Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums
Honda Jazz Forums => Hybrid => Topic started by: Ozzie on April 15, 2020, 10:27:44 AM
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Hiya,
Hopefully everyone is staying safe and well.
My Hybrid hasn't been used for 3 weeks, so I decided to start the car, however the battery is dead. So I jump start it and overnight its dead again. So I am looking for a new battery. It appears that I need battery code 054 however when I go to buy one via RAC (only place I can find one) it says its not appropriate for stop-start cars. I know the Hybrid does auto-stop, so now I am wondering what other Hybrid users have fitted when replacing their battery??
Many thanks, stay safe.
Quick Update
Following a bit of research and a few phone calls it seems I need either a type 054 AGM or 054 EFB battery, both allow for stop/start.
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Jazz Hybrid has neither an AGM nor EFB battery. As it does not turn the engine over to start it normally with the 12volt battery, it uses the hybrid motor and the high voltage battery. The 12 volt battery is a normal flooded battery.
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Jazz Hybrid has neither an AGM nor EFB battery. As it does not turn the engine over to start it normally with the 12volt battery, it uses the hybrid motor and the high voltage battery. The 12 volt battery is a normal flooded battery.
This may be a silly question . . . . if the car starts with the hybrid motor and high voltage battery, why does it start with a jump start to the 12v battery?
Admittedly all the search engines say the type 054 is the one to use, its just the stop/start that has thrown me.
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This may be a silly question . . . . if the car starts with the hybrid motor and high voltage battery, why does it start with a jump start to the 12v battery?
All electric cars need the 12v battery to control the high voltage battery. If the 12v battery is flat a jump start will allow the 12v to switch the hybrid battery.
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I have done some further research on the Varta Battery website and it seems upgrading to AGM/EFB does it no harm, so I may still go down that avenue if its a non-starter tomorrow.
Thanks for the comments.
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Don’t know whether this is much help, but my Jazz EX has stop/start and it is fitted with the following OEM battery:-
Yuasa B24(JIS) 12v, 50AH, 490CCA
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This may be a silly question . . . . if the car starts with the hybrid motor and high voltage battery, why does it start with a jump start to the 12v battery?
The 12V battery is used to start the engine when you turn the ignition key. Once the engine is running and the ECU is sure there's juice in the hybrid system's battery then that, using the IMA system, is used to restart the engine when in stop start mode. That's why you get the instant response when the engine and vehicle are stopped - the IMA motor both starts moving the vehicle and gets the engine turning over. Fuel then gets added to boost the available power. A non-hybrid vehicle with stop-start has a lag in response as the starter motor has to wake up the engine before the vehicle can move.
I believe that the Mk 4 Jazz still has a 12V battery, presumably to protect against the risk that the vehicle happens to be stopped and parked up when the hybrid battery has a low state of charge.
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Hiya,
Hopefully everyone is staying safe and well.
My Hybrid hasn't been used for 3 weeks, so I decided to start the car, however the battery is dead. So I jump start it and overnight its dead again. So I am looking for a new battery. It appears that I need battery code 054 however when I go to buy one via RAC (only place I can find one) it says its not appropriate for stop-start cars. I know the Hybrid does auto-stop, so now I am wondering what other Hybrid users have fitted when replacing their battery??
Many thanks, stay safe.
Quick Update
Following a bit of research and a few phone calls it seems I need either a type 054 AGM or 054 EFB battery, both allow for stop/start.
Eurocarparts.com may have your battery and they do delivery.
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Tayna are also still delivering batteries, my colleague got one last week.
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Hiya,
Hopefully everyone is staying safe and well.
My Hybrid hasn't been used for 3 weeks, so I decided to start the car, however the battery is dead. So I jump start it and overnight its dead again. So I am looking for a new battery. It appears that I need battery code 054 however when I go to buy one via RAC (only place I can find one) it says its not appropriate for stop-start cars. I know the Hybrid does auto-stop, so now I am wondering what other Hybrid users have fitted when replacing their battery??
Many thanks, stay safe.
Quick Update
Following a bit of research and a few phone calls it seems I need either a type 054 AGM or 054 EFB battery, both allow for stop/start.
Eurocarparts.com may have your battery and they do delivery.
I have found Eurocarparts pretty expensive with batteries, and they don't stock a big range ( at least by us ) Tayna are cheap and have great service - and they are still delivering batteries.
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I have done some further research on the Varta Battery website and it seems upgrading to AGM/EFB does it no harm, so I may still go down that avenue if its a non-starter tomorrow.
Thanks for the comments.
