Author Topic: Electricity generation. The pros and the cons.  (Read 28728 times)

nowster

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Re: Electricity generation. The pros and the cons.
« Reply #105 on: July 03, 2021, 01:58:45 PM »
To be fair to the present incompetents, the "carbon zero" targets were set about 15 years ago, before their time.

Something like HS2 is needed because of limited capacity on both the east and west coast main lines. It didn't need to be gold plated as it has been, and other less damaging routes could have been viable.

Boris the Clown is their best bet at the moment. Nobody on the Conservative front bench has the possibility of being as popular amongst the politically naïve as he is.

culzean

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Re: Electricity generation. The pros and the cons.
« Reply #106 on: July 10, 2021, 10:34:20 AM »
Interesting article about 'net zero' - nobody talking about the huge cost to taxpayers and consumers and the sheer unreliability of wind and solar,  and even heatpumps ( which work best when you need them least ).....

See attached PDF article,  because of low availability of present renewables, natural gas power stations will be needed for electrical supply for a long, long time, but not allowed to be used in the most efficient way - in domestic gas boilers.

Take a look at gridwatch site,  since Thursday wind has been around the 0.25GW level, almost indistinguishable from the X axis line on the graph  ???,  and this is happening too often, very often in winter when a cold 'high' settles over country for weeks on end ( 6 to 7 weeks is the longest I have seen without any meaningful input from the fans on sticks, and only a couple of hours a day from solar during winter, and that is without cloud cover).

« Last Edit: July 10, 2021, 10:40:30 AM by culzean »
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madasafish

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Re: Electricity generation. The pros and the cons.
« Reply #107 on: July 10, 2021, 04:50:15 PM »
Meanwhile,
Climate Change sceptics have gone very quiet. I wonder why?

Oh maybe because of this:

"Extreme heat is building in the United States, with forecasts of record-breaking temperatures in the states of California and Nevada.

It comes just weeks after another dangerous heatwave hit North America, and the region has experienced the hottest June on record.

California's Death Valley on Friday recorded a high of 54.4C (130F), with similar heat expected this weekend.

Millions of people in the US are under warnings of excessive heat"

"Canada is also bracing for extreme heat, though it is not expected to approach the temperatures seen at the end of last month when the village Lytton in British Colombia reached 49.6C, breaking the country's highest recorded temperature."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-57788118




culzean

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Re: Electricity generation. The pros and the cons.
« Reply #108 on: July 10, 2021, 05:09:27 PM »
Meanwhile,
Climate Change sceptics have gone very quiet. I wonder why?

Oh maybe because of this:

"Extreme heat is building in the United States, with forecasts of record-breaking temperatures in the states of California and Nevada.

It comes just weeks after another dangerous heatwave hit North America, and the region has experienced the hottest June on record.

California's Death Valley on Friday recorded a high of 54.4C (130F), with similar heat expected this weekend.

Millions of people in the US are under warnings of excessive heat"

"Canada is also bracing for extreme heat, though it is not expected to approach the temperatures seen at the end of last month when the village Lytton in British Colombia reached 49.6C, breaking the country's highest recorded temperature."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-57788118

No that is global warming, the religion discarded that name about 1998 when it had been getting colder for previous decade,  unabashed they found another name 'climate change' and this they hoped would cover every eventuality whether hotter, colder, wetter, dryer and allow them to point and say 'look that is climate change effect',  bit like a spread bet.

Now the EU has exempt private and business jets from greenhouse gas rules, the bizjet is the favourite transport of delegates attending the climate change conferences that are scattered all over the planet. The sheer hypocrisy is astounding.  Maybe the delegates know what is really happening and consider it OK to pump jet exhaust into atmosphere,  while plotting more and more carbon taxes on the proles...

[link removed by Admin]
« Last Edit: August 08, 2021, 11:16:19 AM by RichardA »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

JimSh

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Re: Electricity generation. The pros and the cons.
« Reply #109 on: July 10, 2021, 07:40:29 PM »
Interesting article about 'net zero' - nobody talking about the huge cost to taxpayers and consumers and the sheer unreliability of wind and solar,  and even heatpumps ( which work best when you need them least ).....

