Author Topic: Brexit and the scare mongers  (Read 24868 times)

JimSh

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Re: Brexit and the scare mongers
« Reply #105 on: March 09, 2018, 03:36:26 PM »
Jings. Somebody's opened a right can of worms here. Loads of posts.
Apologies if I've mucked up your forum. Don't think I've got the hang of this quote business yet

[edit by Admin - fixed it for you! :) ]

Quote
There are scaremongers on both sides of the argument.  As a leaver I see the exact opposite from what you do.
Only good point today is the news that Spain will put a block on any deal unless they get Gibraltar back! That and the Irish border issues should see the hardest Brexit possible. Just what I hoped for.

Why do you want a hard Brexit?
The only people to benefit from that will be the tax- evading ultra rich with money stashed away offshore.
If that applies to you I don't think you would be on the Honda Jazz forum.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2018, 11:29:19 AM by RichardA »

Jocko

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Re: Brexit and the scare mongers
« Reply #106 on: March 09, 2018, 04:27:50 PM »
Why do you want a hard Brexit?
I want us to walk away from the EU without giving them any more money. The balance of trade is more EU to UK than the other way round. It might pinch a few EU pockets.
I don't see how it will help the Ultra rich. They live by there own rules anyway.
If I was one of them it would be a Jaguar i-PACE, not a Leaf!

culzean

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Re: Brexit and the scare mongers
« Reply #107 on: March 09, 2018, 04:34:16 PM »
Why do you want a hard Brexit?
The only people to benefit from that will be the tax- evading ultra rich with money stashed away offshore.
If that applies to you I don't think you would be on the Honda Jazz forum.

It looks like EU negotiators have no interest in actually negotiating, just sniggering and putting up roadblocks - and they will not talk sense until they realise UK will walk away from table soon, and away from EU on 29 March 2019 if they carry on the way they are doing.   The last thing they want is a competitive nation on their doorstep that welcomes free trade (EU is a trade cartel) - with the Mediterranean countries in economic meltdown and a new eurosceptic government in Italy to join the one in Austria.  Poland and Hungary refusing to accept middle east migrants and some EU laws - they have their back to the wall are not going to let their liberal-socialist federal superstate dream go down the gurgler without a struggle,  but their days are numbered - a strange 1950's idea that is irrelevant in the modern world.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/929107/brexit-news-eu-uk-government-walkout-no-deal-scenario-draft-text-latest-update?utm_source=spotim&utm_medium=spotim_recirculation&spotim_referrer=recirculation
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

guest1372

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Re: Brexit and the scare mongers
« Reply #108 on: March 09, 2018, 05:22:46 PM »
So your view is it's a capitalist cabal & a socialist mecca? 

[removed by Admin]

TG

JimSh

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Re: Brexit and the scare mongers
« Reply #109 on: March 09, 2018, 07:16:04 PM »
Hi Culzean and Jocko,
Sorry I took so long to get back to you. I had written out a long answer and then found it was too long to post.
The EU negotiating team has been open, transparent and professional in the talks. The UK team on the other hand has been unprepared, inconsistent and deliberately confusing in its approach. It is little wonder that the EU negotiators are getting a bit pissed off.
The problems with the country are not due to the EU but to the devious Conservative Government and its austerity programme.
We had a good deal within the EU. We had many concessions - our own currency and a rebate negotiated by Margaret Thatcher. We won't get a better deal.
Jocko, If we walk out without paying, who will we make deals with.
The ultra rich including the owners of the Telegraph, Express and Mail want to avoid paying tax on money which they have stored offshore. See Paradise Papers. The EU is clamping down on this in summer 2019 which is why the Tories want out of EU laws.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2018, 08:07:11 PM by JimSh »

JimSh

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Re: Brexit and the scare mongers
« Reply #110 on: March 09, 2018, 07:35:05 PM »
Jocko,
Just seen that the UK government  has told Scottish and Welsh ministers they are likely to be barred from controlling policy in areas such as genetically modified crops, fishing and agriculture.
Looks like the Scottish fishermen are about to be shafted again.
They were shafted when the UK went into the common market.
Again it wasn't the Europeans who were responsible. It was the Ted Heath Government.
It came to light a few years ago when official papers were released by the 30 year law that Heath was aware that the Scottish Fishing industry would  be ruined by the deal that he made but was prepared to write it off. I think he got a new yacht as a result.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2018, 10:52:13 PM by JimSh »

culzean

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Re: Brexit and the scare mongers
« Reply #111 on: March 09, 2018, 08:09:26 PM »
Hi Culzean and Jocko,

The EU negotiating team has been open, transparent and professional in the talks. The UK team on the other hand has been unprepared, inconsistent and deiberately confusing in its approach. It is little wonder that the EU negotiators are getting a bit pissed off.
The problems with the country are not due to the EU but to the devious Conservative Government and its austerity programme.

