Electric cars

[Westy36]

Seems a bit backwards

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/mar/18/uk-slashes-grants-for-electric-car-buyers-while-increasing-petrol-vehicle-support

Vauxhall have lowered some list prices to ensure their cars still qualify for the grant.

https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/manufacturer-news/2021/03/24/vauxhall-cuts-ev-prices-to-fit-plug-in-grant?utm_campaign=24_03_2021_FN_daily_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_content=FN%20-%20Newsletter%20-%20Daily&utm_source=adestra&utm_term=Vauxhall%20cuts%20EV%20prices%20to%20fit%20plug-in%20grant&gutid=6581

Begs the question, just how over inflated are current EV prices? For example the entry level Corsa is £15k, the Corsa E starts at £21500.

[sparky Paul]

Begs the question, just how over inflated are current EV prices? For example the entry level Corsa is £15k, the Corsa E starts at £21500.

Citroen have done the same with the top trim e-C4.

I'm sure there's plenty of price scalping going on, supply is barely keeping pace with demand.

[Jocko]

There is zero chance of it being here in the UK this year, or probably next.

According to Tesla UK, who are taking orders now, they expect the RHD version to be available here in 2021 and the "cheap" single motor RWD by the end of 2022.

https://www.tesla.com/en_gb/cybertruck/design#battery

[sparky Paul]

There is zero chance of it being here in the UK this year, or probably next.

According to Tesla UK, who are taking orders now, they expect the RHD version to be available here in 2021 and the "cheap" single motor RWD by the end of 2022.

You will be able to complete your configuration as production nears in late 2021.

I'm pretty sure that doesn't mean that they expect it to be available here in 2021... they haven't even built the factory yet!

You know me, I'm as optimistic as the next man when it comes to electric cars, I can't see it happening this side of 2022. I'm not sure that Musk's comments towards the end of last year sounded particularly promising either.

Speaking during a Q&A session at Tesla's annual Battery Day conference, Musk said that while orders for the Cybertruck are "gigantic" at well over half a million, and he predicted production capacity to be "at least 250,000 to 300,000 a year, maybe more", he also indicated the vehicle may well not make it past regulators outside the United States.

"We are designing the Cybertruck to meet the American spec," Musk said, "because if you try to design a car to meet the superset of all global requirements, it basically, you can’t make the cybertruck, it’s impossible."

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/tesla/cybertruck/96447/tesla-cybertruck-unlikely-come-uk-smaller-version-could

[TiJazz]

Tesla delisted the Cybertruck from the UK site a while ago. We will eventually get a European truck thing, but that’s a long way off.

[Jocko]

This is the car that is going to replace the Tesla Model S for premium EV buyers.



Here is a rather poorly presented (in my opinion) Fully Charged video of the first production vehicle in the UK.
I want one—only about £100K more than for the MG5.

[richardfrost]

Whilst on my daily run yesterday, there was a bit more traffic around than usual. I particularly noticed the stink coming from an old diesel Corsa. Later on, three generic delivery vans and two pick up trucks from an organic soil provider passed me, all diesel, all completely no odour detectable to me. And I was running, breathing deeply and I am asthmatic.

So what is my point?

Banning ALL ICE vehicles in one go is too ambitious. There is a whole class of poorly maintained, generally older and privately owned diesel vehicles which are terrible for the environment. Get them off the roads ASAP. Newer, properly maintained and professionally driven diesel vehicles may not be the heart of the problem.

Disregarding rail freight and prioritising it rail for inter city public transport over freight seems crazy in a world where human journeys suddenly seem a lot less necessary, certainly in the world of business. Redesign HS2 as a clean freight delivery mechanism to hubs and take another look at road freight.

As far as I can see, banning the ICE is seen as some sort of magic bullet but like any bullet, it is only targeting a single problem. There is a much wider picture to look at which needs a multi-level nuanced approach.

Start by banning small engined diesel cars over a certain age.

[culzean]

Whilst on my daily run yesterday, there was a bit more traffic around than usual. I particularly noticed the stink coming from an old diesel Corsa. Later on, three generic delivery vans and two pick up trucks from an organic soil provider passed me, all diesel, all completely no odour detectable to me. And I was running, breathing deeply and I am asthmatic.

So what is my point?

Banning ALL ICE vehicles in one go is too ambitious. There is a whole class of poorly maintained, generally older and privately owned diesel vehicles which are terrible for the environment. Get them off the roads ASAP. Newer, properly maintained and professionally driven diesel vehicles may not be the heart of the problem.