I have had a couple of Varta batteries on motorbikes in the past and they did not last long ---- will not be buying another one anytime soon.. never had a problem with Yuasa.
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It gets weirder ! ! !
So yesterday, I jump start the car again, leave it ticking over for 30 minutes, then blast it down the dual carriageway for 30 minutes. Last night it started first time, this morning it starts first time. The only thing different is we disconnected a usb lead that has been there for 2 years, but then the car hasn't been left for 3 weeks before, so the next query is, can a usb lead that's not connected to any devices, drain a 12v battery in 3 weeks?? Or drain it low enough not to start??
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A USB lead supplies 5v. Therefore there is regulator circuitry between the 12v battery and the USB. Now if the USB is live all the time I would imagine there is some tiny drain in the regulator circuit but unless this regulator circuit is only switched on by the insertion of the USB cable, cable in or out should make no difference.
(Electro-acoustic guitars are only "switched on" when the cable is plugged in.)
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/39/37/8d/39378d3d942f5415e2451a73c904fd7d.png)
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Power to the USB port and accessory socket should be disconnected when the key is in the zero position (or removed). That's an easy thing to check by connecting a phone to the cable and see if it starts to charge without the key in the ignition. I believe that the OBDII port remains alive so a Bluetooth dongle in that port would leak power.
The trip down the dual carriageway might have encouraged the vehicle to do some proper battery charging. There's too much clever technology lurking the background which is aimed at minimising the alternator generation (which will slightly impact fuel economy) and consequently might not put enough effort into ensuring that the battery is fully charged. Using jump leads to start means that the ECU won't know that the battery is discharged.
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Power to the USB port and accessory socket should be disconnected when the key is in the zero position
I know the accessory circuit is disconnected but not having a USB on my Mk 1 I cannot speak to that.
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It gets weirder ! ! !
So yesterday, I jump start the car again, leave it ticking over for 30 minutes, then blast it down the dual carriageway for 30 minutes. Last night it started first time, this morning it starts first time. The only thing different is we disconnected a usb lead that has been there for 2 years, but then the car hasn't been left for 3 weeks before, so the next query is, can a usb lead that's not connected to any devices, drain a 12v battery in 3 weeks?? Or drain it low enough not to start??
You need to externally re-charge your battery.
Idling the vehicle will actually just discharge your battery, not unless you put some load on the system, e.g. turning the headlamps on will it actually make any attempt to charge the battery, you can confirm this by actually monitoring the battery voltage while its running, it will stay around the 12.4v resting voltage rather than seeing around 14.5 volts.
Even driving a vehicle will not necessarily create a charge sufficient to last.
When a 12v battery gets into a discharge state it will take a burst of higher voltage (Often up to 16 volts) to break down any sulphation of battery, this is what the modern smart battery charger does, but the car itself cannot do this.
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Thanks everyone, in the absence of any electrical testing equipment, I will chance it to jump leads and regular usage for now. I think I may have saved myself £90 meantime.
Thanks everyone.
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I have done some further research on the Varta Battery website and it seems upgrading to AGM/EFB does it no harm, so I may still go down that avenue if its a non-starter tomorrow.
Thanks for the comments.
I have had a couple of Varta batteries on motorbikes in the past and they did not last long ---- will not be buying another one anytime soon.. never had a problem with Yuasa.
The OE battery on my Jazz is made by Varta. It is now 8 years and several months old and doing well.
Son's Yaris had a Varta battery from new. That died at eight years old this month...
The OE battery on our 2003 Yaris was Yuasa and lasted 11 years..
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Thanks everyone, in the absence of any electrical testing equipment, I will chance it to jump leads and regular usage for now. I think I may have saved myself £90 meantime.
Thanks everyone.
Well that didn't last long !
The battery was drained again and struggled to turn the engine, so I have had it replaced, and fingers crossed that's it !
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I apologise in that I am a bit late to the party and your issue looks to be resolved, but I thought I'd chime in if somebody was to read this thread in the future.
When I bought my Jazz Hybrid, it was standing at the dealers and the battery was completely shot, so after some research, I bought a regular YUASA YBX5054 (40Ah / 340CCA) battery for £46.91 delivered, they are about that price now. I can report that I have had absolutely no issues with the battery since installing it more than 12 months ago. AGM batteries are dear and I don't think you need one.
