Author Topic: 2014 Honda Jazz  (Read 34299 times)

chrisc

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 839
  • Country: za
  • My Honda: 2012 1.4 manual
Re: 2014 Honda Jazz
« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2013, 07:29:52 AM »
If you are prepared to put up with less performance, then a diesel should be more economical than a petrol engine.  At the workshop, we have a 1.8 petrol engine Nissan 1-ton and a 2.2 diesel Isuzu 1-ton.  Both have canopies.  The Nissan is astonishingly heavy on petrol, averaging 18l/100km (15 miles per gallon) whereas the Isuzu does 9l/100km (31 mpg).  All cars get serviced at 10000km and the Isuzu has not had any problems yet, it has covered 220000km and is 4 years old.  Performance wise, both are pretty poky but it is noticeable that the Isuzu is less willing uphill and you have to change down more often.  Our previous Isuzu lasted 6 years but unfortunately got stolen.  It turned up completely stripped on the side of the road a few weeks later, even the window glass was gone.

We only bought the Nissan as it was very cheap at the time, but it costs more to run.  You are right about the clutch though, you need a powerful left leg to push the pedal, even though it is a hydraulic cylinder.
If music be the food of love, play on

guest3418

  • Guest
Re: 2014 Honda Jazz
« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2013, 09:46:44 AM »
The thing is that most people will have the feeling that the diesel is quicker because most people don't thrash their engines to maximum revs. At low revs the diesel will allways win.
That's the reason that my wife still misses her Clio because of the higher torque at low revs. It had the same bhp then the jazz but it had 185Nm@2000rpm.
But I am very hesitant in buying a new diesel now because of the ever changing legislation and the fact that downsizing hasn't done diesel engines any good. They are more economical then their bigger predecessors but in practice the use the same amount of fuel. My Megane (1.5dci) for example struggles to perform better then 5.4 l/100km (constantly with about 150kg in the boot and it has a dual clutch gearbox).

Downsized petrol engines seem to perform very well because of the use of turbochargers. The VW 1.2 TSI, Renault 1.2 tce and the Ford 1.0 ecoboost are great engines with good low end torque. But we still don't know how they perform after 200.000km...

Verstuurd van mijn GT-N7100 met Tapatalk


John Ratsey

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2662
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: 2022 HR-V Elegance
Re: 2014 Honda Jazz
« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2013, 10:30:45 AM »
How much of the enthusiasm in Europe for diesel cars is caused by the emissions legislation focusing only on CO2? Thermodynamically, the diesel cycle is more efficient so it wins in that respect although a side effect is more generation of other pollutants.

The situation isn't helped by the manufacturers of the small turbo-diesels tweaking their engines to give optimum results in the EU fuel consumption tests which don't represent real-life conditions. OK, all manufacturers tweak to get their best results but the small turbo engines give the biggest difference between laboratory and real life because of the disproportionate increase in fuel consumption every time the throttle pedal gets pushed down.

A diesel Jazz makes sense if only to compete with the others in the marketing. Whether I would buy one on account of the slightly lower fuel costs is another matter: I've got used to not being able to hear the engine running plus the hybrid system boosts the low end torque where the normal petrol engines are a bit weak.

John
2022 HR-V Elegance, previously 2020 Jazz Crosstar

DV

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 426
  • Country: gb
  • Fuel economy: [/URL]
  • My Honda: 2013 Honda Jazz EX CVT
Re: 2014 Honda Jazz
« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2013, 10:34:33 AM »
Don`t forget the more horses you`ve got the more fuel you`ll need (engine size does not matter).

guest3418

  • Guest
Re: 2014 Honda Jazz
« Reply #19 on: April 01, 2013, 12:50:16 PM »
The problem with all the smaller hybrid vehicles is that their tow weight is 0... And in a country like the Netherlands where a lot of people own caravans or tenttrailers you need to have the possibility to tow something. In the size group of the Jazz most people expect the capability to tow 1000kg.

