Headlights

[Basil]

I've been reading the posts about replacement LED bulbs with interest as I find the standard lights quite good but there's always room for improvement.

I thought most new cars these days were fitted with LED's, I didn't realise there was also something called HID which I assume is the type fitted to a lot of Audi's and BMW's.

I find the headlights on some of these new cars do seem really bright and can be a bit distracting for other road users but the worst I've experienced was a boy racer type car, perhaps about 10 years old. It caught up with the car about 2 or 3 places behind me and I just couldn't believe how bright and dazzling the lights were. The cars in between us then turned off and the car was directly behind me, I could hardly see a thing so I slowed down to let it overtake me.

I'm not sure what bulbs were in the above car but I'm sure they must have badly adjusted to be that bad, which probably made it a lot worse when the lights were so bright.

Anyway, with all the recommendations, I've been thinking of taking the plunge but after a quick google I've found several up to date reports (including whatcar) saying LED's are an illegal replacement for cars originally fitted with filament bulbs. Even the ClassicCarLEDs website has a disclaimer saying aftermarket external LED bulbs are not 100% technically road legal.

Am I missing something ?

How many of you have checked with your insurance company if it affects your cover ?

[d2d4j]

Hi

We fitted classic cars led a few years ago (thanks culzean) and it has passed 2 mot (I did inform garage leds were fitted)

I also informed our insurance company and they noted it on our policy but only at my insistence to do so.

So no insurance issues

Many thanks

John

[culzean]

There are lots of truly awful cheap and nasty aftermarket LED and high intensity discharge ( HID - an electric arc in a tube ) kits available and they get fitted by some people and they take them out for MOT and then put them back after.  Look at some of the videos in this original headlights thread and you will see that a lot of the LED bulbs were tested and then binned,  only the ones with the philips Luxeon ZES chips passed their tests for hotspot position and beam shape / distribution.  Now £70 is not a small amount to pay for a pair of bulbs when you can go on fleabay and get a pair for £10,  but a lot of cars on here have passed MOT with the classiccarleds ones fitted, as remarked most of the extra light goes on the nearside verge and the beam pattern is flat and well controlled with very little stray light.

The dazzling lights even come on modern German and high end cars,  most of the dazzling ones on older cars are probably badly designed LED or HID retrofit.  It is important that the shape and position of the light source matches the shape of the filament bulb it replaces,  some nasty ones have big square or round LED chips,  the classiccarleds philips chips are made to be same length and height as a filament, and in the same position on the bulb relative to focus point of headlight reflector.

Headlight revolution videos on page 1 about halfway down.

If you look around 25 minute point on 'what to look for when buying' video from headlight revolution it discusses the philips chips...

https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=8738.0

here is another video - again look after 24 minute mark to see the importance of chip size and placement to beam pattern...

[Basil]

Thanks for the comments and advice.

I'm not doubting the quality of these bulbs but even though they pass MOT's and several insurance companies seem to be ok with them, they don't seem to be technically 100% legal do they ?

I just asked my insurance company and they said they couldn't find any reference to fitting aftermarket LED bulbs so they 'should' be ok.

I suppose if they pass MOT's, are ok with insurance companies and the million dollar question,  are not unsafe for other road users, they might be technically illegal but it's probably ok to fit them.

[guest4871]

They are unsafe for other road users.

LED modified headlights are illegal.

They are not covered in the MOT and will thus are not a failure. It does not make them legal.

The problem for other road users is the light spectrum. See the attached analysis below from classiccarsled to see why.

The blue spectrum in LED bulbs is equal to the daylight spectrum. This causes night blindness even in daylight for on coming road users.

The LED light spectrum is markedly different to halogen.

LED headlights are as anti social as loud exhausts and pounding music. That doesn't seem to worry people who only think of themselves.

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[culzean]

Thanks for the comments and advice.

I'm not doubting the quality of these bulbs but even though they pass MOT's and several insurance companies seem to be ok with them, they don't seem to be technically 100% legal do they ?

I just asked my insurance company and they said they couldn't find any reference to fitting aftermarket LED bulbs so they 'should' be ok.

I suppose if they pass MOT's, are ok with insurance companies and the million dollar question,  are not unsafe for other road users, they might be technically illegal but it's probably ok to fit them.

Another advantage of the LED bulbs is that I am quite happy to drive on dipped beam in daylight because the LED do not have a limited lifespan like filament bulbs,  especially the +130, +150 ones, and because less heat out the front ( it goes our at rear through heatsink) the insects and other crud does not bake onto headlight lens...

Bear in mind the MOT is very precise on beam pattern and light distribution ( there are some graphs earlier in this thread about what the MOT beam testing machine looks for ) - this is to ensure that headlights are as effective as possible but you do not dazzle other road users ( the term they use is 'dazzle zone' ). Your car will fail MOT if headlight are set too low, as well as too high or wrong beam pattern.