And in terms of battery maintenance, for as long as I can remember, I have always hooked up each one of our cars to a car battery charger and re-conditioner, once every quarter, for an overnight charge session. The result is that our oldest car, an old diesel from 2001 which we bought in 2010, is still running its original battery with no issues and this is not a car that gets used much at all, maybe 3,000 to 4,000 miles a year. :o
In my view, the Swedish company CTEK make the best battery chargers. I have a CTEK MXS 5.0, which sells for about £65 and slightly less if buying from eBay. It has saved me several batteries and even resuscitated batteries I assumed were paper weights.
So I really do advise, if you can afford to splash out, get yourself a CTEK and especially in cold harsh winter, stick on the battery overnight a couple of times.
CTEK website: https://www.ctek.com/uk/education/car-battery-chargers
:)
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Hi Ozzie et al,
My 2011 Jazz Hybrid won't start/fire up.....it's just silently inert.(key position 3) but the usual dash lights do come on (key position 2).
On turning the key to pos 3 the message "CHECK SYSTEM!" appears accompanied in repeating sequence by the ABS, Airbag, and Brake sustem synbols in AMBER.
I suspect the problem is the original12V battery (yes I know 9 years old!!) finally failing to recharge and not allowing the ECU to engage the hybrid battery system to whizz up the engine to start
Did this happen to anybody else when their HYBRID 12V battery began to fail?
I've ordered a YUASA VBX 5054 BATTERY from TAYNA £45.86 delivered and I'm hoping that simple replacement cures the problem ???
Thanks in adavance for any feedback on this.
Dave C
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I've never heard of anyone on here having a Hybrid battery fail.
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I suspect the problem is the original12V battery (yes I know 9 years old!!) finally failing to recharge and not allowing the ECU to engage the hybrid battery system to whizz up the engine to start
The hybrid Mk 2 Jazz has a traditional starter motor which does the initial engine starting. Once the engine is feeling comfortable and the stop / start becomes active then the IMA motor does the restarting. This arrangement was probably to protect against the main hybrid battery not having enough charge - it's a nickel-based battery with a relative high self-discharge.
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Hi Ozzie et al,
My 2011 Jazz Hybrid won't start/fire up.....it's just silently inert.(key position 3) but the usual dash lights do come on (key position 2).
On turning the key to pos 3 the message "CHECK SYSTEM!" appears accompanied in repeating sequence by the ABS, Airbag, and Brake sustem synbols in AMBER.
I suspect the problem is the original12V battery (yes I know 9 years old!!) finally failing to recharge and not allowing the ECU to engage the hybrid battery system to whizz up the engine to start
Did this happen to anybody else when their HYBRID 12V battery began to fail?
I've ordered a YUASA VBX 5054 BATTERY from TAYNA £45.86 delivered and I'm hoping that simple replacement cures the problem ???
Thanks in adavance for any feedback on this.
Dave C
Almost certainly the 12v battery. 9 years is near the end of lifespan of normal batteries (not Bosch - 5-6 years).
It could be the hybrid battery cooling fan blocked with fluff etc but then the car would run without any hybrid battery power.
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What happened to DFConnelly is what happened to my 2014 HX Jazz Hybrid.
Below is my contact notes entry for this car:-
6/6/19 car would not attempt to start and made a long beep and showed amber warning for check system, ABS, brakes and airbags. I noticed that the electric windows didn’t work too. So I checked all the fuses. checked battery voltage and that was only 9v, so I connected the Ring booster pack and the ignition worked okay with no beeping or warnings and then it started okay. So low normal car battery voltage can cause faults and a no start.
This happened 3 times within about a week. I had the AA test the 12V battery and they replaced the battery under warranty. All sorted.
You’ll see that this car has no traditional starter motor. All starting and charging is carried out by the electric motor sandwiched between engine and gearbox.
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You’ll see that this car has no traditional starter motor. All starting and charging is carried out by the electric motor sandwiched between engine and gearbox.
Did you look under the bonnet? The hybrid Mk. 2 I owned had a conventional starter motor which would always be used to initially start the engine. The IMA system took over once the engine was warm and the system was confident that there was enough charge in the IMA battery (it's an NiMH battery so prone to self discharge - see specs near the bottom of https://hondanews.eu/eu/lv/cars/media/pressreleases/1523/honda-jazz1 ). I'm fairly sure there's also a 12V alternator with the whole IMA system electrically separate from the normal 12V electrics.
Things have changed with the 2020 hybrid Jazz which does use the hybrid system motor for starting. However, the big hybrid battery uses lithium technology which has a very low self discharge and the battery management system likes to maintain at least 20% charge at all times (and the handbook says run the car for at least 1/2 hour every 3 months to add some more charge). However, the new hybrid still has a 12V battery to supply the 12V electrics but this battery gets charged from the HV electrical system.