Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums
Honda Jazz Forums => Honda Jazz Mk3 2015 - 2020 => Topic started by: Hebden on October 28, 2015, 06:49:04 PM
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It seems Honda will only supply a Space Saver and these are on back order. My nearest dealer's parts person was perplexed about when these would arrive - he suggested December and then back-tracked to late January. Said there was a long order list.
However, A bit northerly a Honda dealer with a discount parts website is selling a full size alloy wheel with Bridgestone tyre and fixings for £189 - free next day delivery. Talking to them today they have put this together themselves from Honda components and are sending them all over the world. Lots in stock. Sounds like a winner to me if you don't want a spacesaver.
If all goes to plan tomorrow with car change I shall be ordering one!
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Could you post the web address so others can have a look? ;)
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£189 with alloy??? not too bad actually
if you are after non-alloy why not look on eBay and buy a space saver wheel or if you want full size even then it wouldn't be more than £69.
space saver for 2008-15 with Jack and Wheel wrench thing
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SPACE-SAVER-SPARE-WHEEL-HONDA-JAZZ-2006-2015-AND-JACK-KIT-/231733675546?hash=item35f467461a:g:T~oAAOSwwbdWJ9lY (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SPACE-SAVER-SPARE-WHEEL-HONDA-JAZZ-2006-2015-AND-JACK-KIT-/231733675546?hash=item35f467461a:g:T~oAAOSwwbdWJ9lY)
full size 15inch spare wheel
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SPARE-WHEEL-TO-FIT-HONDA-JAZZ-15-195-60-R15-4-STUD-UN-USED-DUNLOP-TYRE-/191718110294?fits=Car+Make%3AHonda%7CModel%3AJazz&hash=item2ca34a3456:g:D7UAAOSwYHxWInU8 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SPARE-WHEEL-TO-FIT-HONDA-JAZZ-15-195-60-R15-4-STUD-UN-USED-DUNLOP-TYRE-/191718110294?fits=Car+Make%3AHonda%7CModel%3AJazz&hash=item2ca34a3456:g:D7UAAOSwYHxWInU8)
which you can pair with the genuine Jack if you want for £30
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HONDA-FRV-2004-2009-TOOL-KIT-JACK-SET-WHEEL-BRACE-JACK-GENUINE-/281837454229?hash=item419ed24395:g:dxkAAOSwl9BWKz8n (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HONDA-FRV-2004-2009-TOOL-KIT-JACK-SET-WHEEL-BRACE-JACK-GENUINE-/281837454229?hash=item419ed24395:g:dxkAAOSwl9BWKz8n)
If you tell me the size / model of your car I can find your specific size.. the top links are just examples
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Wasn't sure it was permitted to post links - could be thought of as advertising...
http://www.coxmotorparts.co.uk/2016-jazz-spare-wheel-options-c-24_1044_1048.html (http://www.coxmotorparts.co.uk/2016-jazz-spare-wheel-options-c-24_1044_1048.html)
We have a 16" spacesaver with the EX which will be going to the dealer as trade in tomorrow. Wrong size though as the SE is 15".
Of course should have taken it out and sold it on ebay. But sometimes the trauma of deciding about changing a car, should it be an old model pre-reg EX or the new model SE wipes all common sense away. If all proceeds as expected tomorrow will order the spare tyre from Cox. We've bought replacement Honda mats from them before next day free delivery.
Seems like its a mixed bag from all the comments and reviews. Hope there's enough to love.
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Wasn't sure it was permitted to post links - could be thought of as advertising...
http://www.coxmotorparts.co.uk/2016-jazz-spare-wheel-options-c-24_1044_1048.html (http://www.coxmotorparts.co.uk/2016-jazz-spare-wheel-options-c-24_1044_1048.html)
I would note that while this is an alloy wheel it isn't the same style as the alloy wheels on the car. Nonetheless, it will look a lot better on the car than a space saver.
My dealer has Honda's space saver on order for me but I'm tempted to send him this link.
John
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Avoid the dealer prices first ask fro abetter deal then check new steel wheel + new tyre from mytyres.co.uk scroll for new wheel/tyre combination. I've used them for many years, you maybe able to get cash back via quidco.com
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Thanks for the advice. Not my local dealer though so would be buying from the spares department either over the internet or telephone.
