Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums
Honda Jazz Forums => Honda Jazz Mk2 2008-2015 => Topic started by: metallicpearl on September 28, 2019, 08:18:03 PM
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I've had a GE Jazz for approx. 5 months now.
I bought it under the Approved Used scheme from a main dealer.
I love the car but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed with the issues I've had with it so far:
1) Noisy gearbox at idle. The dealer I purchased it from said this was normal. However, it seemed to be getting noisier so I took it to a different dealer and they replaced 2 gearbox bearings under warranty.
2) Squeaky brakes. I've had the car back to the dealer 3 times now, each time with the same issue. They have stripped and cleaned the brakes each time but I'm not confident it will solve the issue.
3) Metallic 'thunk' over uneven surfaces. Had it to 2 different dealers, both unable to find the cause. Had a droplink replaced at one dealer but this didn't solve it.
I have had a look underneath the car and I've noticed that both driveshafts have lateral play in them and they make a knocking sound if I wiggle them.
So, I have 2 questions:
1 - should I expect the driveshafts to be replaced under the approved used warranty which still has approx. 7 months left on it, or would this be considered 'wear and tear'?
2 - would it be a reasonable expectation for 2 main dealers to have noticed the driveshaft noise when checking for suspension-related knocking?
Many thanks!
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Being very wise with the benefit of hindsight, when my previous Jazz died with plenty of driveshaft movement, it was down to a gearbox failure, so I am guessing that there lies the issue, I would suggest that you ask a Honda main dealer checks it out OR get rid asap.
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Being very wise with the benefit of hindsight, when my previous Jazz died with plenty of driveshaft movement, it was down to a gearbox failure, so I am guessing that there lies the issue, I would suggest that you ask a Honda main dealer checks it out OR get rid asap.
I don't quite follow.
Was your issue presenting itself at the gearbox end of the driveshaft, which pointed to a gearbox failure?
I had 2 bearings in the box replaced but the knocking happens over bumps so I didn't think the 2 were related.
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I didn't know I had a problem, until there was a knocking noise when accelerating. If the speed was steady there was no noise, even at 70mph. The noise got steadily worse during a 2 hour driving lesson. I then drove the car to the nearest dealer (10 miles) and they put the car on the ramp and said that both oil seals on the nearside driveshaft had failed, draining the oil from the gearbox, but the main problem was the 4 inches of lateral travel on that driveshaft, which they said was terminal for the gearbox.
They then quoted me £9000 for a new Honda gearbox !
Bear in mind that this was after 256,000 miles on a driving school car.
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Re the squeaky brakes, my 2018 Jazz had squealing brakes, the dealer told me it was due to the materials now being used in brake pads (more environmentally friendly) which caused a polishing effect on the discs if you are usually a gentle braker, the solution to this was to give it a good dose of heavy braking to force the pads to bite into the discs. I was sceptical but it worked, don't know if this is the same issue you've been having.
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I am very light on my brakes and my brakes squeak all the time. As I say squeak, not squeal.
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It's a high pitched noise as you brake gently or feather the brakes, for example as you slow or stop on a roundabout or a junction, doesn't do it when you slam on. One man's Squeek another man's Squeel...
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I've recorded a video to demonstrate the knocking - this isn't normal, is it?
Many thanks for the comments re: the brakes. I am not a late braker and by the sounds of it, neither are other people who have this happen. I'll keep an eye on it :).
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Re the squeaky brakes, my 2018 Jazz had squealing brakes, the dealer told me it was due to the materials now being used in brake pads (more environmentally friendly) which caused a polishing effect on the discs if you are usually a gentle braker, the solution to this was to give it a good dose of heavy braking to force the pads to bite into the discs. I was sceptical but it worked, don't know if this is the same issue you've been having.
Its called glazing and you are correct it is caused by light braking. I generally try to do a couple of hard stops a week ( on empty roads ) to keep the glaze away, better on downhill bits as you can get back up to speed without pressing the loud pedal and using fuel. I will also occasionally pull handbrake on for a short time when moving to try to keep rear pads cleans and efficient, don't need more than about 5 seconds at around 30mph or brakes can get pretty hot.
