Author Topic: New Gen1 owner here  (Read 1289 times)

AotearoaMan

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New Gen1 owner here
« on: April 06, 2022, 09:04:13 PM »
Hi everyone,

I've just bought a 2006 Jazz with 122k on the clock for £200 and am happy to be joining the club. The person I bought it off didn't seem to take too much care over it and I'm treating it as if no maintence has been done.

So far on my job list I have the following:

Air filter(done)
Cabin filter (done)
Oil + filter (done)
Spark plugs (done)
Red line fuel treatment (done)
Windscreen wash top up (done)
Brake fluid
Coolant
Manual trasmission fluid
Valve adjustment
The exhaust has been bodged to get through the previous MOT but it blowing just under the drivers door

There is also an engine warning light on the dash. Which after I replaced the air filter it went away, but now I've done a run it came on about 60mph and stayed on ever since.  I'm getting an OBDD2 scanner which hopefully should help me figure it out.

Is there anything major which you guys think I'm missing?

Thanks in advance!

Jocko

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Re: New Gen1 owner here
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2022, 10:03:20 PM »
Welcome. A great choice of car and a brilliant price.
First thing. Did you change all eight spark plugs or did you think it only had four?
Second. I had a repeated MIL for P0302 (cylinder two misfire). After changing plugs and a plug pack it still kept coming back. I replaced the exhaust for a hole just in front of the box under the driver's door and it hasn't come back since.
I wouldn't worry about the valve clearances as they are really stable. My car has done 149K and they have never been looked at. Another maintenance item is the fuel filter. Forget it. With UK fuel it doesn't need to be changed.
If you change the transmission fluid make sure you can remove the fill plug before you remove the drain plug.
Lastly. Post a couple of pictures, please.

aphybrid

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Re: New Gen1 owner here
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2022, 08:02:22 AM »
Well done, a great challenge but I am sure he Honda will reward for the genuine care you will give it.

AotearoaMan

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Re: New Gen1 owner here
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2022, 08:56:45 AM »
Thanks to forums I knew it had 8 and did all of them with NGK spark plugs. Noticed a couple were loose and all were pretty dirty.
That's good to know about the exhaust, any recommendations on which exhaust to put on? I was thinking of a cheap and nasty ebay or eurocarparts special, as doesn't seem worth putting a genuine Honda one on.
I've got a fair amount of tapping coming fom the engine, which I thought may be helped by the valve clearances? I've read it may be valve slap also?
Had the same thought about the fuel filter, i'm leaving that alone.

Ill try and get some pics of the car when i'm home from work. Heres a comparison of the old/new spark plugs when I did them the other day.

Jocko

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Re: New Gen1 owner here
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2022, 09:18:48 AM »
I have just fitted exhaust parts from Motor Factors. Piston slap is highly unlikely. The Jazz engine is bulletproof. At 122K it is hardly run in. My engine is quiet on startup, gets a little tappety after a mile or so then quietens down another couple of miles after that.

embee

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Re: New Gen1 owner here
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2022, 11:53:27 AM »
FWIW just a few notes on piston noise, since the subject has been mentioned.

I spent several years doing piston development on various engines.
First thing to understand is that they are not round, not straight, the gudgeon (wrist) pin is not in the middle, the ring lands are all sorts of different shapes and not necessarily even concentric with each other.
As the engine runs, the piston will tilt, sit against one side of the bore, tilt again, reverse sides, etc, typically doing 6 or 7 tilt reversals during a cycle. This is due to inertia effects, gas pressure, and friction.
 Each time it tilts it can result in noise. The most noise, and the most noticeable and annoying noise, is typically if the top land (above the top ring) hits the cylinder bore. The crown is the stiffest and heaviest part of the piston and will make a knocking/tapping sound which is quite distinctive. Top land clearances are kept at a minimum, allowing for thermal expansion (piston crowns can run at up to 300C) because this is the area where most HC emissions originate due to trapped fuel which won't burn in small gaps. However there is the risk of hard contact and noise with small clearances. The top land is usually tapered and sometimes offset to one side to reduce the tendency for contact with the bore.
Land and ring groove details are complex, to allow management of oil and gas flows. Gas pressure gets behind and between rings and can influence dynamic movement of the rings, occasionally lifting rings off the bore surface or causing "flutter" where it rattles up and down in the groove. Ring geometry and flexibility is another huge subject.