I've had a look at mytyres they don't appear to be listing tyres and wheels for the 2015 'new' jazz.
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I'm not expert but I would not be surprised if the spec for a Mk3 steel rim is the same as for a Mk 2. Perhaps someone else may be able to confirm?
However, if the alloy rim style in the link matches the exact style of those on your car, spoil yourself and buy one (I would).
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Decided to get one. Due to be delivered Monday.
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Spare tyre fitted into the well perfectly. Able to get jack and other bits around it. However as others have noted the floor of the boot now needs support with the removal of the black polystyrene tool box etc. I imagine it you get the space saver kit you get a tray to go above the tyre which provides this. Hmm. I've seen some people are using plywood - any other good solutions?
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Since my dealer couldn't forecast when the official space saver I ordered with the car would show up he gave me a refund and I bought the Cox Motor Parts alloy wheel mentioned above. Fitting the wheel in the hole was straightforward (the fixing bolt was included with the wheel).
Supporting the boot floor was somewhat more challenging and made more interesting because the wheel does not sit horizontally but is tilted towards the front of the car. It's easy to use suitably sized bits of scrap wood to support the floor over the wheel (make sure that one of the bits of wood is under the joint in the middle of the floor). but this leaves the font section of boot floor unsupported so I had to fit a piece of wood under this area and provide a leg to support it from the bottom of the spare wheel cavity. I hope the photos will explain what I did - it looks fine once the boot floor is down.
Perhaps the reason for the delay in the arrival of the offical part is that Honda are still trying to design a more elegant solution.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Another reason not to bother with the Mk3 for a couple of years till they sort all this out. My wife's new i10 they've gone back to space savers from inflation kits!
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Recently had a call from the dealer letting me know the spare wheel kit has arrived.
My question is will the 15" spacesaver from my MK2 fit my MK3 so that I just have to buy the foam topper.
Or do they just sell them together so it will mean me maybe having two wheels the same size? The dealer intimated that it all came together & could not be split. Are they upselling or is that the case?
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Your Mk 2 wheel may fit the Mk 3,the Honda spacesaver come as a complete kit,jack and wheelbrace, the wheel is secured to the boot floor and a foam insert, similar to the one supplied with the inflation repair kit,fits over the wheel to support the boot floor.My dealer told me the reason for the delay was Honda had some issues (faulty?) with one of the components in the kit.
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Cheers, looks like I will just have to buy the whole kit then & ebay the other wheel.
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Having just bought a new Jazz with optional spacesaver KIT I can confirm that the kit includes all the stuff any normal human car driver would expect (Jack, wheelbrace etc).
These bits do not come with the foam package. I know this because on delivery the car didn't yet have the spacesaver as they were on back order. As I was trading in a previous model Jazz (with 15" wheels instead of 16" as on the new Jazz EX) the dealer said I could take the old spacesaver from my old car because it would fit (you can run a 15" spacesaver on a car with the others being 16" apparently) but he said to be sure and take the jack etc. There was no jack or wheelbrace supplied as they also give you an electric pump thingy that has a port for adding the crazy foam when reinflating.
So be careful if you are buying a spacesaver spare wheel only. You probably won't get the other bits you need.
Better to find that out now than when you have a puncture at 1:30am in the pouring rain in the middle of nowhere.
I just can't believe manufacturers can get away with the crazyfoam option. They say that its a way of saving weight and thus being "Green".
So when you've used the foam option for a minor puncture just to get you home you then have to consign the perfectly good tyre to landfill and buy a replacement. Would somebody explain the ecological argument for that please?
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The wheel for my 2016 Jazz is 4 hole 15" 6J Alloy with 100mm pitch circle diameter, 45mm offset, spigot diameter 56.1mm. This is in line with previous advice on this forum. The 2016 Jazz has 6J Alloys whereas earlier models have 5 1/2 width. The space saver wheel dimensions appear to be the same.
Yesterday I purchased a 15" space saver spare for £20 from a local car breaker. It was clean & completely unused with Michelin tyre. I had previously bought a new Draper 53093 scissor jack and a wheel master wrench. The whole set up is a perfect fit & match.
By coincidence the breakers yard had just got in a 12 yr old Rover 45. The Rover 45 was based on a Honda design. Out of interest I checked the spare, it was identical to the one I had just purchased. However the Rover jack may not be a good fit with a 2016 Jazz.