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I would write to dealer you bought car from and state your problems clearly, don't leave it too late. Under consumer law on buying a vehicle any problem that happens within 6 months of your buying the car will be deemed to have been present when the car was sold, after that it gets a bit less clear cut and open to interpretation of 'failure' vs 'fair wear and tear' - I say write to the dealer ( and recorded delivery ) because written complaints are far more effective than verbal exchanges, which some dealers will deny later. Keep a timeline of when you visited the dealer etc. etc. as this will become important in any future negotiations, you need a paper trail. Email is also good if you are able to get replies as this again will prove that you contacted the dealer.
https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/consumer-rights-act
https://www.whatcar.com/news/your-legal-rights-if-something-goes-wrong-with-your-car/n3307
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Wow, seems you are very unlucky with this car!! How many miles has it done, and how many owners??
mike
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Wow, seems you are very unlucky with this car!! How many miles has it done, and how many owners??
mike
It's a 2013 (62) EX with 60k on the clock - 2 previous owners from new, I believe. Full main dealer service history and I bought it in April under the approved used scheme.
Having had the the gearbox bearings done and the droplink done under warranty, I'm paranoid that the dealer is going to think I'm just finding problems now - I wouldn't have found what's in that video if 2 separate dealers had successfully diagnosed what's causing the knock - I an worried they will say this isn't a warranty issue.
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Just had a look at the video. Driveshafts are designed to slide in and out of the transmission, to a certain extent, to allow for the change in length, as the suspension travels through its range. How much "slack" you can feel depends on the design of the joints, but the slack in the video may not be extreme. Comparing it to another Jazz would confirm whether it is extreme of within normal parameters. Unfortunately I am too old and infirm to crawl under my car and do a comparison for you.
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As Jocko says, it's normal to find a bit of movement in the joints, it certainly doesn't look excessive and I would be very surprised if that's the source of your knocking.
Much more likely to be a bad suspension joint, bush or top mount somewhere, droplinks are always the obvious place to start. Knocks can sometimes hard to diagnose, but anybody worth their salt should be able to find it.
I know you shouldn't be having to do this with a warranty, but get the car on a flat surface and rock it with the roof sills, you (or an assistant) might be able to hear something clicking. If you can replicate it that way, it's in the suspension somewhere. If you want to go further, the assistant can reach and grasp each joint tightly, or wedge a bar in to stop it moving - when the noise goes away, you have found the culprit.
Is it less noticeable in wet weather? Less/more noticeable on bends? How about low speed over road humps? Can you feel anything through the steering wheel or the floor? Is it a hard metallic rattly knock, or a softer thump noise?
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Just had a look at the video. Driveshafts are designed to slide in and out of the transmission, to a certain extent, to allow for the change in length, as the suspension travels through its range. How much "slack" you can feel depends on the design of the joints, but the slack in the video may not be extreme. Comparing it to another Jazz would confirm whether it is extreme of within normal parameters. Unfortunately I am too old and infirm to crawl under my car and do a comparison for you.
Thankyou - that makes sense :). My issue isn't necessarily the movement (though I'm not sure if they are supposed to move from side to side), it's the knocking noise which comes from the wheel end of the shaft, which I think may be the cause of the knocking over uneven surfaces.
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As Jocko says, it's normal to find a bit of movement in the joints, it certainly doesn't look excessive and I would be very surprised if that's the source of your knocking.
Much more likely to be a bad suspension joint, bush or top mount somewhere, droplinks are always the obvious place to start. Knocks can sometimes hard to diagnose, but anybody worth their salt should be able to find it.
I know you shouldn't be having to do this with a warranty, but get the car on a flat surface and rock it with the roof sills, you (or an assistant) might be able to hear something clicking. If you can replicate it that way, it's in the suspension somewhere. If you want to go further, the assistant can reach and grasp each joint tightly, or wedge a bar in to stop it moving - when the noise goes away, you have found the culprit.
Is it less noticeable in wet weather? Less/more noticeable on bends? How about low speed over road humps? Can you feel anything through the steering wheel or the floor? Is it a hard metallic rattly knock, or a softer thump noise?
I've tried rocking the car (with and without weight in it) and this doesn't produce the sound. Both dealers apparently checked all the suspension parts and couldn't find anything amiss, which is why I resorted to looking myself. My wife's Toyota driveshafts dont move from side to side at all which is why I'm thinking this might be abnormal. It also produces a metallic sound, which is characteristic of the knock I can hear when driving, which seems to happen when hitting sudden dips in the road surface.
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I had a knock caused by a collapsed joint on a wishbone.
(https://i.imgur.com/n5Ue7uZ.jpg)
The circular joint at the rear of the dark blue Y piece.
