Author Topic: Driveshaft - warranty fix? - SOLVED  (Read 8058 times)

metallicpearl

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Re: Driveshaft - warranty fix?
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2019, 01:15:13 PM »
As Jocko says, it's normal to find a bit of movement in the joints, it certainly doesn't look excessive and I would be very surprised if that's the source of your knocking.

Much more likely to be a bad suspension joint, bush or top mount somewhere, droplinks are always the obvious place to start. Knocks can sometimes hard to diagnose, but anybody worth their salt should be able to find it.

I know you shouldn't be having to do this with a warranty, but get the car on a flat surface and rock it with the roof sills, you (or an assistant) might be able to hear something clicking. If you can replicate it that way, it's in the suspension somewhere. If you want to go further, the assistant can reach and grasp each joint tightly, or wedge a bar in to stop it moving - when the noise goes away, you have found the culprit.

Is it less noticeable in wet weather? Less/more noticeable on bends? How about low speed over road humps? Can you feel anything through the steering wheel or the floor? Is it a hard metallic rattly knock, or a softer thump noise?

I've tried rocking the car (with and without weight in it) and this doesn't produce the sound. Both dealers apparently checked all the suspension parts and couldn't find anything amiss, which is why I resorted to looking myself. My wife's Toyota driveshafts dont move from side to side at all which is why I'm thinking this might be abnormal. It also produces a metallic sound, which is characteristic of the knock I can hear when driving, which seems to happen when hitting sudden dips in the road surface.

Jocko

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Re: Driveshaft - warranty fix?
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2019, 01:32:31 PM »
I had a knock caused by a collapsed joint on a wishbone.



The circular joint at the rear of the dark blue Y piece.

sparky Paul

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Re: Driveshaft - warranty fix?
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2019, 01:35:13 PM »
Most of the driveshafts on cars with a few miles on will have some movement in the joints, and will make a noise when you pull them about. I just popped out and had a tug of the shafts on our 2008 with 170,000 miles on it, there is far more movement in them than yours.

The reason you can hear and feel bad suspension joints so well is because you have the weight of the car pulling and pushing on them when switching from compression to tension, it gives them a real whack. Steering joints make less noise, but they still have the cornering forces acting on them.

metallicpearl

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Re: Driveshaft - warranty fix?
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2019, 03:20:12 PM »
Most of the driveshafts on cars with a few miles on will have some movement in the joints, and will make a noise when you pull them about. I just popped out and had a tug of the shafts on our 2008 with 170,000 miles on it, there is far more movement in them than yours.

The reason you can hear and feel bad suspension joints so well is because you have the weight of the car pulling and pushing on them when switching from compression to tension, it gives them a real whack. Steering joints make less noise, but they still have the cornering forces acting on them.

Do yours knock as well?

coffeecup

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Re: Driveshaft - warranty fix?
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2019, 05:50:07 PM »
They are definitely supposed to move in and out, however there should be no movement up and down, i doubt very much if your noise is the drive shafts, and i am very supersized you have had to have new gearbox bearings, did they solve the earlier problem?

Like Jacko says, would think it is suspension/joint problem.

metallicpearl

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Re: Driveshaft - warranty fix?
« Reply #20 on: September 29, 2019, 06:12:45 PM »
They are definitely supposed to move in and out, however there should be no movement up and down, i doubt very much if your noise is the drive shafts, and i am very supersized you have had to have new gearbox bearings, did they solve the earlier problem?

Like Jacko says, would think it is suspension/joint problem.

Yes, it solved the gearbox noise, which was a grinding/metallic spinning in neutral - it's as good as silent now.

I have let Honda UK know what is happening as I've now had 2 dealers acknowledge the knocking noise but fail to find the cause - the last one said I need to wait for it to get worse.

I had a Hyundai Getz before this, which I took from 38k to ~120k and I didn't have the cavalcade of issues I've had with this. It was supremely reliable.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2019, 06:23:57 PM by metallicpearl »

culzean

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Re: Driveshaft - warranty fix?
« Reply #21 on: September 29, 2019, 06:49:40 PM »
Drive shafts are splined so that they can float in and out a bit to take up movement as driveshaft angle changes as the suspension works so will have a small amount of end play.  As i posted earlier if you are worried by anything be sure to put it in writing to the dealer.

Have a look at all the photos of a jazz driveshaft here...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Honda-Jazz-III-Ge-1-2-Drive-Shaft-ABS-Left-Front-/173838796134
« Last Edit: September 29, 2019, 07:30:39 PM by culzean »
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coffeecup

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Re: Driveshaft - warranty fix?
« Reply #22 on: September 29, 2019, 09:22:05 PM »
Well, it could be a constant velocity joint on the driveshaft, after all it must have had some stick to need the gearbox bearings done. No way of knowing without putting new one in. Looks like you just have to keep pestering them to fix it, after all they have acknowledged the noise so you do have proof of a fault.

mike

sparky Paul

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Re: Driveshaft - warranty fix?
« Reply #23 on: September 29, 2019, 09:43:18 PM »
Most of the driveshafts on cars with a few miles on will have some movement in the joints, and will make a noise when you pull them about. I just popped out and had a tug of the shafts on our 2008 with 170,000 miles on it, there is far more movement in them than yours.