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Ricardo the spacesaver kit I got came with a foam insert to support the boot floor as my previous post on this topic
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Ricardo the spacesaver kit I got came with a foam insert to support the boot floor as my previous post on this topic
Your Mk 2 wheel may fit the Mk 3,the Honda spacesaver come as a complete kit,jack and wheelbrace, the wheel is secured to the boot floor and a foam insert, similar to the one supplied with the inflation repair kit,fits over the wheel to support the boot floor.My dealer told me the reason for the delay was Honda had some issues (faulty?) with one of the components in the kit.
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I asked my local dealer to order a 'spare wheel kit' two weeks ago for my EX and phoned them yesterday for any news, guess what? No record of my order!! What a load of pillocks.
Hopefully they have now placed my order.
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There must be an increasing number of people who, like me, have bought a Mk III and kept the spacesaver from their Mk II (ex rover 45 in my case). What we need is the spacesaver foam cover for a Mk III without the wheel and tyre, so we can put our spare wheel under the boot floor and have the proper support for the floor. So come on Honda, or someone else - there's a market for you!
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There's a need for two sizes of foam spacer: (i) to sit on a spacesaver wheel and (ii) to sit on a full-sized wheel.
Once the weather has warmed up I'm planning to make a plywood cover for the spare wheel well which will be independent of the wheel type. I'm thinking of making it to fit flush with the boot floor and therefore require some support around the edge of the spare wheel well. There is also the easier alternative of a sheet of plywood over the whole of the boot floor.
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Approximately how much would I expect to pay from my dealer for a space saver spare for my 2016 SE
Also is there a suitable. Steel Wheel alternative that could be bought elsewhere.
Thanks.
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My dealer priced the space saver kit at £217.20. You can get a full-sized alloy (but it's not the matching pattern but I wonder how it would take people to notice) for less at http://www.coxmotorparts.co.uk/2016-jazz-spare-wheel-options-c-24_1044_1048.html (http://www.coxmotorparts.co.uk/2016-jazz-spare-wheel-options-c-24_1044_1048.html). This won't encumber you with the operating restrictions imposed by a space saver. The kit includes the bolt to fix the wheel in the well.
There other space savers which will fit. There's more discussion about this somewhere in the Mk 2 forum. I've got an unused ex-Rover 200 or similar wheel (about £25 from ebay about 4 years ago) in my garage which you are welcome to have for £5 plus the cost of delivery.
Or you can get a full sized steel wheel with tyre from the tyre specialists which usually do wheels with winter tyres but I expect they would sell a single wheel.
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Thanks for the helpful information and for your for your kind offer for your spare wheel.
I am waiting for my new SE Jazz which I will be receiving soon. It will replace my 2011 Jazz which has been an excellent vehicle the best I have owned so far. Hoping that the new car is as good.
Not having a spare in my 2011 model Jazz did bother me as it was occasionally in the back of my mind if I had a puncture. I guess I was lucky that this didn't happen as I have not ever used the foam repair kit.
In the event of puncture damage being beyond the capability of the supplied repair kit fixing it. Would Honda Roadside Assistance be able to source a suitable tyre and get it repaired at the roadside or would they arrange a tow to a tyre fitter to replace it.
Also is the tyre size for the SE Jazz quite a common size therefore likely to be stocked at most tyre specialists.
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Not having a spare in my 2011 model Jazz did bother me as it was occasionally in the back of my mind if I had a puncture. I guess I was lucky that this didn't happen as I have not ever used the foam repair kit.
My motivation for carrying a spare is that I much prefer driving on rural roads. However, while the mobile phone network might cover 95% of the population it doesn't cover a lot of rural areas. A spare wheel is cheaper than a satellite phone.
I haven't had a puncture for many years which just makes me think that one is getting overdue so I need to be prepared.
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@ John Ratsey I would like to take you up on the offer of your space saver spare wheel if you still have it?
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@ John Ratsey I would like to take you up on the offer of your space saver spare wheel if you still have it?
I've sent you a message.
John
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Not having a spare in my 2011 model Jazz did bother me as it was occasionally in the back of my mind if I had a puncture. I guess I was lucky that this didn't happen as I have not ever used the foam repair kit.