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Most of the driveshafts on cars with a few miles on will have some movement in the joints, and will make a noise when you pull them about. I just popped out and had a tug of the shafts on our 2008 with 170,000 miles on it, there is far more movement in them than yours.
The reason you can hear and feel bad suspension joints so well is because you have the weight of the car pulling and pushing on them when switching from compression to tension, it gives them a real whack. Steering joints make less noise, but they still have the cornering forces acting on them.
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Most of the driveshafts on cars with a few miles on will have some movement in the joints, and will make a noise when you pull them about. I just popped out and had a tug of the shafts on our 2008 with 170,000 miles on it, there is far more movement in them than yours.
The reason you can hear and feel bad suspension joints so well is because you have the weight of the car pulling and pushing on them when switching from compression to tension, it gives them a real whack. Steering joints make less noise, but they still have the cornering forces acting on them.
Do yours knock as well?
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They are definitely supposed to move in and out, however there should be no movement up and down, i doubt very much if your noise is the drive shafts, and i am very supersized you have had to have new gearbox bearings, did they solve the earlier problem?
Like Jacko says, would think it is suspension/joint problem.
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They are definitely supposed to move in and out, however there should be no movement up and down, i doubt very much if your noise is the drive shafts, and i am very supersized you have had to have new gearbox bearings, did they solve the earlier problem?
Like Jacko says, would think it is suspension/joint problem.
Yes, it solved the gearbox noise, which was a grinding/metallic spinning in neutral - it's as good as silent now.
I have let Honda UK know what is happening as I've now had 2 dealers acknowledge the knocking noise but fail to find the cause - the last one said I need to wait for it to get worse.
I had a Hyundai Getz before this, which I took from 38k to ~120k and I didn't have the cavalcade of issues I've had with this. It was supremely reliable.
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Drive shafts are splined so that they can float in and out a bit to take up movement as driveshaft angle changes as the suspension works so will have a small amount of end play. As i posted earlier if you are worried by anything be sure to put it in writing to the dealer.
Have a look at all the photos of a jazz driveshaft here...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Honda-Jazz-III-Ge-1-2-Drive-Shaft-ABS-Left-Front-/173838796134
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Well, it could be a constant velocity joint on the driveshaft, after all it must have had some stick to need the gearbox bearings done. No way of knowing without putting new one in. Looks like you just have to keep pestering them to fix it, after all they have acknowledged the noise so you do have proof of a fault.
mike
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Most of the driveshafts on cars with a few miles on will have some movement in the joints, and will make a noise when you pull them about. I just popped out and had a tug of the shafts on our 2008 with 170,000 miles on it, there is far more movement in them than yours.
The reason you can hear and feel bad suspension joints so well is because you have the weight of the car pulling and pushing on them when switching from compression to tension, it gives them a real whack. Steering joints make less noise, but they still have the cornering forces acting on them.
Do yours knock as well?
No, it's absolutely silent.
I know exactly the up/down movement you are describing, and I understand it is a bit disconcerting, but you can feel this movement on most CV joints - more so the inners, which are simple sliding tripods.
I'll have a jiggle at the shafts in our 2015 Jazz tomorrow if you like, for comparison. It's done around 50k miles. Other half has been away in it for a few days, so I haven't had access to it.
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Most of the driveshafts on cars with a few miles on will have some movement in the joints, and will make a noise when you pull them about. I just popped out and had a tug of the shafts on our 2008 with 170,000 miles on it, there is far more movement in them than yours.
The reason you can hear and feel bad suspension joints so well is because you have the weight of the car pulling and pushing on them when switching from compression to tension, it gives them a real whack. Steering joints make less noise, but they still have the cornering forces acting on them.
Do yours knock as well?
No, it's absolutely silent.
I know exactly the up/down movement you are describing, and I understand it is a bit disconcerting, but you can feel this movement on most CV joints - more so the inners, which are simple sliding tripods.
I'll have a jiggle at the shafts in our 2015 Jazz tomorrow if you like, for comparison. It's done around 50k miles. Other half has been away in it for a few days, so I haven't had access to it.
Any input greatly appreciated- thanks for your help.
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Sorry about the delay, what with the weather and stuff to do, but I got to have a looky at the driveshafts today. There is movement in the outer joints, not as much as the old Jazz, but they sound exactly the same as yours when you tug them about.
