Terminal CVT Issue?

[Waue1978]

Hello all

A few months ago I was extolling the virtues of the XADO EX120 & how it completely cured the judder of my wife's 55k Jazz & vastly improved my 130k one.

A couple of weeks ago I got the CVT fluid changed in both cars. Both have been judder free since doing so.

But the 130k one had a bit of a wobbly yesterday & now the judder has returned, & worse.

Had stopped at a roundabout, but when pulling away there was a delay in actually doing so, with a slight thud as it went & the return of the judder, but worse & with a bit more noise.

It's still smooth as usual when pootling along & under slight acceleration from a rolling start, but (as with before) the judder shows itself if using kickdown or pulling away from a standstill.

So, is this because the fluid change got rid of the EX120 & another dose will improve things again?

Or has the EX120 simply been masking the problem & my CVT is now properly dying?

[ColinS]

Are you sure it is not an engine mount.  I believe a faulty rear one shows these symptoms.

[Waue1978]

That's an interesting idea, & certainly one I hadn't thought of.
Is that something I may be able to check myself or is it going to need to be up on ramps?

[Westy36]

I've had a rear mount fail on a car before, not Jazz. The split rubber in the middle of the mount was very evident, should be easy enough to have a look by jacking the car up.

There are videos on Youtube and I found this link that may help.

https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/1st-generation-gd-01-08/94479-diy-automatic-transmission-rear-mount-replacement-2007-08-honda-fit-without-lift.html

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=jazz+rear+engine+mount

[Waue1978]

Well, not writing off the possibility of engine mount (not been able to get it to someone qualified yet), but can't see anything obviously damaged & (for what it's worth) I can't hear any knocks or see any movement if I try to shake the engine about.

Chucked the XADO EX120 in this morning & gave it a bit of a run (not expecting miracles on one run), but in doing so I had a realisation.

The horrible noise happens when I pull away or accelerate hard forwards - no noise or issues at all in reverse.

That suggests to me that maybe the CVT is on it's way out.

[Lord Voltermore]

Could still be worn rubber mounts on the engine or gearbox.   The effect of torque twist on the engine and gear box may  be different when the car is reversing.
    But dont climb under a car that is only  raised on a jack. It needs to be safely supported with axle stands etc. And although rubber mounts might be obviously worn and perished, sometime excessive  free play might only be revealed by using a heavy lever in the correct place. Which takes some mechanical experience, and can increase the chances of the car collapsing on a jack.   

If you are able to safely watch the car being driven off a short distance with the bonnet up it might be possible to detect whether the engine is twisting and moving in the engine bay more than you might expect. And maybe more movement  forward than reverse .  (assuming you know what is normal    )     

[embee]

The torque reaction for the engine on its mounts is in the opposite direction in forward and reverse. Essentially the engine unit tries to turn in the opposite direction to the wheels when under load. You could quite feasibly get problems in forwards gear but not in reverse.
Traditional rubber element engine mounts quite typically might have different stiffness in forward and reverse directions, often with a different section of rubber and various holes etc. It's quite possible for the mount to collapse in one direction (e.g. forward due to age/fatigue etc) but still be more or less OK in the other direction.
This is just a random image for example from google, I don't know what yur Jazz mounts look like.

[Waue1978]

Thanks for the feedback guys.

Funnily enough, I've had a transmission specialist suggest that it may be the starter clutch (& quote £1300+VAT) & my regular mechanic has checked on the book time to change the gearbox & it gives 6hrs, so had virtually written it off on the basis of the CVT being kaput.

But I haven't had chance to take it to my guy yet, so he's only been able to go by my verbal description.

One of the videos posted above suggests about 2hrs to change one of the engine mounts, so before I fully commit to it being a goner, I'll make sure to give the visual pull-away test a go with him.