Author Topic: Electric cars  (Read 700836 times)

culzean

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #465 on: November 10, 2017, 09:02:34 PM »
Any changes to the city's roads require re-scanning and update of this 3D map.  This is completely impractical for widespread use.
Presumably this is accomplished exactly the same way existing 2D sat nav paths are updated and refined by sampling the collective data fed back by the users, of course it helps the first one down any route to have seeded data just as the test vehicles are collecting, processing and re-using.  The strengths of autonomy is that knowledge will be shared - as soon as a couple of vehicles have gone by the skip on the road, every other car will be expecting it; the pedestrian hidden by the bus will be made known to vehicles behind by the first one to pass them.
--


TG

So stupendous quantities of data will be fed in real time to a central processing point and redistrubuted to autonamous vehicles in real time. In a country where rural areas have limited signal access and areas like tunnels, between mountains where there is none--- this is all going to be very challengeing . The current mobile network will look like a child's toy.. And when one local feed goes down, - which it will - what happens? All fall down?

You are talking investments which make mobile telecomms look like  a child's plaything.

+100

As usual there is loads of hype and expectation around at the moment,  the devil is in the detail - no infrastructure is available at the moment to talk between vehicles let alone allow the sort of thing TG suggests.  Those 3D road layout files are huge, its like a 3D video but with global locations and distances data included.

Anyone with a satnav has had dropouts around tall buildings,  and mobile phone apps are probably worse, including around mountains and in rural areas.

Self-driving vehicles,  a solution looking for a problem to solve,  1 death every 100,000,000 miles of 'human driving'  is a hard act to follow, chances are the control system will be programmed to protect occupants rather than pedestrians, so we are gonna need continuous armco along all our roads to shield the pavement. Most autonomous vehicle crunches so far (and there have been more than a few, in which the self driving vehicle is never to blame according to google) have been low speed affairs with more damage to pride of google than to vehicle,  but a crash at highway speed is another thing all together.  I would bet good money that the sensor system on these vehicles will have a hard time seeing potholes,  and they can cause major crashes.  I also bet that the sensors can't differentiate between a paper or plastic bag blowing in the road and a real obstacle,  something humans do without thinking.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2017, 09:24:37 PM by culzean »
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Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #466 on: November 11, 2017, 09:50:06 AM »
There were 1732 deaths on UK roads in 2016. If you can reduce that by 90% (the number of accidents caused by human error), you save 1558 lives.

culzean

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #467 on: November 11, 2017, 10:05:29 AM »
There were 1732 deaths on UK roads in 2016. If you can reduce that by 90% (the number of accidents caused by human error), you save 1558 lives.

Not if you replace those 'supposed' human errors and more by computer, software and sensor error.  It is pure supposition and conjecture at present to assume autonomous cars will be safer than Human drivers, there is no real data,  just a few highly supervised vehicles trundling around with no other auto cars to interfere with them.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/when-it-comes-to-safety-autonomous-cars-are-still-teen-drivers1/

Only time will tell,  and that time is certainly not now, that time will be in 40 years time when autonomous cars are more common on the roads.  Google, Uber et tal have been quick to blame humans for accidents up to now, but in certain cases when these companies swore that a human was in charge at the time some employees have spoken out to refute the claims and confirmed it was the auto vehicles fault.   We need honesty from these companies,  but corporate greed and honesty have never been comfortable bed-fellows in cut-throat business world.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2017, 11:20:12 AM by culzean »
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guest5079

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #468 on: November 11, 2017, 11:39:05 AM »
One way to save lives and the drinks industry is the reason it's not done in this country is make it NO alcohol in the blood. As some Scandinavian countries have done. Enforce the mobile telephone legislation and tighten up on the appalling driving standards of some.
Before you all shout foul, go out an pick up the pieces after an RTA, then shout foul if you still think this is draconian.
I suppose an EV can't ever be accused of drunk driving.

culzean

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #469 on: November 11, 2017, 12:20:44 PM »
One way to save lives and the drinks industry is the reason it's not done in this country is make it NO alcohol in the blood. As some Scandinavian countries have done. Enforce the mobile telephone legislation and tighten up on the appalling driving standards of some.
Before you all shout foul, go out an pick up the pieces after an RTA, then shout foul if you still think this is draconian.
I suppose an EV can't ever be accused of drunk driving.

I agree entirely about zero tolerance on blood alcohol,  I would also be very hard on any driver involved in fatal accident due to distraction by phone use in car - they would be charged with manslaughter and expect a sentence of 20 years minimum,  they have killed someone by their stupid selfish actions just as surely as if they had stabbed or shot them.

EV may have foreign things in its circuitry because it has been hacked / infected with a virus,  so maybe any EV involved in a shunt needs to have a virus check LOL
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madasafish

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #470 on: November 11, 2017, 02:24:45 PM »
One way to save lives and the drinks industry is the reason it's not done in this country is make it NO alcohol in the blood. As some Scandinavian countries have done. Enforce the mobile telephone legislation and tighten up on the appalling driving standards of some.
Before you all shout foul, go out an pick up the pieces after an RTA, then shout foul if you still think this is draconian.
I suppose an EV can't ever be accused of drunk driving.