One other point I would make. When you compare them to the driveshafts on other cars, you have to make sure you have relieved the tension on the driveshafts by knocking the car out of gear and dipping the clutch once before checking - otherwise you may not feel any movement in the joints at all.
I still don't think it has anything to do with your driveshafts.
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Drive shafts are splined so that they can float in and out a bit to take up movement as driveshaft angle changes as the suspension works so will have a small amount of end play. As i posted earlier if you are worried by anything be sure to put it in writing to the dealer.
Have a look at all the photos of a jazz driveshaft here...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Honda-Jazz-III-Ge-1-2-Drive-Shaft-ABS-Left-Front-/173838796134
Just a small point, but it's not the splines that give you the movement in the driveshaft - the splines are fixed securely into the hub and the gearbox. The extension in the shaft occurs entirely within the inner CV joint, which is a sliding spider - three roller bearings in the form of a tripod which slide in and out of the outer housing.
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Drive shafts are splined so that they can float in and out a bit to take up movement as driveshaft angle changes as the suspension works so will have a small amount of end play. As i posted earlier if you are worried by anything be sure to put it in writing to the dealer.
Have a look at all the photos of a jazz driveshaft here...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Honda-Jazz-III-Ge-1-2-Drive-Shaft-ABS-Left-Front-/173838796134
Just a small point, but it's not the splines that give you the movement in the driveshaft - the splines are fixed securely into the hub and the gearbox. The extension in the shaft occurs entirely within the inner CV joint, which is a sliding spider - three roller bearings in the form of a tripod which slide in and out of the outer housing.
Thanks, I knew there had to be longitudinal movement in the shaft, was looking back at rear drive propshafts that used to slide in and out of gearbox final drive shaft on splines. Here is a good description of constant velocity joints.
https://everything.explained.today/Constant-velocity_joint/
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Thanks, I knew there had to be longitudinal movement in the shaft, was looking back at rear drive propshafts that used to slide in and out of gearbox final drive shaft on splines. Here is a good description of constant velocity joints.
https://everything.explained.today/Constant-velocity_joint/
Fascinating, and amazing the description has no diagrams.
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Fascinating, and amazing the description has no diagrams.
If you look at third link down in notes and references at bottom of page you get this..
http://what-when-how.com/automobile/universal-joints-automobile/
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Thanks. That's what I call exhaustive. All the maths too.
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Sorry about the delay, what with the weather and stuff to do, but I got to have a looky at the driveshafts today. There is movement in the outer joints, not as much as the old Jazz, but they sound exactly the same as yours when you tug them about.
One other point I would make. When you compare them to the driveshafts on other cars, you have to make sure you have relieved the tension on the driveshafts by knocking the car out of gear and dipping the clutch once before checking - otherwise you may not feel any movement in the joints at all.
I still don't think it has anything to do with your driveshafts.
Many thanks to you for that :). I also now doubt it is driveshaft-related. Honda are supposedly getting back to me tomorrow. On a side note, I had to do a 3-point turn last week and as the weight shifted, there were 2 loud bangs from underneath the car. I think this may be related.
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That is typical of a defective driveshaft joint.
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That is typical of a defective driveshaft joint.
Loud bangs? Maybe from a UJ, but normally just cyclic clicking from a worn CV, and a collapsed joint usually gives terrible vibration.
The OP said it was as the weight shifted, that still sounds to me like something anti roll bar related, or maybe wishbone rear bush. There are lots of possibilities, but I would still guess suspension somewhere.
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Well its going back to the dealer tomorrow and they are going to liaise with Honda UK to try and find the source.
I wasnt encouraged by the phonecall with Honda which suggested I might have to live with it until it becomes very obvious if there is no luck this time! I dont think that's reasonable.
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I wasnt encouraged by the phonecall with Honda which suggested I might have to live with it until it becomes very obvious if there is no luck this time! I dont think that's reasonable.
That's the 'let it develop' strategy.
Sometimes, the play in joints is so small, it's hardly perceptible - especially droplinks. I would have been tempted to do both droplinks to rule them out, they're the ones which gives the most horrible noises from small amounts of joint wear.
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And they are the cheapest to repair. A good dealer would do them as a matter of course. Takes about as much time to check as to change!
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And they are the cheapest to repair. A good dealer would do them as a matter of course. Takes about as much time to check as to change!
I also wondered this. If I were paying, the dealer would say I should do both yet they did the one.