See attached PDF article, 

That would be written by this Charles Moore
"Two years after joining The Spectator as a political columnist, Moore became the magazine's editor in 1984, remaining there until 1990. Moore was given this role by the owner, John “Algy” Cluff, whose company Cluff Resources specialises in “support activities” for oil and gas extraction and is co-located with a number of climate change denial think-tanks at 55 or 57 Tufton Street."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Moore,_Baron_Moore_of_Etchingham

And John "Algy" Cluff

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/analysis-and-features/spotlight-algy-cluff-serial-oil-and-gas-entrepreneur-8451469.html

[link removed by Admin]

Edit added references to "Algy" Cliff

As you say "It's been going on for years"
« Last Edit: August 08, 2021, 11:16:05 AM by RichardA »

madasafish

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Re: Electricity generation. The pros and the cons.
« Reply #110 on: July 11, 2021, 06:02:02 AM »
""What we are now doing to the world … is new in the experience of the Earth. It is mankind and his activities that are changing the environment of our planet in damaging and dangerous ways. The result is that change in future is likely to be more fundamental and more widespread than anything we have known hitherto. Change to the sea around us, change to the atmosphere above, leading in turn to change in the world's climate, which could alter the way we live in the most fundamental way of all.
"The environmental challenge that confronts the whole world demands an equivalent response from the whole world. Every country will be affected and no one can opt out. Those countries who are industrialised must contribute more to help those who are not."

 November 1989

A certain scientist and politician said that : Mrs Thatcher.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/blog/2013/apr/09/margaret-thatcher-green-hero

Jocko

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Re: Electricity generation. The pros and the cons.
« Reply #111 on: July 17, 2021, 04:38:29 PM »
Today the route I was on took me through between two wind turbines on either side of, and close to, the road. The bright light and the blue sky made them quite mesmeric.

JimSh

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culzean

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Re: Electricity generation. The pros and the cons.
« Reply #113 on: July 20, 2021, 12:43:58 PM »
Smart Systems and Flexibility Plan
Future of National Grid.

https://www.proactiveinvestors.co.uk/companies/news/955445/national-grid-to-lose-control-of-uk-s-power-network-in--smart--energy-plan-955445.html

I hope this new body has magic spells similar to Harry Potter to summon up power from renewables ( how about 'ventus' to summon the wind ),  wind is loafing again today ( 0.6GW ) and has been for a while,  solar is OK today ( supplies more than biomass generation for about 8 to 9 hours a day in present summer heatwave ) but hardly makes a dent on UK consumption between October and March...  The only sources of reliable power we have in UK are Gas ( both for heating and CCGT electricity generation ) and Nuclear.  Hope we have signed up with Norway and Russia for some more gas pipes into UK  :(    I had to laugh about the 'keeping consumers energy bills affordable'.  You can have all the batteries you want connected to grid, but you need something to put into them.   For many years now huge amounts have been spent on wind turbines and solar,  relying of heavy subsidies from taxpayer.  If the wind blew strongly everywhere at once the number of installed turbines could supply 40% of demand,  but very often ( way too often for comfort ) the fans on sticks supply <10%,  and often <5%.  Thing is that the turbine operators get paid whether they generate or not,  and often get deliberately built in remote places without the infrastructure to connect to grid, and the operators still get paid 'because it is the grids fault'....
« Last Edit: July 20, 2021, 06:28:11 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

culzean

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Re: Electricity generation. The pros and the cons.
« Reply #114 on: July 21, 2021, 11:45:29 AM »
hope OVO* and other 'greenenergy' company customers not relying on wind today to power their air conditioning ( * whose electricity comes to your house down the same cables as 'non green' electricity LOL ).   Fans on sticks 0.19GW = 0.5% of demand,  solar down a few GW on yesterday as well due to hazy conditions today.    Lucky for you that if you sign up for green energy and the renewables not performing you still receive  dirty energy ( mainly from Gas CCGT , which is the backstop when green stuff stays in bed ). If the green energy customers only got power when green power was available they may have to decide what to turn off on many days of the year.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2021, 01:37:59 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

