Author Topic: Battery challenge 2016 jazz  (Read 3660 times)

1643

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Re: Battery challenge 2016 jazz
« Reply #30 on: June 18, 2021, 01:04:49 PM »
I do not believe an elegant solution exists, the car is being used in arduous stop/start circumstances for which Honda would probably not recommend,  the heavy use of the starter, a hundred  start cycles in only 5 miles of driving is probably beyond the capacity of the alternator to replenish the battery. A relative drove as a self-employed courier in London, using  Vauxhall Astra diesel vans,  many short 3 to 5  mile trips per day interspersed with longer trips. Alternators and batteries were regular failures, and were replaced on failure at 12 to 18 month intervals, I'm pleased  to hear  the Jazz mechanical and electrical parts are coping with the workload, they are clearly over-engineered in comparison to the Vauxhall parts.

I don’t know why I answered the question why I fitted lithium battery and all about courier work etc, it’s all off topic and irrelevant. I should have simply said that the car has a lithium battery that I need for some of my needs and at other times when car is used in a perfectly normal way I’m looking for a way to get stop start to work. To put it very short and avoid silly questions, I want it to work in following scenario:

1) delivering parcels I am not expecting stop start to work. Heavy strain on battery
2) end of working day, using dedicated lithium charger to charge it fully
3) the following day or after a few hours I disconnect charger and go to the city, I want stop start to activate in traffic

Droneranger

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Re: Battery challenge 2016 jazz
« Reply #31 on: June 18, 2021, 01:50:12 PM »


You may get some help if you post your problem on the larger forum here ;

www.fitfreak.net/forums/
« Last Edit: June 24, 2021, 09:51:55 PM by Droneranger »

richardfrost

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Re: Battery challenge 2016 jazz
« Reply #32 on: June 18, 2021, 02:33:03 PM »
You are doing deliveries up to 100 per day, and each distance between deliveries can be less than 100 yards. But stop start only works if the ignition is on. Are you saying you are doing up to 100 deliveries a day and leaving the car unattended with the ignition on (engine running) every time?

Apart from the safety and legal issues, if I was that way inclined, and saw you doing that, I would only have to follow you a few hundred yards on foot to your next delivery and then jump in and have it away with your car and all the packages onboard.

Am I missing something?

You are missing EVERYTHING. Let me start from the beginning.

Harsh.

I think the confusion is between the two valid and different examples of stop/start in your issue. When you are doing your courier work, you manually stop and restart the car. OK, I get that. When you are on a journey into the city, you want the automatic stop/start to work.

As others have said, the latter requires a number of conditions to be satisfied, not the least of which is for the battery to be as the car expects it to be. Given you have a different battery chemistry installed, this is never going to happen. Any savings on fuel you might make by getting stop/start working with your new battery would be offset by any complicated electronics or switching you would have to install, in my opinion.

The only solution I can see to this problem would be a hybrid vehicle, given they are well set up to deal with both scenarios. However, this is also not an option for you. I expect you will have to live with it as it is.

John Ratsey

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Re: Battery challenge 2016 jazz
« Reply #33 on: June 18, 2021, 03:42:30 PM »
One thought: How are you connecting the charger to the battery? Are you connecting the -ve clip to the earth strap end of the intelligent battery sensor which then tells the ECU that the battery is being charged? The ECU is then more likely to let the auto stop-start work.

However, my experience was that one of the battery checks for the auto stop-start was only done when the engine was started at the beginning of a journey. If that check didn't pass then the auto stop-start would not work for that journey and the display would show low battery.
2022 HR-V Elegance, previously 2020 Jazz Crosstar

embee

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Re: Battery challenge 2016 jazz
« Reply #34 on: June 18, 2021, 04:02:54 PM »
Just throwing up some ideas here, not fully thought through so use as a basis for devising a system.

I understand the issue, and agree that a Li-ion battery is the most likely solution to being able to do the number of starts you need. The difference being that a Li-ion battery will accept charge at a vastly greater rate than a lead-acid so can recover very quickly.
Following on from some of the suggestions, I've been pondering whether a simple (relatively) dual battery system can be arranged.
Keep the lead-acid battery but don't use it for the starting current. Add a Li-ion battery which is used for starting.

Disconnect the cable to the starter solenoid from the lead-acid battery and fit it to the Li-ion +ve terminal. Connect the Li-ion +ve to the lead-acid +ve using a heavy duty "isolator" changeover relay (needs to be able to carry the max Li-ion charging rate, what do we guess, 40A fuse protected?). The link between batteries is "normally closed".
Take the starter signal wire from the starter solenoid and put it on the isolator relay coil. When energised by the ignition key going to crank position, it pulls the relay over to disconnect the link between the batteries, and a wire on the "normally-open" terminal then goes down to the starter solenoid to activate the starter. This means that the solenoid will only engage the starter motor once the 2 batteries are isolated and current comes from just the Li-ion one. Releasing the crank signal will de-energise the isolator relay and the batteries will be reconnected.

The big question is whether the Li-ion battery will be satisfactorily charged by the lead-acid based charging system.

A split charge relay unit might well be able to do the job for you, such as https://brocott.co.uk/split-charge-relays/  , it would need a bit of investigation. I'm guessing it won't allow discharge from the second battery (the Li-ion, what would normally be the "leisure" battery in a caravan etc) back into the vehicle system, but may be wrong. It may be able to do all the charge regulation you need.

Just some ideas ......................
« Last Edit: June 18, 2021, 04:05:22 PM by embee »

1643

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Re: Battery challenge 2016 jazz
« Reply #35 on: June 18, 2021, 08:07:40 PM »
Thank you for all the suggestions I’ll pass them on to my husband (who knows a little bit about what we’re talking about here, it’s getting complicated for myself personally)

1643

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Re: Battery challenge 2016 jazz
« Reply #36 on: June 20, 2021, 03:22:45 PM »
A quick update

2 days ago I used some power from battery (the lithium one) with engine off, discharging it partially. Yesterday after a few hours of driving the stop start activated a few times. That’s in line with the chart of different voltage curves for charged / discharged state between lithium and normal battery. There is still hope!

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