For small cars diesel engines are not really economical anymore since the fuel consumption of petrol engines has come down a lot in recent years. When we got our previous car, a Clio dci, the difference was quite big. A petrol version would do 13 to 14km/l and the diesel version really did about 23 to 24km/l. The road tax was a lot higher so you really had to drive about 25000km each year to save money.

Verstuurd van mijn GT-N7100 met Tapatalk


guest4004

  • Guest
Re: 2014 Honda Jazz
« Reply #20 on: April 20, 2013, 10:45:46 AM »
I have been a company car driver for the last 12 years and always had a diesel, because of the mileage I do per year, which is between 40000 and 50000. If it wasn't for common rail injection, I would hate diesels. That technology has made the diesel such a fun motor, economical quiet and you can drive really lazy.
I was made redundant this year so I was carless. I had to get a cheap motor so I got a basic 11 year old Honda Jazz basic, I love the engine on this car. not particularly fast, but very willing and pulls like a demented dentist uphills. in comparison to vauxhall Corsa 1.2 and the economy is ok. but if I had to choose between a petrol and a diesel it would be a diesel with common rail injection every time (apart from vauxhall diesels which are a bit crude)

eagle123

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 78
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: jazz 1.4 se gd series
Re: 2014 Honda Jazz
« Reply #21 on: April 21, 2013, 11:24:06 PM »
I still have the gd series jazz, on a 57 plate, its a idsi engine, so got two spark plugs per cylinder helping it burn the fuel hotter, compared to the newer l series the idsi torque figure starts on a lower engine rev bit like a diesel engine.

As for economy the most I got exceeded the quoted manufacture figure, I  got mine at 52 mpg, and the car in question is a 1.4 idsi.

Just wait and see whether Honda will release a more efficient engine with twin scroll turbos, 3 cylinder or like what vw and ford have done
 

guest436

  • Guest
Re: 2014 Honda Jazz
« Reply #22 on: April 25, 2013, 09:47:11 PM »
I traded in a BMW 118d for a new shape Civic 1.8 i-VTEC last year. Six months on and I don't miss diesel one bit.

I'd doubt if a diesel Jazz would actually make sense...but if the market wants it....

John Ratsey

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2662
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: 2022 HR-V Elegance
Re: 2014 Honda Jazz
« Reply #23 on: April 26, 2013, 05:46:02 PM »
Just wait and see whether Honda will release a more efficient engine with twin scroll turbos, 3 cylinder or like what vw and ford have done
Many tests show that the advertised fuel consumption figures for the small turbo-assisted engines aren't reflected in the real world. Engines get tuned to suit the standard tests http://www.which.co.uk/cars/choosing-a-car/how-we-test-cars/how-we-test-mpg/ which probably mean the turbo isn't used much. In reality, unless the driver is very light-footed, the turbo provides a means to put a lot of fuel into the cylinders quickly. This will improve performance but the economy heads in the other direction. The eurocrats need to get to work on changing the standard test criteria to better reflect real life usage.

Europe's love of diesels is caused to the focus on CO2 with disregard to the other nasties that can emerge from a diesel exhaust pipe. In some other countries (such as India) the engine preference has been distorted by diesel fuel being subsidised.

John
2022 HR-V Elegance, previously 2020 Jazz Crosstar

culzean

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8017
  • Country: england
Re: 2014 Honda Jazz
« Reply #24 on: April 26, 2013, 07:36:57 PM »
Europe's love of diesels is caused to the focus on CO2 with disregard to the other nasties that can emerge from a diesel exhaust pipe. In some other countries (such as India) the engine preference has been distorted by diesel fuel being subsidised.
John