Disregarding rail freight and prioritising it rail for inter city public transport over freight seems crazy in a world where human journeys suddenly seem a lot less necessary, certainly in the world of business. Redesign HS2 as a clean freight delivery mechanism to hubs and take another look at road freight.

As far as I can see, banning the ICE is seen as some sort of magic bullet but like any bullet, it is only targeting a single problem. There is a much wider picture to look at which needs a multi-level nuanced approach.

Start by banning small engined diesel cars over a certain age.

Governments have to bring in draconian measures to make sure car makers have reason to invest in making electric cars, otherwise as I have said before, BEV are too expensive to interest  lot of people, and still have range problem.  Some makers seem to be looking at hydrogen as a cleaner alternative to existing ICE - without the range problems of BEV, but once again it will come down to hydrogen infrastructure, cost of vehicle and cost of fuel. Due to its intermittent nature wind is really more useful for producing hydrogen - look at UK gridwatch and wind has had no real presence on the grid since last Friday,  and today at one point was down to 0.2GW ( 0.5% ).

[John Ratsey]

There is a whole class of poorly maintained, generally older and privately owned diesel vehicles which are terrible for the environment. Get them off the roads ASAP. Newer, properly maintained and professionally driven diesel vehicles may not be the heart of the problem.

Start by banning small engined diesel cars over a certain age.

I would create the "air quality levy" as a supplement to the annual VED. Perhaps zero for Euro 6 emissions compliant and progressively increasing as the vehicle become further from the current best with diesel hit much harder than petrol. The amount of this levy would be selected to provide a strong incentive to change. Some of those smaller diesels have got very low annual VED which is an incentive to keep them so the rules have to get re-worked.

[JimSh]

Due to its intermittent nature wind is really more useful for producing hydrogen - look at UK gridwatch and wind has had no real presence on the grid since last Friday,  and today at one point was down to 0.2GW ( 0.5% ).

At other times wnd can supply an excess.
That's why development of storage - either in batteries or hydrogen or in some other form is so important

[TiJazz]

Disregarding rail freight and prioritising it rail for inter city public transport over freight seems crazy in a world where human journeys suddenly seem a lot less necessary, certainly in the world of business. Redesign HS2 as a clean freight delivery mechanism to hubs and take another look at road freight.

HS2 will move the high speed intercity off the WCML, thus creating additional capacity for freight

[Jocko]

This is the car that is going to replace the Tesla Model S for premium EV buyers.

What no one has acknowledged is what a wonderful EV, the new Mercedes Benz EQS is, albeit at a premium price. 400 miles from a charge (EV Database), 250-mile Cold weather: 'worst-case' based on -10°C and use of heating.  200kW charge rate, where available, and 22kW home charging with a suitable supply.
It may be well beyond our purse, but it is no dearer than the Tesla  Model S Plaid and cheaper than the Plaid+. Personally, I'd opt for the EQS. You can only dream. Someone has to win the Euromillions.

[John Ratsey]

It may be well beyond our purse, but it is no dearer than the Tesla  Model S Plaid and cheaper than the Plaid+. Personally, I'd opt for the EQS. You can only dream. Someone has to win the Euromillions.

But will either fit in your garage? I want the range without having a big vehicle while still having the Jazz's internal space. Am I being too demanding?

And a 22kW home charge would blow most people's main fuse - it's the better part of 100A.

[Jocko]

When I can afford the EQS, it will easily fit in my 10-car garage. My house will also have a 3Ø supply and battery storage from my huge bank of solar panels and a generous wind turbine.   

Seemingly, most houses in Germany have a supply suitable for 22kW chargers.

[Westy36]

Banning ALL ICE vehicles in one go is too ambitious. 

As far as I can see, banning the ICE is seen as some sort of magic bullet but like any bullet, it is only targeting a single problem. There is a much wider picture to look at which needs a multi-level nuanced approach.

Start by banning small engined diesel cars over a certain age.

The car is such an easy target. Legislate to ban ICE is ill conceived. There are far worse sources of damage to our planet. Shipping for example, have you seen the stuff those cruise liners and container boats burn? Aviation, 'cheap' flights and such. Primani disposable clothing... etc etc. The car ain't great, but come on, it's just the easiest target.

Only yesterday on Radio 4, I briefly overheard reference to a Nature article and the damage caused by a common fishing method called bottom trawling. Apparently it causes potentially irreversible erosion of the sea floor and could reduce the ocean’s ability to bury carbon.

In other news, the Ford Mustang Mach-E is a prime example of the depressing future for cars. Not only will it be receiving wireless software tweaks, which sounds terrifying, it comes with an interior that looks like this: