Author Topic: Automatic Headlights separate topic  (Read 28921 times)

csp

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Automatic Headlights separate topic
« on: September 26, 2015, 07:32:23 PM »
Automatic Headlights on the Mk3 Jazz are not logical and need a latching off position, I think the problem warrants a separate topic.

I have tried setting the customization delay to zero and the lights still still on after I turn the ignition off. I do not want the headlights to stay on every time after I have turned the ignition off it is unnecessary.

I agree with John Ratsey that there should be a fixed off setting not an non latching off position.

Every time I put the car away in the garage the lights come on and stay on for at least 15 seconds after turning off the engine, it infuriating to have to turn the switch to off each time. Today I got back in the car and the lights were on before I started the car, I am not sure if I had flicked the switch to turn the lights off when I parked the car and inadvertently turned the lights to the on position instead. 

I will probably contact Honda as my dealers showroom is a pain to get to and the answer I got was they all do that and you just have to flick the switch to off!

The Forum could do with a way of raising issues and providing feedback to Honda.

John Ratsey

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Re: Automatic Headlights separate topic
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2015, 08:49:55 PM »
You have identified another annoyance with the headlights which I thought could be tamed in the settings. However, I've just re-read the handbook and the options are to change the time delay before the lights go off, but, as you indicate, without the ability to stop the lights from turning on in the first place (getting into the car via the passenger door may be a work-around  ;D). The need for this external courtesy light feature depends on circumstances but could have been implemented using the DRLs to reduce the battery drain.

My main complaint, as documented in another thread (http://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=7356.0), is that the auto-headlights tend to come on in circumstances when an intelligent driver would consider that the headlights are unnecessary, particularly since the car has DRLs. I told my dealer that I will allow a week for them getting a positive response from Honda UK before I write to the Honda UK boss (http://www.ceoemail.com/s.php?id=8964) complaining that the car is defective because the "off" position on the light switch doesn't work properly.

Now that a few more forum members have got their new Jazzes could they please contribute to this particular discussion. Are you, or are you not, happy with the headlight behaviour?
2022 HR-V Elegance, previously 2020 Jazz Crosstar

JazzandJag

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Re: Automatic Headlights separate topic
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2015, 05:34:13 AM »
I would agree that the system behaves exactly as others have described. It seems that as well as the dusk sensor, the lights also respond to a sudden change in light level, hence the lights coming on when passing under trees etc. However under these circumstances I see other vehicles with headlamps on as well, so this problem does not seem to be restricted to Honda. I did find that the lights went off again fairly quickly (say 30 sec or less) when back out in the sunshine again. 

To me this is more a minor irritation than a major concern (so far!)
« Last Edit: September 27, 2015, 05:37:35 AM by JazzandJag »

John Ratsey

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Re: Automatic Headlights separate topic
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2015, 10:15:10 PM »
One reason why I am intenting to pursue this matter strongly is that an annoyance that I perpetually had with with hybrid (switching from assist to charge while going up a long hill) was fixed for the Honda Insight http://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=3019.msg32910#msg32910. Sensibly, Honda should have joined the dots and issued a software update for the hybrid but my dealer assured me that there have been no updates.

I suspect my complaints to my dealer never got passed up the line, so this time I'm making more fuss.
2022 HR-V Elegance, previously 2020 Jazz Crosstar

csp

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Re: Automatic Headlights separate topic
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2015, 10:42:35 AM »
If you are not happy with the Automatic lights and have not voted yet in the Poll about this please see the Poll and vote. Thanks to the 6 other members who have already voted.

edam

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Re: Automatic Headlights separate topic
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2015, 04:23:01 PM »
In the brochure it states "Dusk sensing auto lights".

John Ratsey

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Re: Automatic Headlights separate topic
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2015, 05:36:12 PM »
In the brochure it states "Dusk sensing auto lights".
Well spotted.

The Concise Oxford Dictionary defines "dusk" as "the darker stage of twilight" which, by my reckoning means one can't see very clearly without lights.

That the auto lights come on in my dealer's workshop means that the workshop is inadequately well illuminated for them to be able to competently work on the vehicles. That's strange, since I considered the workshop was quite bright so it appears that Honda's definition of dusk differs from the norm.
2022 HR-V Elegance, previously 2020 Jazz Crosstar

edam

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Re: Automatic Headlights separate topic
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2015, 05:40:09 PM »
I was going to add a comment but thought "lets see what happens"

culzean

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Re: Automatic Headlights separate topic
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2015, 06:10:18 PM »
That the auto lights come on in my dealer's workshop means that the workshop is inadequately well illuminated for them to be able to competently work on the vehicles. That's strange, since I considered the workshop was quite bright so it appears that Honda's definition of dusk differs from the norm.