My motivation for carrying a spare is that I much prefer driving on rural roads. However, while the mobile phone network might cover 95% of the population it doesn't cover a lot of rural areas. A spare wheel is cheaper than a satellite phone.
I haven't had a puncture for many years which just makes me think that one is getting overdue so I need to be prepared.
emergency roadside services must be fed up of being called out for tyre related problems since spares were removed from cars. Mind you even when spares were common I know a lot of people who either couldn't be ar53d / didn't want to get hands dirty / or didn't have a clue to even try and fit the spare, so called AA, RAC etc anyway. Problem with cars like Audi TT even with spacesaver there is nowhere to put the full sized wheel if you take it off except passenger seat - and some people want AA to take it back home for them.
I am not happy not to have a spare as sods law says punctures always happen in worst possible place or at worst possible time.
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The only trouble with buying a wheel/jack etc is that you can only fix the wheel into the well, everything else is loose, and then there is the problem of supporting the boot liner.
A wheel kit solves all these problems.
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The only trouble with buying a wheel/jack etc is that you can only fix the wheel into the well, everything else is loose, and then there is the problem of supporting the boot liner.
A wheel kit solves all these problems.
Not true: There is space on the left side of a full-sized spare wheel sufficient for jack, spanner, pump and the other tools supplied with the car. I've got a cloth and a yellow waterproof jacket for packing to stop things rattling. My photo further up this thread shows the wheel in the well with the yellow jacket (the other tools hadn't been put in when I took the photo).
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Moulding with urethane foam is fairly straightforward so long as you don't let it stick to anything you don't want. You could line the well with plastic and wrap up & fit the items you wanted with formers or spacers then pour your moulding foam in around them. A lid with a hole in will allow the excess to escape. It's easy to carve when set but can expand 20x or so don't use too much.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rROaEsajuaQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rROaEsajuaQ)
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TG
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Moulding with urethane foam is fairly straightforward so long as you don't let it stick to anything you don't want. You could line the well with plastic and wrap up & fit the items you wanted with formers or spacers then pour your moulding foam in around them. A lid with a hole in will allow the excess to escape. It's easy to carve when set but can expand 20x or so don't use too much.
That's a good idea worth trying out: Make some form of mould over the spare wheel and line with cling film then fill with expanding foam filler from the local hardware store. Finally trim to be flush with the boot floor.
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Just spoke to my Honda dealer and they are saying that they think some spare wheel kits may be in early April!
What is happening to Honda lately?
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Just spoke to my Honda dealer and they are saying that they think some spare wheel kits may be in early April!
What is happening to Honda lately?
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There are a couple of 'Official Honda Dealers' on Ebay selling quite a few of the kits right now, I'm not sure how the prices stack up against your dealer. It might be worth a look even if it is for getting a deal/bargain
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Thanks DWF I have seen those sites and they work out a little cheaper than the Honda 'kit' but I like the Honda kit neat and tidy, and I am not worried about the speed restrictions of the space saver wheel.
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I still do not understand why Honda do not have these 'kits' in stock, after all it is not a new car, it has been around a couple of years, they have mudflaps, carpets, door garnishes in stock so why not the spare wheel?
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I still do not understand why Honda do not have these 'kits' in stock, after all it is not a new car, it has been around a couple of years, they have mudflaps, carpets, door garnishes in stock so why not the spare wheel?
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nobody keeps stock any more - stock is right at the top of words accountants hate - stock is waste, it is 'money sitting idle' - everything these days is 'just in time' or 'overnight delivery' from a central warehouse. I work for first tier car component manufacturer, car makers don't mind us keeping stock but insist we only deliver enough per day / per model for that days requirements - stock takes up room on their site and floor space costs money.
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Agreed about the dealers but Honda central should have them.
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Hooray, collected my 'spare wheel kit' today only took them two months.
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Hi All
Just to let you all know Honda space saver for the mark 3 are now in stock I had mine today . K L J
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Hi,
My 2011 jazz has no spare wheel and the space is carpeted and used for extra storage, why do you need to support rhe floor if you bung a spare wheel in? There is no extra support in there and no storage box,
Chris
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why do you need to support rhe floor if you bung a spare wheel in?
The Mk III is different, with a weaker boot floor. Annoying!
