the transmitters, even without a SIM - you can also still use the phone for emergency calls.

In any case, the phone's built in GPS is always the most accurate system, they use the same chipsets as stand alone sat navs  If you are using the phone as a satnav, the app will turn on the internal GPS. The system using the phone towers is used as an alternative to save battery power, but is low accuracy and not suitable for navigation.

In my experience, a phone works every bit as well. OH uses TomTom on the phone, and once running, it's just like a dedicated satnav. I keep it on my phone just as a backup, as I have one built into the car.

Also, if you want the addition of live traffic data for these apps, you can still pick up pay-as-you-go data sims for three network which give you 200MB of data every month free, without any top up - 200MB a month is plenty for traffic data.

Sygic GPS is a popular free app for android.