We had a good deal within the EU. We had many concessions - our own currency and a rebate negotiated by Margaret Thatcher. We won't get a better deal.

EU negotiating team open and professional = bunch of bullies who go back on deals already made at previous stage and come the hard bunch again.  The time is fast approaching where Barnier will have to put his ego back in its box and listen to business in the EU, who want things to continue as they are now after Brexit, they are not into the political ideology side of things,  they just want to sell goods and make a profit.

Conservative austerity program = way to reduce national debt,  Labour have always run up massive debt by uncontrolled spending,  Conservatives get elected and try to balance the books and people say it is their fault.

We had a good deal with EU, wow I never realised that, does that mean they weren't really taking all that money off us to buy their way into other joining countries hearts and minds and drag them into their spiders web.   What did we get for the money except a bunch of rules and regulations that hampered our ability to trade with the rest of the planet ?   People who voted Brexit expected a financial hit and some rough water ahead,  but like Jocko I think we should walk away from the table as EU not interested in negotiating, we give them not a penny more  and leave on 29 March next year.

As the terrorist threat continues to grow   EU will have to introduce border checks if they are not to leave themselves wide open to free movement of terrorists throughout their schengen area.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2018, 08:25:16 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

JimSh

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Re: Brexit and the scare mongers
« Reply #112 on: March 09, 2018, 09:03:44 PM »
If I remember correctly, it was David Davis who tried to renege on the first phase agreement .

https://news.sky.com/story/david-davis-slammed-for-calling-brexit-deal-statement-of-intent-11167642

Verhofstadt  then said that he would be forced to have a legal document drawn up to prevent giving Davis any wriggle room.
Davis claimed this was unfair.
Jim

JimSh

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Re: Brexit and the scare mongers
« Reply #113 on: March 09, 2018, 09:42:04 PM »
Quote
We had a good deal with EU, wow I never realised that, does that mean they weren't really taking all that money off us to buy their way into other joining countries hearts and minds and drag them into their spiders web.   What did we get for the money except a bunch of rules and regulations that hampered our ability to trade with the rest of the planet ?
unquote

Money was taken from the richer areas and distributed to poorer areas.
That seems like an admirable objective to me.
Many of the poorer regions in the UK benefited from such  donations. You must have seen signs saying "erected with EU funding"
They funded renovations to Hull harbour.

http://www.humberlep.org/business/funding/

What I can't understand is why Hull then voted overwhelmingly to leave.


sparky Paul

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Re: Brexit and the scare mongers
« Reply #114 on: March 09, 2018, 10:24:26 PM »
Money was taken from the richer areas and distributed to poorer areas.
That seems like an admirable objective to me.
Many of the poorer regions in the UK benefited from such  donations.

That is at the root of the objections by the wealthy and the right wing press to the EU. It is, essentially, a socialist project.

richardfrost

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Re: Brexit and the scare mongers
« Reply #115 on: March 09, 2018, 11:21:14 PM »
They funded renovations to Hull harbour.

http://www.humberlep.org/business/funding/

What I can't understand is why Hull then voted overwhelmingly to leave.

Perhaps because a renovated harbour is not much use to a decimated fishing fleet. Which happened, I think, as a result of European policies.

But nevertheless I voted to remain, as in the whole I believe we are better in than out.

Shortly after the Leave vote, Lincolnshire farmers were interviewed wondering where they would get their cheap labour from to pick their crops, and where would they sell the crops. And yet Lincolnshire voted heavily to Leave.

You see turkeys do sometimes vote for Christmas.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2018, 02:50:04 AM by richardfrost »

sparky Paul

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Re: Brexit and the scare mongers
« Reply #116 on: March 10, 2018, 12:21:30 AM »
They funded renovations to Hull harbour.

http://www.humberlep.org/business/funding/

What I can't understand is why Hull then voted overwhelmingly to leave.

Perhaps because a renovated harbour is not much use to a decimated fishing fleet. Which happened, I think, as a result of European policies.