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And they are the cheapest to repair. A good dealer would do them as a matter of course. Takes about as much time to check as to change!
Absolutely.
Not only that, they can knock before you can detect any play by hand.
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Well, the dealer have again said they cant see anything obvious and as per the T&Cs of the warranty, nothing that would fail an MOT inspection will be replaced. They've asked me to go down there AGAIN to point out the noise.
Starting to think I'll have this noise forever. Honda are going to speak to the garage again but I think in going to be on my own with this one!
:(
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Bite the bullet and get the drop links changed. When I had one knocking my mechanic son-in-law could feel no play. He replaced it and the knocking went away!
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Bite the bullet and get the drop links changed. When I had one knocking my mechanic son-in-law could feel no play. He replaced it and the knocking went away!
I've had one done under warranty so if it is the other one, I don't see why I should have to pay anything. The car still has the Approved Used warranty.
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You could always try another Honda dealer ;)
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You could always try another Honda dealer ;)
This is the second dealer I've had it to :(. Both dealers identified the sound but couldn't find the source.
I fee like they don't want to spend time looking for it by taking things off, even though the car is under warranty.
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Post the name and address of the dealers here, so others can avoid them. Then send a link to this thread to both dealers!
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I'm trying trying to stay on good terms with the dealers but the suggestion that something has to be an MOT failure before it qualifies for a warranty fix is baffling to me.
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Have you contacted Honda direct to enquire about this policy? Send them the link to this thread.
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I'm trying trying to stay on good terms with the dealers but the suggestion that something has to be an MOT failure before it qualifies for a warranty fix is baffling to me.
It's just to fob you off until the end of the warranty period, and fairly standard practice from my experience. It's the main reason I avoid warranties on used cars, you often have to make a nuisance of yourself to get anything done.
I'm guessing that the dealer has to make some contribution to these 'Honda Approved Used' warranty claims, dealers are normally falling over themselves to find work on new car warranties that the manufacturer will pay for.
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So I spoke to Honda this afternoon...who initially said I have to pay a diagnostic fee for the time spent raising a report to the master technician. They've waived the fee now under goodwill.
It seems the Approved Used Warranty might not be the same as a new car warranty, as I was told when I bought it. That said, this might be common practice that I've never encountered.
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It beggars belief really that they expect you to drive a car around making banging and clunking noises, just because they CBA to make an effort and find the problem. A car that you have paid good money for, at that. To put the top hat on it, they wanted you to pay extra for them to make an effort!
Yes, some knocks and rattles can be difficult to pinpoint, but it can always be done, one way or another. I would be tempted to tell them it's not a very good advertisement for Honda when people in the street stare at the car because of the clunking noises!
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It seems the Approved Used Warranty might not be the same as a new car warranty, as I was told when I bought it.
If it's the same as others, then a used "warranty" is an insurance product, and they're never going to easily pay out for a claim. With a new car / manufacturers warranty then they're probably looking at keeping the customer happy, but without breaking the company.
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Exactly - generally something has to have clearly broken / failed. "It's making a funny noise" is never going to cut it.
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I've now got the car back and it's no better.
The dealer said any further work is chargeable and they think the sound has gone. I literally drove it down tbe road the dealership is on and it was there, knocking away.
I feel a bit stuck now. Bought a car with a reputation for reliability, with a manufacturer approved warranty yet I'm stuck with this awful noise. Honda seem to have reached the limit with how much they want to help.
I'm thinking of taking it to an independent garage but I'll have to pay for that. I wonder if they'd be able to find the cause.
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Change the other drop link then go from there.
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I feel a bit stuck now. Bought a car with a reputation for reliability, with a manufacturer approved warranty yet I'm stuck with this awful noise. Honda seem to have reached the limit with how much they want to help.
I'm thinking of taking it to an independent garage but I'll have to pay for that. I wonder if they'd be able to find the cause.
What are the dealers like that you're using? The old, little independent dealers had a good reputation. The newer ones, often part of larger groups, seem pretty hopeless.
Honda have changed too - we had the rear discs and pads changed FOC by one of the old type of dealer on our first mk2 because they looked tatty. The second mk2 developed an issue where one of the pads wore out - took three dealer visits to sort it and both the dealer and Honda completely refused to accept any responsibility for sending car out with worn out brakes, or for it happening in the first place.
Honda used to have a repuation for going the extra mile, but if they're not going to do that then people might as well buy something else.