Skirts profiles are developed to support the piston best once it is at full operating temperature. They are generally hotter at the top and cooler at the bottom, so the skirt is usually a pear-shaped barrel profile. The piston expands differently in the thrust axis and the gudgeon pin axis due to the masses of the pin bosses and thus the temperatures are different. This means the skirt, and sometimes one or more ring lands, are oval (major axis on the thrust line, minor axis on the pin axis). However it isn't usually a simple oval, it is a shape which allows for the differential expansion of the piston and the bore (bores seldom stay round when hot) so can have "corners" at the edges of the thrust panel. Some skirts have slightly raised pads to act a bearing areas to reduce friction, plus low friction coatings, but the profile still needs to be made to suit the expansion. Skirts are generally reasonably flexible so "soften" the impacts reasonably effectively. While cold or part warm the support might not be ideal and you often get different noise characteristics during cold start and warm-up, and it is very load dependent. You can get light-load rattle where the gas pressures are low and inertia forces are dominant, put on slightly more load and the rattle goes away because the tilt points change.

Gudgeon pins are offset towards the thrust side by typically 1.0-1.5mm to encourage the piston to tilt to the thrust side due to inertia forces as it approaches TDC especially at low speed/idle to reduce noise. Too much or too little offset can make things worse. One engine family I worked on has 2 variants with different capacity/strokes, with different con-rods, and those pistons ended up with different pin offsets to minimise cold start rattle.

In my experience Honda car engines typically are not the quietest pistons, but they are pretty bomb-proof.

Electric motors are much simpler. Perhaps it's the future?   ;D

Skyline84

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Re: New Gen1 owner here
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2022, 12:43:15 PM »
I had the centre section and rear box on my Jazz replaced about 6 months ago and bought the replacement from eBay - around £70 all in if I remember - it came with a 5 year warranty, for the value of the car it would be more than sufficient rather than an expensive genuine Honda part.

It sounds like you have the basics covered. Like others have mentioned, they are pretty reliable cars generally. Rust is usually the biggest issue, especially at this age.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2022, 12:44:53 PM by Skyline84 »

Jocko

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Re: New Gen1 owner here
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2022, 04:14:49 PM »
Regarding the handbrake. The Jazz disc handbrake is renowned for not being the greatest. When I bought the car a Honda mechanic told me to always apply the footbrake firmly before setting the handbrake. That way it holds brilliantly. I have never encountered a hill, up or down, that the handbrake struggled to hold on. Having said that, I always leave my car in gear when parking anywhere.

AotearoaMan

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Re: New Gen1 owner here
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2022, 04:22:10 PM »
By the sounds of it the noise from the engine may be nothing to worry about then.

I've seen those ebay exhausts with a 5 year warranty, so may go for one of those since it fits. I'll wait until my scanner arrives and then if its nothing too terminal I'll try and stick a new exhaust on. Not looking forward to getting the nuts off of the exhaust as i expect they are going to be very rusty.

I have an old transit so i know all about rust, but luckily this Jazz doesn't look too bad.


degzi

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Re: New Gen1 owner here
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2022, 10:42:47 PM »
Exhaust wise avoid eurocarparts. They are utter pants, use gsf, or ebay as they are way better and same price or cheaper.

Have a listen when going over speed bumps etc, drop links tend to go every couple of years. You will hear a faint tap sound if they are on the way out. Again ebay cheapo £15ish for 2 and hope you get 2yr out of them instead of 1 year  :D

olduser1

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Re: New Gen1 owner here
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2022, 10:19:56 AM »
Have eande around your local breakers yard for MK1 Jazz , handy to have genuine source if spares.
Check for corrosion rear wheel arch, the under the rear floor back from axle.
Worthwhile replacing tyres older than 15 yes.
Enjoy your Jazz.

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