Not directly. The Hull and Grimsby trawler fleets were heavily reliant on fishing Icelandic waters, and the UK's failure in the cod wars ensured that the ports would suffer terminal decline.

The UK's capitulation was as a result of pressure from our friends in the US, after Iceland threatened to leave NATO and close the NATO base there. Because the Hull, Grimsby and NE Scottish fleets had not historically fished UK waters, the British Government had neglected to secure a proper share of EU fishing quotas.

Ironically, whilst there is much talk of a 'decimated' fishing industry, on current quotas the UK fishing fleet lands the second highest catch of all EU countries, around 700,000 tonnes - second only to Spain.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2018, 12:27:31 AM by sparky Paul »

JimSh

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Re: Brexit and the scare mongers
« Reply #117 on: March 10, 2018, 09:00:05 AM »
To Paul and Richard,
Thanks very much for all the info on Hull. Exactly the same with Peterhead. Tories blame EU for decimating fishing industry. EU money to rebuild harbour. Now Tories want control of Scottish fishing and farming.
The Scottish Government want to stop this but are being trivialised by right wing press.

Re Lincolnshire farmers.
Could it be anything to do with Sir James Dyson ?

https://whoownsengland.org/2017/09/19/why-is-james-dyson-hoovering-up-land/








culzean

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Re: Brexit and the scare mongers
« Reply #118 on: March 10, 2018, 10:17:30 AM »
They funded renovations to Hull harbour.

http://www.humberlep.org/business/funding/

What I can't understand is why Hull then voted overwhelmingly to leave.

Perhaps because a renovated harbour is not much use to a decimated fishing fleet. Which happened, I think, as a result of European policies.

But nevertheless I voted to remain, as in the whole I believe we are better in than out.

Shortly after the Leave vote, Lincolnshire farmers were interviewed wondering where they would get their cheap labour from to pick their crops, and where would they sell the crops. And yet Lincolnshire voted heavily to Leave.

You see turkeys do sometimes vote for Christmas.


Dutch trawlers have been fishing in the Thames using pulse fishing,  officially illegal in EU but the good news is that about 100 trawlers have been allowed to do it as 'research' (just like Japanese and other countries catch an awful lot of whales 'for research'.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/899183/Trawler-fishing-uk-pulse-fishing-George-Eustice-investigation-Cefas

We have had seasonal farm workers from abroad in UK for centuries,  it is not something that started with EEC / EC / EU membership.  It worked on a flexible visa system and it worked very well.   Absolutely no reason post-Brexit that we could not still do it 'the old way' LOL - if people need work and there is somewhere that has jobs,  they will go there (and there are not too many job opportunities in large areas of EU).

http://theconversation.com/who-picked-british-fruit-and-veg-before-migrant-workers-63279
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Basil

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Re: Brexit and the scare mongers
« Reply #119 on: March 10, 2018, 02:43:54 PM »
Copied from another site:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/14/honda-uk-warns-mps-of-consequences-of-leaving-eu-customs-union
The devastating impact of a hard Brexit on the UK car industry was laid bare on Tuesday to MPs, who were told every 15 minutes of customs delays would cost some manufacturers up to £850,000 a year.

Presenting the industry’s most detailed evidence yet to the business select committee, Honda UK said it relied on 350 trucks a day arriving from Europe to keep its giant Swindon factory operating, with just an hour’s worth of parts being held on the production line.

The Japanese-owned company said it would take 18 months to set up new procedures and warehouses if Britain left the customs union but that, with 2m daily component movements, even minor delays at Dover and the Channel tunnel would force hundreds of its trucks to wait for the equivalent of 90 hours a day.

“Outside of the customs union, there is no such thing as a frictionless border,” said Honda’s government affairs manager, Patrick Keating.

“I wouldn’t say that the just-in-time manufacturing model wouldn’t work, but it would certainly be very challenging.”

Until now, many large multinationals have chosen to present such commercially-sensitive data to the government in private, but with MPs still struggling to force disclosure of 58 sectoral analysis reports produced by Whitehall officials, there is growing demand for the impact of leaving without a deal to be spelled out.

Witnesses said new tariffs would add an estimated £1,500 to the price of an imported car, and Rachel Reeves, the Labour MP and former Bank of England economist who led Tuesday’s hearing, encouraged the executives to outline how exporters might also face a possible £300 cost due to tariffs on their imported components.

A hard Brexit deal or no deal will see our car industry collapse. Do the headbangers care however? Probably not.

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