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Well, it seems that you have two choices. Either you do as they suggest, and drive around with it banging away until whatever is causing it is hanging off, or find a decent independent garage, explain the situation, let them have a drive, point the noise out, and see what they can do.
For something like this, you need someone who has been in the trade for a while and knows all the tricks to find obscure suspension faults. They may well suggest the other droplink without looking, just to rule it out, and I'm with Jocko on starting there.
As I said earlier, knocks and bangs can sometimes be tricky to pinpoint, but it can be done with a bit of patience. There is almost certainly no danger in "letting it develop", but these noises drive you nuts and become unnecessarily distracting - you end up driving about concentrating on the noises the car is making, rather than the far more important matter at hand.
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Thankyou for the input, peeps.
I have now had both droplinks replaced and the sound is still there. I've checked the sway bar bushes and there's no play at all.
I'm wondering whether it is something that is protected by the plastic cover underneath...
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I don't know about your model, but the Mk 1 has the centre box running along side the offside inner sill. I had a knock caused by the box knocking against the sill (albeit after having the box replaced), but it is something easily checked.
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I don't know about your model, but the Mk 1 has the centre box running along side the offside inner sill. I had a knock caused by the box knocking against the sill (albeit after having the box replaced), but it is something easily checked.
Are you referring to the exhaust? :)
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Sorry, yes.
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Jocko is talking about the exhaust, yes - get hold of the tailpipe and bounce it about - see if you can hear anything.
It's always worth doing the droplink, it's so easy to rule out the most common cause. Who did the droplink, did you have a chat with them about the problem?
Are there any clues as to the area the noise is coming from? Any particular corner, or does it sound like it's all around you - coming from the bodyshell? Does steering position affect it, is it more likely to knock steering straight ahead, or on bends?
Did the noise come on gradually, or suddenly? Did it coincide with any work carried out, such as when (or soon after) you had the gearbox bearings replaced? It could be as simple as something loose, engine or gearbox mount, brake caliper carrier, subframe mountings, etc.. Lots of stuff has to be disturbed to remove the gearbox.
I've had so many different causes of knocks over the years, but metallic sounding ones are more likely to be a droplink, balljoint or top mount. Bushes usually have obvious tears or other visible damage to make that sort of noise. A loose top shock absorber nut sounds similar to a droplink. Failed engine/gearbox mounts can make some horrible noises. There are even lots of silly things on the bodywork that can rattle and knock on bumps. The most obscure one I had was a shock absorber, felt perfectly normal but knocked like a droplink when driving. After going through everything else, replacing the shock absorber cured it.
It's just a matter of working through the most likely candidates, then moving onto more obscure stuff. If someone looks it over, mention that the gearbox has been out... it's a very long shot, but if they forgot to torque something up, it could have worked loose. I've even seen a new droplink knocking after a day, because the nuts had been tightened up with the suspension off the floor - the top nut subsequently worked loose.
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Jocko is talking about the exhaust, yes - get hold of the tailpipe and bounce it about - see if you can hear anything.
It's always worth doing the droplink, it's so easy to rule out the most common cause. Who did the droplink, did you have a chat with them about the problem?
Are there any clues as to the area the noise is coming from? Any particular corner, or does it sound like it's all around you - coming from the bodyshell? Does steering position affect it, is it more likely to knock steering straight ahead, or on bends?
Did the noise come on gradually, or suddenly? Did it coincide with any work carried out, such as when (or soon after) you had the gearbox bearings replaced? It could be as simple as something loose, engine or gearbox mount, brake caliper carrier, subframe mountings, etc.. Lots of stuff has to be disturbed to remove the gearbox.
I've had so many different causes of knocks over the years, but metallic sounding ones are more likely to be a droplink, balljoint or top mount. Bushes usually have obvious tears or other visible damage to make that sort of noise. A loose top shock absorber nut sounds similar to a droplink. Failed engine/gearbox mounts can make some horrible noises. There are even lots of silly things on the bodywork that can rattle and knock on bumps. The most obscure one I had was a shock absorber, felt perfectly normal but knocked like a droplink when driving. After going through everything else, replacing the shock absorber cured it.
It's just a matter of working through the most likely candidates, then moving onto more obscure stuff. If someone looks it over, mention that the gearbox has been out... it's a very long shot, but if they forgot to torque something up, it could have worked loose. I've even seen a new droplink knocking after a day, because the nuts had been tightened up with the suspension off the floor - the top nut subsequently worked loose.