My solution for driving whilst on the mobile is simple: confiscate the phone and destroy the sim card. The resulting aggro for the offender trying to put their phone together again  (Yes I know many do back up.. but I suspect a minority) might have a significant deterrent effect..

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #471 on: November 11, 2017, 03:25:17 PM »
Google, Uber et tal have been quick to blame humans for accidents up to now, but in certain cases when these companies swore that a human was in charge at the time some employees have spoken out to refute the claims and confirmed it was the auto vehicles fault.
The discussions for the Electric and Autonomous Vehicles Select committee were particularly enlightening. To be allowed on UK roads the autonomous vehicles must be on an approved list, and to qualify for that list the data must be available from all the vehicle sensors, for accident investigation. The data will also show when the vehicle was being driven by a human and when it was under autonomous control. Another thing to come out of the discussions was that the autonomous mode could only be used on Motorways and Dual Carriageways. And the car would have the final say in when autonomous mode could be selected. So no "Shoot. I'm about to crash. Bang it in autonomous mode".
Obviously, the regulations can be changed when, well in the future, Level 5 vehicles are proven safe and effective.

sparky Paul

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #472 on: November 11, 2017, 11:38:35 PM »
Enforce the mobile telephone legislation and tighten up on the appalling driving standards of some.
Before you all shout foul, go out an pick up the pieces after an RTA, then shout foul if you still think this is draconian.

The problem is that the punishment depends upon the outcome, and not the offence.

For the many thousands that routinely get away with speeding, drink driving or mobile use, an unlucky few hundred might get a fine and penalty points, or in the case of drink driving, a ban. One or two out of this number might cause an accident, or even kill someone. They might be vilified and get 10 years in prison, but the initial offence that caused, or contributed to, that terrible outcome is exactly the same offence committed by the hundreds that get fines.

It might sound extreme, but if people thought that drink driving, using a mobile, or even speeding, would result in a prison stretch, how many would risk it?

All a bit off topic, but anything that can reduce the scope for human error, including autonomous vehicles, has to be a good thing. Of course, they would have to be proven to be at least as safe as a human driver, and that should be entirely possible.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2017, 10:01:42 AM by sparky Paul »

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #473 on: November 12, 2017, 12:51:25 PM »
Tesla Model S Shooting-brake. Looking forward to seeing this finished.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=7&v=Ydb9TW3Bmh8

peteo48

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #474 on: November 12, 2017, 03:16:56 PM »
One way to save lives and the drinks industry is the reason it's not done in this country is make it NO alcohol in the blood. As some Scandinavian countries have done. Enforce the mobile telephone legislation and tighten up on the appalling driving standards of some.
Before you all shout foul, go out an pick up the pieces after an RTA, then shout foul if you still think this is draconian.
I suppose an EV can't ever be accused of drunk driving.

I'd go along with a reduction to 20 mg which some countries have adopted. This is a quarter of the current legal limit and caters for those borderline cases where a small trace of alcohol is present but not at any dangerous levels. A few years ago (2014 in fact) we were on holiday in the Czech Republic which has, I gather, a zero limit but a sliding scale of penalties and with an element of police discretion.

Certainly our limit is too high. If an average sized man drank 3 pints of low strength beer - like a 3.8% bitter - he would likely squeak under our limit. There is no way he would be safe to drive though.

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #475 on: November 12, 2017, 04:50:25 PM »
Scotland is 50 mg. I don't even have a drink the evening before a morning drive now. Just not worth it.

culzean

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #476 on: November 13, 2017, 10:34:54 AM »
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/bu_1004_charging_an_electric_vehicle
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/electric_vehicle_ev

These are interesting articles, to allow for battery degradation the batteries are oversized to start with but the depth of charge and discharge are limited, as the battery ages these limits are moved to account for loss of capacity,  the owner therefore thinks the battery is not actually losing capacity as the range may not decrease much,  but more of the battery is being bought into usage, downside is that this extra depth of usage degrades the battery more rapidly.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2017, 10:57:33 AM by culzean »
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Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #477 on: November 13, 2017, 12:30:19 PM »
Doesn't really matter how they go about governing the life of battery as long as it works and you get the life they quote. Works for me.

culzean

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #478 on: November 13, 2017, 03:15:06 PM »
Trouble is oversizing the battery adds weight, which means it needs more power to move the vehicle. Bit like carrying 20 gallons of petrol but only having access to 12.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

John Ratsey

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #479 on: November 13, 2017, 08:55:52 PM »
Trouble is oversizing the battery adds weight, which means it needs more power to move the vehicle. Bit like carrying 20 gallons of petrol but only having access to 12.
Which reminds me of my hybrid Jazz. Only once did I see the battery charge level drop below half. Honda appear to have been very protective of the lead acid hybrid battery used in that vehicle. That's good for longevity - no one here has reported needing a battery replacement - but not so good for fuel efficiency.
2022 HR-V Elegance, previously 2020 Jazz Crosstar

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