I agree entirely about diesels,  they have been given a status in Europe as less polluting than petrol, which is not true as anyone who has ever followed a diesel is aware of the grey and black smoke they pump out when accelerating or going uphill.  concentrating purely on CO2 is not helpful, as diesels pump out all manner of worse stuff (a lot of it cancer causing particulates).  The particulate filter fitted to modern diesels is prone to blocking up badly on shorter runs, so using a diesel as a local runabout is asking for problems.  The American and Japanese are very aware that Diesels are dirty, and that is why they have never been popular in those countries.  When Europeans are silly enough to think bio-fuel diesel is the answer to 'sustainable low carbon energy' and buy it from Asian countries who have chopped down rainforests to plant oil palms well anything is possible. I have always loved petrol engines,  and the best in the world are made by the big H, if Yammick has traded in his BMW diesel for 1.8 vtec Civic then he is a man after my own heart and will not regret it, especially when he is up around the 7000rpm mark and the engine is sounding better than any music yet written by man.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2013, 10:58:43 AM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

culzean

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8017
  • Country: england
Re: 2014 Honda Jazz
« Reply #25 on: May 05, 2013, 09:42:24 PM »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

guest4038

  • Guest
Re: 2014 Honda Jazz
« Reply #26 on: May 06, 2013, 06:08:14 PM »
....Particulate filters clog up fairly quickly on local mileage as well,  and as Richard A says, they need higher revs and longer distances to burn-off the gunge.  ....
That's exactly why we are moving from a 2.0TD Kuga to a 1.4 petrol Jazz! It became obvious that our largely local/low speed usage was going to require us to make special journeys at sustained high revs to clear the DPF (or face charges for the dealer to clear the filter) which would negate the economy advantage of the diesel engine. If you factor in the price differential in the fuel prices and the premium that diesels attract in the sticker price of the vehicle, you need to be doing a much higher mileage and at sustained higher speeds to justify a diesel nowadays.

Jazz Hands

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 36
  • Country: scotland
  • My Honda: 2010 1.4 Si
Re: 2014 Honda Jazz
« Reply #27 on: May 06, 2013, 07:54:54 PM »
@LabRat,

You clearly bought the wrong car in 1st instance if you were doing local /low speed runs, I ran a VAG diesel for 5 years, primarily for my 60 mile a day commute to work, car never missed a beat, servicing was no more expensive than my Type R and then a 2.4EX Accord.

Since changing jobs last year it was only a matter of time before it needed to be sold as it simply wasn't doing the miles to make it worthwhile

Anyone buying a diesel needs to be doing a minimum of 15k a year and with a large percentage of motorway miles or it makes no sense.


@culzean

the "truth" regarding diesels has always been there, the only intelligent piece of journalism in that report is that petrol engines are indeed becoming more efficient

culzean

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8017
  • Country: england
Re: 2014 Honda Jazz
« Reply #28 on: May 06, 2013, 09:23:24 PM »
@Jazz Hands

the Americans and Japanese have known the truth about diesels for many decades (that is why diesel cars are as rare as hens teeth in those countries) - that they have been pumping out cancer causing particulates and nitrous oxides into the worlds air supply and European governments have lauded them for their 'lower Co2 emissions'. The truth is that people who smoke get cancer because of what they choose to do, the rest of us get cancer because of Diesel engines.  Anyone who has ever followed a diesel vehicle knows that they pump out clouds of muck every time the accelerator is pushed down (even modern diesels) the driver probably never sees these from his own car unless a car is following him at night when he may see it in the following headlights. 

Diesel engines were designed for lorries and trains where their low revs and higher torque (because of longer stroke required to get high compression ratio) were advantageous, putting them in a car is unnecessary, their extra weight causes problems,  and to iron out the intrinsic lumpiness and vibration of diesel (and prevent it destroying gearbox and transmission) they had to fit 'dual-mass' flywheels, and I don't know anyone who has not had to have the dual mass flywheel replaced because it has fallen apart.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

guest4038

  • Guest
Re: 2014 Honda Jazz
« Reply #29 on: May 07, 2013, 10:11:26 AM »
@LabRat,

You clearly bought the wrong car in 1st instance if you were doing local /low speed runs,.....

But we weren't - things change!  ;)

Tags:
 

Back to top