The reason you can hear and feel bad suspension joints so well is because you have the weight of the car pulling and pushing on them when switching from compression to tension, it gives them a real whack. Steering joints make less noise, but they still have the cornering forces acting on them.

Do yours knock as well?

No, it's absolutely silent.

I know exactly the up/down movement you are describing, and I understand it is a bit disconcerting, but you can feel this movement on most CV joints - more so the inners, which are simple sliding tripods.

I'll have a jiggle at the shafts in our 2015 Jazz tomorrow if you like, for comparison. It's done around 50k miles. Other half has been away in it for a few days, so I haven't had access to it.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2019, 10:08:51 PM by sparky Paul »

metallicpearl

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Re: Driveshaft - warranty fix?
« Reply #24 on: September 30, 2019, 11:12:12 AM »
Most of the driveshafts on cars with a few miles on will have some movement in the joints, and will make a noise when you pull them about. I just popped out and had a tug of the shafts on our 2008 with 170,000 miles on it, there is far more movement in them than yours.

The reason you can hear and feel bad suspension joints so well is because you have the weight of the car pulling and pushing on them when switching from compression to tension, it gives them a real whack. Steering joints make less noise, but they still have the cornering forces acting on them.

Do yours knock as well?

No, it's absolutely silent.

I know exactly the up/down movement you are describing, and I understand it is a bit disconcerting, but you can feel this movement on most CV joints - more so the inners, which are simple sliding tripods.

I'll have a jiggle at the shafts in our 2015 Jazz tomorrow if you like, for comparison. It's done around 50k miles. Other half has been away in it for a few days, so I haven't had access to it.

Any input greatly appreciated- thanks for your help.

sparky Paul

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Re: Driveshaft - warranty fix?
« Reply #25 on: October 02, 2019, 06:35:53 PM »
Sorry about the delay, what with the weather and stuff to do, but I got to have a looky at the driveshafts today. There is movement in the outer joints, not as much as the old Jazz, but they sound exactly the same as yours when you tug them about.

One other point I would make. When you compare them to the driveshafts on other cars, you have to make sure you have relieved the tension on the driveshafts by knocking the car out of gear and dipping the clutch once before checking - otherwise you may not feel any movement in the joints at all.

I still don't think it has anything to do with your driveshafts.

sparky Paul

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Re: Driveshaft - warranty fix?
« Reply #26 on: October 03, 2019, 11:19:40 AM »
Drive shafts are splined so that they can float in and out a bit to take up movement as driveshaft angle changes as the suspension works so will have a small amount of end play.  As i posted earlier if you are worried by anything be sure to put it in writing to the dealer.

Have a look at all the photos of a jazz driveshaft here...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Honda-Jazz-III-Ge-1-2-Drive-Shaft-ABS-Left-Front-/173838796134

Just a small point, but it's not the splines that give you the movement in the driveshaft - the splines are fixed securely into the hub and the gearbox. The extension in the shaft occurs entirely within the inner CV joint, which is a sliding spider - three roller bearings in the form of a tripod which slide in and out of the outer housing.

culzean

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Re: Driveshaft - warranty fix?
« Reply #27 on: October 03, 2019, 02:34:33 PM »
Drive shafts are splined so that they can float in and out a bit to take up movement as driveshaft angle changes as the suspension works so will have a small amount of end play.  As i posted earlier if you are worried by anything be sure to put it in writing to the dealer.

Have a look at all the photos of a jazz driveshaft here...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Honda-Jazz-III-Ge-1-2-Drive-Shaft-ABS-Left-Front-/173838796134

Just a small point, but it's not the splines that give you the movement in the driveshaft - the splines are fixed securely into the hub and the gearbox. The extension in the shaft occurs entirely within the inner CV joint, which is a sliding spider - three roller bearings in the form of a tripod which slide in and out of the outer housing.

Thanks,  I knew there had to be longitudinal movement in the shaft, was looking back at rear drive propshafts that used to slide in and out of gearbox final drive shaft on splines.  Here is a good description of constant velocity joints.

https://everything.explained.today/Constant-velocity_joint/
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

springswood

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Re: Driveshaft - warranty fix?
« Reply #28 on: October 04, 2019, 08:02:35 AM »
Quote
Thanks,  I knew there had to be longitudinal movement in the shaft, was looking back at rear drive propshafts that used to slide in and out of gearbox final drive shaft on splines.  Here is a good description of constant velocity joints.

https://everything.explained.today/Constant-velocity_joint/

Fascinating, and amazing the description has no diagrams.
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Or is it? What do you think?

culzean

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Re: Driveshaft - warranty fix?
« Reply #29 on: October 04, 2019, 08:59:13 AM »
Fascinating, and amazing the description has no diagrams.

If you look at third link down in notes and references at bottom of page you get this..

http://what-when-how.com/automobile/universal-joints-automobile/
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

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