As far as light temperature is concerned many high end cars with HID ( and scrotes cars with HID and dodgy LED ) are very much more blue than the 6000K of the LED discussed here.  If you read boy racer forums they know their lights will not pass MOT and take bulbs out for the test and fit filament bulbs,  and then put dodgy bits back.

It is just natural technical advancement for LED to take over from filaments,  just as filaments took over from acetylene lamps, and acetylene lamps took over from oil lamps, oil lamps from candles etc. etc.. something will take over from LED soon.

[guest4871]

As far as light temperature is concerned many high end cars with HID ( and scrotes cars with HID and dodgy LED ) are very much more blue than the 6000K of the LED discussed here.  If you read boy racer forums they know their lights will not pass MOT and take bulbs out for the test and fit filament bulbs,  and then put dodgy bits back.

We are talking LED bulbs here! Because people do worse does make a wrong right.

I don't read boy racer forums myself (except here  ). I don't follow topics on dodgy bulb modifications or dodgy exhausts or dodgy bass amplifiers. I don't think the last is an MOT issue either.



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[guest4871]

Another advantage of the LED bulbs is that I am quite happy to drive on dipped beam in daylight because the LED do not have a limited lifespan like filament bulbs,  especially the +130, +150 ones, and because less heat out the front ( it goes our at rear through heatsink) the insects and other crud does not bake onto headlight lens...

Bear in mind the MOT is very precise on beam pattern and light distribution ( there are some graphs earlier in this thread about what the MOT beam testing machine looks for ) - this is to ensure that headlights are as effective as possible but you do not dazzle other road users ( the term they use is 'dazzle zone' ). Your car will fail MOT if headlight are set too low, as well as too high or wrong beam pattern.

As far as light temperature is concerned many high end cars with HID ( and scrotes cars with HID and dodgy LED ) are very much more blue than the 6000K of the LED discussed here.  If you read boy racer forums they know their lights will not pass MOT and take bulbs out for the test and fit filament bulbs,  and then put dodgy bits back.

It is just natural technical advancement for LED to take over from filaments,  just as filaments took over from acetylene lamps, and acetylene lamps took over from oil lamps, oil lamps from candles etc. etc.. something will take over from LED soon.

I see you have edited this post.

Quote "I am quite happy to drive on dipped beam in daylight". My point entirely.

Modified LED headlights are just as much a problem in daylight too for other road users as are some DLR.

It is not an issue of beam pattern or 'dazzle'.

We won't need headlights with autonomous cars.

[cornishpasty]

Really informative post by Culzean. Thank you. I guess cyclists and pedestrians both would appreciate headlights on vehicles. unless they are robots too !

[culzean]

We won't need headlights with autonomous cars.

By the time you see proper autonomous cars we will be using pieces of luminous rock from a far galaxy as headlights = don't hold you breath waiting for credible free roaming autonomous cars that don't run over cyclists or drive into fire trucks to appear anytime soon.

[culzean]

Now you can get laser activated phosphorous bulbs.... only seem suitable for projector style headlights at the moment.

[Steve1962]

Thanks to Culzean's original post about LED bulbs from classiccarleds.co.uk, I have fitted them on my 61 plate Jazz, and our other car, a 64 plate Suzuki SX4.

The bulbs are an impressive improvement, and well worth the investment for me, as we live in the countryside where the roads are unlit - these lights provide a wide beam which lights up the side of the road very well.

Both cars have been through MOT's without issue as the beam pattern is fine.

I'd recommend them.

Steve

[Basil]

I'm not one to rush into things, so a year after enquiring about them I've finally had a set delivered !

They look quite impressive, I can see why they're £70 now.

There is only 1 allen key and that's for the two grub screws that hold the mounting ring in place, the heat sink is kept in place with a spring washer.

I can't see any numbers for the bulb rotation but there are 13 positions and the 12th is marked in green, the instructions say this suits the majority of vehicles.

I'll try to fit them later.

[culzean]

The bulbs may have changed slightly since I got ours over 3 years ago.  They are normally supplied in the correct rotation position for RHD UK use. You have got them at the right time now days getting shorter, I would have really appreciated them when I used to commute 40 miles each way on B roads in all weather, much of it in dark.

[Steve1962]

The bulbs may have changed slightly since I got ours over 3 years ago.  They are normally supplied in the correct rotation position for RHD UK use. You have got them at the right time now days getting shorter, I would have really appreciated them when I used to commute 40 miles each way on B roads in all weather, much of it in dark.

The position marked will be the right one - Culzean is right about your timing to fit these - they really do make such a difference, I doubt very much that you'll regret fitting them.

Thanks
Steve