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My 2011 jazz has no spare wheel and the space is carpeted and used for extra storage, why do you need to support rhe floor if you bung a spare wheel in? There is no extra support in there and no storage box,
The Mk 3 does have weak boot floor - it's some thin board which folds at the middle and at the back edge. It's fine if supported by the lump of foam which holds the took kit or covers the spare wheel (the well is deeper than a full-sized wheel, never mind the space saver). Either of these are effectively a waste of some potentially useful underfloor storage.
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My 2011 jazz has no spare wheel and the space is carpeted and used for extra storage, why do you need to support rhe floor if you bung a spare wheel in? There is no extra support in there and no storage box,
The Mk 3 does have weak boot floor - it's some thin board which folds at the middle and at the back edge. It's fine if supported by the lump of foam which holds the took kit or covers the spare wheel (the well is deeper than a full-sized wheel, never mind the space saver). Either of these are effectively a waste of some potentially useful underfloor storage.
Perhaps the extra space - over and above that needed for a standard full sized spare wheel - is to allow for variants with lower profile and hence wider wheels.
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I've carpeted the sub boot, really annoyed they changed the design. The last one was great. I kept my spare from the mk1 Jazz (in the shed). It was fine on the mk2 despite only being 14". Dealer told me wheels were different on mk3, for example mk2 alloys won't fit the mk3, so not sure if my spare will fit?
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I think the Mk3 alloys have a different spoke design compared to the Mk 2 but have the same hub mounting. That might be the dealer's reason for saying they are different.
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Would that affect they way they drove? The SE and EX have different style alloys.
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This is the spare I bought http://www.coxmotorparts.co.uk/genuine-honda-jazz-full-size-alloy-spare-wheel-tyre2016-p-5132.html (http://www.coxmotorparts.co.uk/genuine-honda-jazz-full-size-alloy-spare-wheel-tyre2016-p-5132.html). It looks like a Mk 2 wheel. I have put it alongside a Mk 3 wheel but haven't tried fitting it on.
I can't envisage how a different wheel appearance will affect road handling. The tyre is Bridgestone so that might handle slightly differently to the Michelin ES which came with the car. I had originally planned to get a space saver but there's plently of room in the well for a full-sized wheel which doesn't have the usage constraints of a space saver.
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This is the spare I bought http://www.coxmotorparts.co.uk/genuine-honda-jazz-full-size-alloy-spare-wheel-tyre2016-p-5132.html (http://www.coxmotorparts.co.uk/genuine-honda-jazz-full-size-alloy-spare-wheel-tyre2016-p-5132.html). It looks like a Mk 2 wheel. I have put it alongside a Mk 3 wheel but haven't tried fitting it on.
I can't envisage how a different wheel appearance will affect road handling. The tyre is Bridgestone so that might handle slightly differently to the Michelin ES which came with the car. I had originally planned to get a space saver but there's plently of room in the well for a full-sized wheel which doesn't have the usage constraints of a space saver.
Does it come with a 185/60 or 175/65 tyre. I really want to know if a set of these alloys will fit my new Jazz, dealer being really unhelpful!
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Does it come with a 185/60 or 175/65 tyre. I really want to know if a set of these alloys will fit my new Jazz, dealer being really unhelpful!
The tyre is 185/60 and the rim is 15 x 5 1/2J. It is a Honda wheel - I've been reading the markings on the inside of the hub.
So this looks to be the right tyre for the Mk 3 on the Mk 2 hub. Not ideal, but better than a space saver as a spare.
You would need to get the opinion of others about the wisdom of putting on a full set of these wheels.
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The new Jazz16" wheel is same size as MK2 - wheel I asked Honda - see attached. Re-attached after modification to removed personal details
I imagine the 15" wheel the same - why doesn't someone ask Honda?
[attachment deleted by admin]
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I bought a mk3 alloy on eBay (a bargain at £45) and bought a new tyre from Kwikfit (exactly the same as the Dunlops on the car) for another £70
I used the polystyrene spare wheel filler as a template and cut out a board from 9mm mdf
Let me see if I can upload pictures
BTW we are on our third Jazz having one of each generation and I have the mk2 space saver spare wheel for sale if anybody is interested
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Now that I can see the wheel pic has loaded, here are the pics of the mdf floor.
