Struggling to turn over on the starter, any ideas?

[LemoneyF]

Blokes;

2003 Honda Jazz, CVT, 166k kms. 

Symptoms: starter wont turn over the engine, and draws huge current trying to do so. Starter motor replaced but no luck. It will barely turn over with the spark plugs removed, the accessory belt loosened and the gearbox in neutral.  Its like theres massive mechanical drag in the system somewhere.  I believe the starter is functioning as it should.

Ive disconnected every non essential electrical system, have an excellent battery, good earths and a jump to another car. 

Any ideas? I just cant imagine whats caused something like this to happen, and this isnt my first rodeo.  I come to the forum experts in the hope ive missed something! A seized bearing is my best guess. 

Why go to the effort you ask?  sentimental value, car has been in the family since new, is my old car and currently belongs to my cousin.   

TIA. 

[Marco1979]

A seized bearing would sound probable, but it might also be that the cvt does not go into neutral (it stays ‘in gear’ so to say).
A shot bearing happens while driving in most cases and you will notice. Cvt not disconnecting can happen when parked, so less obvious to notice.

Good luck!

[Jocko]

Level ground, car in neutral, and see if you can push it. If not then the CVT is not going into neutral. If the CVT is going into neutral, with the plugs out have you tried turning the engine by hand? If it turns then it is not a seized bearing.
What sort of km has it done? Has it been regularly serviced? It is a Honda. I would not expect a seized bearing unless it has done phenomenal km, or the servicing has been skimped on.

[Lord Voltermore]

How long has it been sitting unused?  Could the pistons be constricted in the bores.  Rusted even  (do you have damp air in Oz?  )    Maybe some  diesel or light oil down each  spark plug hole and allowed to soak for a while would help it turn over better.  But a bit kill or cure.   

[HertsHonda]

2020 : MG B GT has 'sat' in garage since about 1990 waiting 're-build' (one can dream!!) - removed water pump, rad & alternator + plugs -  engine turned over with big spanner on crank pulley.

[Jocko]

Just noticed you had stated the km. 103,000 miles is barely run in for a DSi engine. Highly unlikely that it is a mechanical problem with the engine. That CVT has a starter clutch so that may not be clearing.

[madasafish]

Elimination process:
1. Is it gearbox?  Test trying to push car with gear lever in neutral. If it moves, not gearbox.
2. Not gearbox. Test trying to turn engine - gearbox in neutral- with all plugs removed. If engine turns not engine.
3. If neither engine or gearbox, then starter, starter cables/earths or battery.
4. Charge battery: If no turn then  wiring.
5. Check wiring. Undo and reconnect earths and battery cables.

[HertsHonda]

@LemoneyF

Don't know what the practicalities of the following are; but how about removing starter motor, try rotating by hand then re-connected to vehicle wiring - then try spinning on starter switch.
Take precautions when using battery power - might escape from your hands! OR get VERY HOT!

[Lord Voltermore]

The fact you've said "good earths" in plural suggests you know what you are doing.   But   are you entirely sure you have checked  the connection  resistance of  every high amp wire, at both ends.  Live at battery end and where it goes to the solenoid and/ or starter motor ,  earth /neutral at battery,to  body work and any earthing lead to the engine, both ends.  ? A damaged or missing earthing strap to the engine is not uncommon. 

Rather than a jump to another car  have you also tried a jump lead from the cars own  battery negative terminal direct to the engine block to eliminate the possibility of a poor earth return ? 
I wouldnt recommend  a jump lead direct from the starter motor to the battery  positive terminal as this is much more risky, due to sparks, risk of fire, blowing delicate electronics ,instant motor activity etc.   

[LemoneyF]

Thanks all for the replies.  This is what specialist forums are for. 

That CVT has a starter clutch so that may not be clearing.

A seized bearing would sound probable, but it might also be that the cvt does not go into neutral (it stays ‘in gear’ so to say).

Elimination process:
1. Is it gearbox?  Test trying to push car with gear lever in neutral. If it moves, not gearbox.

After a brief read, I can smell a rat here.  I strongly suspect gearbox issues, and the car had the dreaded CVT shudders even years ago.  The car has been poorly maintained to my knowledge.  The car is in neutral and can be pushed freely, could it still be a serious lockup in the starter clutch? 

But   are you entirely sure you have checked  the connection  resistance of  every high amp wire, at both ends.  Live at battery end and where it goes to the solenoid and/ or starter motor ,  earth /neutral at battery,to  body work and any earthing lead to the engine, both ends.  ? A damaged or missing earthing strap to the engine is not uncommon. 

Im 99% sure the problem isnt electrical- thats where I started.  I have jumped the starter externally (using external 12V on the relay and contacts) with the same result. 

Ill look into any means of resetting the start clutch digitally, but it all seems to rely on the engine running (and hydraulic pressure presumably being applied internally)

[Jocko]

Measure the voltage drop between the starter motor body and the battery negative post during starting. Try the same between the starter motor connection and the positive post. This should eliminate an electrical issue or show which side has a poor connection. The starter solenoid could be faulty.