Author Topic: Pay per mile  (Read 2419 times)

John Ratsey

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2663
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: 2022 HR-V Elegance
Re: Pay per mile
« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2021, 06:42:34 PM »
GPS is easily blocked so I don't see how that could be used. A sealed odometer would be the only way to go.
Plus ANPR on roads where congestion charging is being used.
2022 HR-V Elegance, previously 2020 Jazz Crosstar

culzean

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8017
  • Country: england
Re: Pay per mile
« Reply #16 on: April 30, 2021, 07:53:49 PM »
GPS is easily blocked so I don't see how that could be used. A sealed odometer would be the only way to go.

Sealed odometer would need to know where the vehicle was because the main idea of road pricing is that some areas would be more expensive than others. Maybe transponders at roadside to give info would work.  GPS has privacy issues because it allows tracking of vehicle in real time.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Kremmen

  • Topic Starter
  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4574
  • Country: england
  • Civinfo interloper
  • Fuel economy:
  • My Honda: MY22 Jazz EX
Re: Pay per mile
« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2021, 05:43:03 AM »
If they try and use technology there will be a fiddle.

KISS and go back to taxing all cars based on type. Yes it penalises the low milers, like me, but is straightforward.
Let's be careful out there !

E27006

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 379
Re: Pay per mile
« Reply #18 on: May 01, 2021, 07:36:36 AM »
There is no simple solution,  it would be logical to tax a vehicle for its total  pollution, miles driven per annum and the emissions per mile, and then we need to allow for demographics,  less well-off people who drive older second hand cars which have lower mpg returns and higher pollution, yet I do not want the less well off  to be penalised by fuel taxation or deprived of their transport by fixed annual VED  duties.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2021, 07:38:42 AM by E27006 »

culzean

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8017
  • Country: england
Re: Pay per mile
« Reply #19 on: May 01, 2021, 11:52:19 AM »
There is no simple solution,  it would be logical to tax a vehicle for its total  pollution, miles driven per annum and the emissions per mile, and then we need to allow for demographics,  less well-off people who drive older second hand cars which have lower mpg returns and higher pollution, yet I do not want the less well off  to be penalised by fuel taxation or deprived of their transport by fixed annual VED  duties.

Well arguably people with older cars tend to do a lot less mileage - so less pollution even though vehicle may be classed as dirty.  Biggest polluters may well be company cars because they often do high mileages and  drivers do not pay for fuel - so no reason to drive carefully... Also many company drivers got PHEV for tax purposes but never charged the battery,  so went everywhere at 30MPG dragging the weight of a useless battery around.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

madasafish

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1953
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: 1.4 ES CVT -2012
Re: Pay per mile
« Reply #20 on: May 01, 2021, 01:32:18 PM »
GPS is easily blocked so I don't see how that could be used. A sealed odometer would be the only way to go.

Sealed odometer would need to know where the vehicle was because the main idea of road pricing is that some areas would be more expensive than others. Maybe transponders at roadside to give info would work.  GPS has privacy issues because it allows tracking of vehicle in real time.

Not on country roads: too many minor roads and liable to be damaged by vandals.

ANY system which relies on physical hardware on routes is NOT going to be effective and will be exorbitantly expensive..so Boris is bound to choose it. :-\

Kremmen

  • Topic Starter
  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4574
  • Country: england
  • Civinfo interloper
  • Fuel economy:
  • My Honda: MY22 Jazz EX
Re: Pay per mile
« Reply #21 on: May 01, 2021, 01:57:26 PM »
If they use a sealed odometer then when would they read it. MOT is no good as you're first isn't due to year 4.

Then you've got to retrofit or tax older cars more.

I still think any technology solution is expensive to implement and will be hackable.
Let's be careful out there !

culzean

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8017
  • Country: england
Re: Pay per mile
« Reply #22 on: May 01, 2021, 01:58:24 PM »
GPS is easily blocked so I don't see how that could be used. A sealed odometer would be the only way to go.

Sealed odometer would need to know where the vehicle was because the main idea of road pricing is that some areas would be more expensive than others. Maybe transponders at roadside to give info would work.  GPS has privacy issues because it allows tracking of vehicle in real time.

Not on country roads: too many minor roads and liable to be damaged by vandals.

ANY system which relies on physical hardware on routes is NOT going to be effective and will be exorbitantly expensive..so Boris is bound to choose it. :-\

Could be fitted to existing lamp posts and other tall structures, and would not be large as only short range required.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

springswood

  • Bob the Jazz
  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 455
  • Country: gb
  • Fuel economy:
  • My Honda: Mk1 Jazz GE3 1.4 Sport 2008
Re: Pay per mile
« Reply #23 on: May 02, 2021, 08:41:59 AM »
Makes fuel duty look a simple and targeted option to me. And I'm one of those on limited means doing 10k miles a year in an older car. You'd almost think every one is looking for the option where someone pays, just not me.

[Added] I appreciate fuel duty has its drawbacks and is not the only solution but for years now we've had the odd situation where the government wants to raise duty but won't because they caved in to some very effective protests years ago. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think it's a fixed amount per litre, not a percentage, so in effect the duty has been falling.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2021, 08:48:17 AM by springswood »
"Indecision is a terrible thing"
Or is it? What do you think?

culzean

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8017
  • Country: england
Re: Pay per mile
« Reply #24 on: May 02, 2021, 11:02:34 AM »
Makes fuel duty look a simple and targeted option to me. And I'm one of those on limited means doing 10k miles a year in an older car. You'd almost think every one is looking for the option where someone pays, just not me.

[Added] I appreciate fuel duty has its drawbacks and is not the only solution but for years now we've had the odd situation where the government wants to raise duty but won't because they caved in to some very effective protests years ago. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think it's a fixed amount per litre, not a percentage, so in effect the duty has been falling.

With electric vehicles and people charging at home a duty on fuel would not work - if you raise rate of VAT etc on electricity then everyone who uses electricity would be paying it... hardly fair for people without cars to subsidise car owners.   They will probably use smart meters ( smart meters would become mandatory ) and chips in cars to measure amount of charge going into vehicle ( the chip could communicate with smart meter either wirelessly, or via the charging cable or via mobile phone network ).  One thing is for sure the governments will not easily give up their 'cash cow' motorists - so they will wait until a 'critical mass' of people have bought BEV before unleashing their fiendish way of making up the shortfall from fuel duty and VED... could be that it will be even more expensive to run an electric car than an ICE one - watch this space.

PS - it has now been over 21 days since the fans on sticks contributed more than 5% to national grid,  today so far it is 1.5% ( 0.45GW ) - happy days. 
« Last Edit: May 02, 2021, 11:05:41 AM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

150234

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 76
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: 2003 Honda Jazz
Re: Pay per mile
« Reply #25 on: June 01, 2021, 04:41:07 PM »
What is wrong with the old system of road tax based on vehicle type, etc.

No expensive infrastructure required and they just bring EV cars into the equation. EV cars still need roads and road maintenance so should help pay for it.
Very true, and road maintainance will actually need to increase when EV's take over as they're actually heavier than ICE vehicle so damage the road more. While it's marginal per car, I bet it adds up when the damage done by all cars on the roads is taken into account.

nowster

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 944
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: 2021 GR3 Jazz EX i-MMD in Midnight Blue
Re: Pay per mile
« Reply #26 on: June 01, 2021, 04:49:29 PM »
VED goes into the general taxation pot. The "road fund" hasn't been used for roads since a nice Mr Churchill used it to balance his budget.

Tags:
 

anything
Back to top