I mada cutout in it for the handbook (it is a penny-pinching step backwards to have removed the holder under the nearside rear seat) and also one for the locking wheel key
I plan to get some black in-car audio 'carpet' to finish this off
I'm rather pleased with how this worked out
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Nice job modelvic would you like to do one for me. :-) :-)
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Thanks! I do have some spare mdf.........
..... and a space saver spare.........
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brilliant fix for the boot floor - I am still tasking Honda with a fix, in progress.
They do not seem to appreciate the problem
Can I use your design to indicate to Honda a fix - maybe not made from mdf but will let them know extent of problem and need for a fix?
Indeed is it woth approaching a manufacturer to have marketed?
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I like your handy work. What did you use as a template to cut the shape from?
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Happy for you to show it to the Honda dealer
I used the polystyrene that came with the car as the template; just drew runs it and cut the mdf with a jigsaw
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tank you, letter to Honda will be published here soon
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Question.
Space saver rims/hubs all seam to be yellow/orange, is this a legal requirement or can I get my hub painted chrome/silver.
Any ideas guys!
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Space saver rims/hubs all seam to be yellow/orange, is this a legal requirement
Also seen in black & red, so I doubt it. Just seems like a good idea to warn others you might not have great stopping / cornering.
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TG
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Regarding boot floor, here is my email to Honda Customer Services I promised to publish, just gone awaiting reply.
"I did visit my dealer for their view on the boot floor with a full size spare wheel installed.
They agreed it was a problem but as Honda only provide a space saver wheel with a support for the floor there is nothing they can do to help me.
I would like to firstly request you to supply me with an email address for Honda Customer Services at the headquarters in Japan. I do have a postal address but emails so much slicker.
The reason I want this communication with Honda’s Headquarters is because I just do not believe that senior Honda personnel would put out a car with such an astonishingly poor feature.
They would also be in my opinion alarmed about the extent of concern this feature is causing loyal, long term Honda owners.
The extent to which this subject is being discussed online would also be concerning to them.
I am attaching some excerpts from online forums that very loyal Honda owners use to showcase their cars, show modifications and generally be very proud to own a Honda. There are sections in one forum even talking about Honda powered lawn mowers, bikes, generators, is the feeling regarding owner pride in their Honda equipment becoming apparent?
I have installed a ply board cover with re-enforcements on top of my spare wheel, see first attachment - my boot floor support.
Second attachment is a screen-shot from an online forum – clubjazzblock fix. Several blocks of wood used. Comment on other member regarding purchase of new car a bit worrying also
Third attachment is a word document with pictures of an MDF sub floor support which even makes a space for both the owner’s manual and the locking wheel nut. This is such a very well designed and made item that could be used as a template for production of a ‘proper’ moulded floor support.
I really do not think that Honda want cars running about with wooden made up pieces installed by owners to varying quality standards.
The image of a Honda car and the company itself is not best served by allowing this to happen.
I respectfully request you bring this to the attention of more senior personnel in Honda UK and Japan, I would appreciate email addresses for myself to address them directly."
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Just wanted to report my first day experience of the standard Honda space saver kit in my new today SE Mk3.
To my surprise and pleasure I have been able to fit tow rope, jump leads, electric compressor, fire extinguisher, biggish torch, first aid kit, red triangle, bulb kit, and many smaller things...under the floor leaving all the standard polystyrene blocks in place and with very little difficulty.
The boot floor is well supported.
The bigger items have fitted round the outside of the spare wheel without preventing the polystyrene holder from sitting down flush.
(I mostly carry a lot of this stuff around to help others rather myself, although I did leave the hazards on overnight once which flattened my my Mk 2 battery)
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Good info Mike, thanks for that.
I mostly carry a lot of this stuff around to help others rather myself
I will be sure to call on you if I get a flat :D
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I agree that there's plenty of room to put things around the spare under the polystyrene cover. The front part of the topside of the cover has various cavities in it that look as though they're designed for specific items, like the tool storage area. However, I think it's more a case of designing it so that the structural integrity is not compromised. I've been able to fit in the electric compressor and the handbook in the top, under the boot floor, as well as a camera and binoculars etc, so it's proving quite useful, as there's less storage in the Mk 3 cabin than in the Mk 2.