It may be the colour temperature (degrees Kelvin) of the light in the workshop rather than the quantity of it that triggers the auto headlights.  The human eye automatically adapts to different colours of light without a problems and people probably find the amount of light in the workshop OK,  but the reason digital cameras have 'white balance' settings is that the light imaging chip needs to be told what colour the ambient light is (or in my case just leave it on AWB auto white balance).
Colour film used to be sold as either daylight or tungsten to allow for the difference and if daylight film was used in tungsten lighting it had a horrible yellow cast over the photo.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2015, 06:11:52 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

John Ratsey

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Re: Automatic Headlights separate topic
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2015, 06:43:18 PM »
This is what the workshop looked like according to my dash cam.

There's a combination of lights and skylights. It's not as bright as outside but I can't see a need for headlights to either see or help being seen by others.



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2022 HR-V Elegance, previously 2020 Jazz Crosstar

John Ratsey

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Re: Automatic Headlights separate topic
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2015, 08:30:42 PM »
An update on the auto headlights saga:

My dealer sent me the attached document which is said to explain the auto headlights operation. It provides some insight into the auto lights behaviour. However, the document's properties show it was originally prepared in 2012.

The dealer also added that Honda Technical had stated "the operation of the headlights you have described is correct and is European legislation and all new vehicles will be the same, not just Honda. This cannot be overridden."  However, when I asked him for a specific reference to a requirement for auto headlights (as opposed to DRLs) he responded saying that he was just quoting the information provided by Honda. I have been unsuccessful in finding an European requirement denying drivers the opportunity to turn off their headlights when the vehicle is in motion. I'm not sure whether Honda Technical have misunderstood the question or are trying to deflect the issue with some confusion between DRLs and headlights.

I've also done a little further research. The Fit handbook http://techinfo.honda.com/rjanisis/pubs/OM/AH/A5A1515OM/enu/5A1515OM.pdf explains how the auto headlights works on the US car and, on the page numbered 123, mentions the integration with the wiper behaviour, which I have observed but is not acknowledged by Honda UK. Also, the first illustration on page 121 clearly shows the light switch in the Off position (but so do the figures on pages 166 and 169 of the UK Jazz handbook).  I have also found this discussion http://www.fitfreak.net/forums/3rd-generation-2015/91087-auto-headlamp-sensitivity.html. It seems that the Fit shares the over-sensitive auto-lights but I also get the impression from the discussion that the drivers have the option of selecting Off.

The next step is to compose my missive to Philip Crossman to draw his attention to the problem of over-sensitive auto-lights which is exacerbated by the absence of a fully functioning off position on the light switch and seeking his advice as to how this problem can be rectified.

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« Last Edit: October 03, 2015, 08:34:57 PM by John Ratsey »
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RichardA

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Re: Automatic Headlights separate topic
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2015, 06:54:27 PM »
The Forum could do with a way of raising issues and providing feedback to Honda.

Honda UK follow us on Twitter and I tweeted the automatic lights poll to Honda UK so they're aware of it if they checked their Twitter notifications.

guest5643

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Re: Automatic Headlights separate topic
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2015, 08:28:40 PM »
Went to refuel today,bright morning not dull, pulled under the canopy at the petrol station Auto Headlights came on,swiched engine off lights remained on,refuelled,went to pay,returned to car, lights still on,start up and drive away lights remained on for at least two minutes,I hope there is a high output alternator fitted to cope with the odd behaviour of the headlights.When the really dull winter days are upon us the headlights will be on permanently,I think only solution will be to drive on sidelights during the day,I've got myself a trickle charger,looks like it will get plenty of use during the winter as I mainly do short distances.My last VW polo headlights/rear lights (DRL's) were on permanently with no option to turn them off so I had to keep switching to sidelights during the day.

edam

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Re: Automatic Headlights separate topic
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2015, 10:49:55 PM »
I looked at a HRV and the lights could not be set to off but on the Civic they can . I think the order on the Civic was OFF-SIDE - AUTO which is different to the Jazz

John Ratsey

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Re: Automatic Headlights separate topic
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2015, 12:50:17 PM »
I attach the reply I received from Honda UK regarding the headlight behaviour. They don't acknowledge there is any problem.

So, where next? Consumer's Association? BBC Watchdog? Any suggestions?

In my opinion, there is the basic question of fitness for purpose.

For those who haven't been following this subject, there is a related poll at http://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=7408.0.

[attachment deleted by admin]
2022 HR-V Elegance, previously 2020 Jazz Crosstar

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