John Ratsey

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Re: Electricity generation. The pros and the cons.
« Reply #115 on: August 02, 2021, 08:30:57 AM »
UK hydropower (not the pumped version) is also well down from normal due to unusually dry weather during the past few months in NW Scotland. However, total non-pumped hydro capaciy is less than 1GW so it's a fairly small proportion of the total but the shortfall is similar to the amount of coal-powered generation during the past couple of months.
2022 HR-V Elegance, previously 2020 Jazz Crosstar

culzean

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Re: Electricity generation. The pros and the cons.
« Reply #116 on: August 07, 2021, 11:28:34 AM »
 Information Tribunal orders Committee on Climate Change to reveal Net Zero calculations

 London, 7 August 2021

The Information Tribunal has ordered the Committee on Climate Change (CCC) to publish the calculations behind its claim that the UK economy can be decarbonised at modest cost.
 
The CCC’s figures were presented to Parliament ahead of the Net Zero emissions target nodded through in June 2019 to enshrine it in law. The case was brought by Andrew Montford, the deputy director of the Global Warming Policy Forum.

The ruling, which dismisses almost all of the CCC’s arguments, comes after a two-year battle to obtain the cost calculations. Extraordinarily, the CCC’s case centred around a claim that it had erased and overwritten the relevant information by the time of the FOI request, just six weeks after the publication of the Net Zero report, and indeed changed and lost it further subsequent to the request. 
 
According to Mr Montford:
 
"By arguing that it has overwritten and erased the spreadsheet data, the CCC has essentially admitted that its internal processes are a shambles. This is not a competent organisation and Parliament needs to investigate as a matter of urgency. If they can’t even manage simple matters of data retention, what hope is there that they can prepare a plausible costing of a multi-trillion pound project such as the decarbonisation of the UK economy?”

During the case, the CCC revealed that their costing does not include any estimate for spending in 2020-2049, but only considered the residual amounts in 2050, after the bulk of the transition. This was not made clear to the MPs when they agreed to bring the Net Zero target into law, and it is likely therefore that MPs were misled.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

fashionphotography

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Re: Electricity generation. The pros and the cons.
« Reply #117 on: August 07, 2021, 01:19:06 PM »
all i know is a report a couple of tears back was stating at that time power stations were struggling and at their limits trying to keep supplies up due to the extensive demand with everything being recharged and demanding more electricity these days. from phone chargers to hoovers etc etc etc.. so how we think were ready for everyone to have electric cars is a bit beyond me.. also what happens with driving tests etc as 99% will be automatic

JimSh

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Re: Electricity generation. The pros and the cons.
« Reply #118 on: August 07, 2021, 02:41:44 PM »
Governments should have been promoting alternative sources of energy to fossil fuels decades ago.
Instead they chose the cheap, short-term unhealthy option.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salter%27s_duck

Edit added link to Salter's Ducks.
 I thought the cost was (deliberately) overestimated by a factor of 10 but perhaps my memory is playing tricks.

Second edit Somebody else remembers the same as I did.
"Apparently still not satisfied that they had killed the Duck, opponents of the project then produced figures overestimating capital costs by a factor of 10, massively underestimating the reliability of undersea cables, and claiming that in mass production each Duck would cost about the same as one prototype. After a long campaign to save the project, Professor Salter's team was forced to disperse in early 1987"

[link removed by Admin]
« Last Edit: August 08, 2021, 11:23:46 AM by RichardA »

culzean

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Re: Electricity generation. The pros and the cons.
« Reply #119 on: August 07, 2021, 04:30:52 PM »
Fossil fuels used for more than just energy, medicines, fertilizers and plastics, as well as roads made out of them ( to name but a few products ).  Mankind was much more unhealthy before we started using fossil fuels, dying from cold and infections, as well as starving ( coal tar soap and all the other disinfectants made from coal and oil ). If not for fossil fuels there would not be a tree left standing on the planet - which would be mainly desert.  Without fossil fuels there may not be many people left on the planet today to moan about fossil fuels.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2021, 04:35:09 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

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