I did the droplink myself - it was a pain to do because the nuts sieze but at least I can rule that out.
The noise tends to happen when I'm driving straight ahead, on uneven surfaces. It's sudden dips in the road which seem to be the biggest trigger and when it happens, I can feel it throughout tbe front of the car. At first, I thought that it must be the nearside but thinking about it, most divots in the road tend to be to the left because of road use etc.
Here is a video link - you'll see that as I approach some bad patches of road, I get the normal suspension noise, accompanied by the metallic sound, like somebody has a can of bolts rattling underneath.
I did have the brakes stripped and cleaned not long before this started but this all seems to be in order...
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That seems more of a clicking sound rather than anything 'down below'
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Is that the noise at 0:01 0:03 and 0:07 with suspension noise?
...then more clearly clunks at 0:34 and 0:37 whilst turning round?
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Is that the noise at 0:01 0:03 and 0:07 with suspension noise?
...then more clearly clunks at 0:34 and 0:37 whilst turning round?
Yes, it is the noise at 0.01, 0.03 and 0.07. The clunks later on are because I'm dropping off a kerb and are (I think) normal.
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It's not that clear from the clip, I couldn't really hear it on the laptop speakers. I can hear it on headphones.
You have to appreciate that it's not easy to diagnose from here, but it doesn't sound like a droplink-type noise, they are altogether louder. Possibly the beginnings of a bottom balljoint, sometimes overlooked as they rarely seem to fail these days, though it could easily just be something loose. The fact that it happens more on the straight (when the control arm and antiroll bar are relaxed) would still sway me towards suspension, but this is all very speculative, you understand.
You could find a quiet road and run one wheel at a time over a road hump or pothole to try to narrow it down to one side or the other.
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Thankyou for that:)
I has anybody changed the Antiroll bar bushings on a GE? Is it a pain?
This seems like a logical step so I can eliminate the ARB.
Thanks:)
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I has anybody changed the Antiroll bar bushings on a GE? Is it a pain?
This seems like a logical step so I can eliminate the ARB.
http://hondafitjazz.com/manual3/en/html_en/ZOOM000000000000411.html#000
Access is a bit fiddly, but straighforward, and the bushes are split so it should be easy enough. Remove the clamps, lift up the bar and slide out the old bushes. Use a bit of Fairy if you replace with new ones, so they slide in easily and slip into the clamp recesses.
If you pry the ARB about, it should be fairly obvious if a bush is damaged or worn, but they should be easy enough to replace.
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I has anybody changed the Antiroll bar bushings on a GE? Is it a pain?
This seems like a logical step so I can eliminate the ARB.
http://hondafitjazz.com/manual3/en/html_en/ZOOM000000000000411.html#000
Access is a bit fiddly, but straighforward, and the bushes are split so it should be easy enough. Remove the clamps, lift up the bar and slide out the old bushes. Use a bit of Fairy if you replace with new ones, so they slide in easily and slip into the clamp recesses.
If you pry the ARB about, it should be fairly obvious if a bush is damaged or worn, but they should be easy enough to replace.
Thankyou very much :)
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Well, I've done absolutely nothing and it's temporarily stopped!
I wonder if it has something to do with the copious amounts of rain we have had as that's the only thing that's changed. We have loads of rain.
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Well, I've done absolutely nothing and it's temporarily stopped!
I wonder if it has something to do with the copious amounts of rain we have had as that's the only thing that's changed. We have loads of rain.
If you remember, near the start of this thread, I asked
Is it less noticeable in wet weather? Less/more noticeable on bends? How about low speed over road humps? Can you feel anything through the steering wheel or the floor? Is it a hard metallic rattly knock, or a softer thump noise?
Quiet once it's had a good bath - that's a balljoint symptom.
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SORTED!
Many thanks for everybody's helpful suggestions.
It was the brake pads rattling in the calipers. I'd had it back to the dealer before the rattle started because the brakes were squealing and the anti-rattle clips weren't holding the pads properly. This wasnt picked up when it went back in again for the brakes.
I found and sorted it myself as the dealer refused to do any more without payment upfront. Honda have stopped responding to my emails as well so it looks like I'm on my own for any future rattle issues.
Thanks again, all :)
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At least it's fixed!
Anything rattling that's a metal to metal contact can be quietened down with a deluge, always worth bearing in mind.