Does Mk4 Jazz ever drive in EV mode with climate control on?

[jazzaro]

https://www.peugeot.co.uk/electric-and-hybrid/drive-peugeot-electric/electric-battery-range.html

[Kenneve]

I'm running with the Climate Control permanently On, set to 20c, and can confirm that the EV mode does work for a significant amount of time, Only had the car for 3 days and about 35 miles covered, current average consumption of 63.7Mpg. local motoring.  I will be doing my first long distance run on Saturday circa 250 miles and will report back.

Did my first long distance trip today, taking in M42/M1/M18/M180, plus a few miles of local roads, making a total of 335 miles since delivery. Speed on the motorways was kept at 60 Mph using ACC
Climate control set as previously stated.
I can confirm that EV mode did work for many miles (perhaps a mile or so each time, but not really sure how many) and returned 66.8 MPG over the 335 miles total, with 315 miles remaining as per attached photo

Similar trips in the past, with the Mk3 EX have returned around 55 MPG, so quite pleased with results so far.

I think I saw an article recently on the Tesla EV, which claimed a difference in range of only 5 miles with and without Climate Control, so if that is case here, then I'm not concerned.

[Jocko]

I think I saw an article recently on the Tesla EV, which claimed a difference in range of only 5 miles with and without Climate Control, so if that is case here, then I'm not concerned.

That is born out by jazzaro's link to Peugeot

[peteo48]

You often hear a 10% figure bandied about for the effect of aircon on mpg but I gather 5% is much more realistic as systems have improved over the years.

[Jocko]

When I had my Volvo S40 I tried both on and off and found that any difference in mpg got lost in the clutter of top ups.

[Expatman]

I'm running with the Climate Control permanently On, set to 20c, and can confirm that the EV mode does work for a significant amount of time, Only had the car for 3 days and about 35 miles covered, current average consumption of 63.7Mpg. local motoring.  I will be doing my first long distance run on Saturday circa 250 miles and will report back.

Did my first long distance trip today, taking in M42/M1/M18/M180, plus a few miles of local roads, making a total of 335 miles since delivery. Speed on the motorways was kept at 60 Mph using ACC
Climate control set as previously stated.
I can confirm that EV mode did work for many miles (perhaps a mile or so each time, but not really sure how many) and returned 66.8 MPG over the 335 miles total, with 315 miles remaining as per attached photo

Thanks for the information. I would be most interested what MPG you achieve on that journey if you increased your speed on motorways to 70’ish - because that’s the speed I drive on motorways! Any idea when you are making the same journey again so you can do a direct comparison between 60 and 70 on motorway driving?

[Kenneve]

Might be some weeks before I do the same trip again, but will let you know when I do.
My only reason for 60mph was, as an old school driver, was to run  it in a bit.
I know it’s not supposed to necessary nowadays, but I still think it makes a difference.

[Expatman]

Might be some weeks before I do the same trip again, but will let you know when I do.
My only reason for 60mph was, as an old school driver, was to run  it in a bit.
I know it’s not supposed to necessary nowadays, but I still think it makes a difference.

Thought so, I've always felt it better to run new cars in a bit as well and I'm of that vintage when it was considered essential!

[John Ratsey]

Thanks for the information. I would be most interested what MPG you achieve on that journey if you increased your speed on motorways to 70’ish - because that’s the speed I drive on motorways! Any idea when you are making the same journey again so you can do a direct comparison between 60 and 70 on motorway driving?

You can figure this out by looking at the components of the WLTP test cycle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worldwide_Harmonised_Light_Vehicles_Test_Procedure. The extra high phase is representative of cruising at up to 80mph and the results (see attached extract from Jazz Mk 4 brochures with columns the 4 grades of Jazz) show that the fuel economy falls through the floor at the motorway speed limit.

Drag losses are roughly proportional to speed squared and the Jazz, being relatively short and high, has a higher drag factor than cars which are more streamlined. At 60mph or over the hybrid system brings minimal fuel economy benefit although the Atkinson cycle engine helps a bit. However, when there's a problem and the motorway traffic changes to stop-start-crawl mode then the hybrid system provides a very obvious benefit.
 

[Expatman]

Thanks for the information. I would be most interested what MPG you achieve on that journey if you increased your speed on motorways to 70’ish - because that’s the speed I drive on motorways! Any idea when you are making the same journey again so you can do a direct comparison between 60 and 70 on motorway driving?

You can figure this out by looking at the components of the WLTP test cycle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worldwide_Harmonised_Light_Vehicles_Test_Procedure. The extra high phase is representative of cruising at up to 80mph and the results (see attached extract from Jazz Mk 4 brochures with columns the 4 grades of Jazz) show that the fuel economy falls through the floor at the motorway speed limit.

Drag losses are roughly proportional to speed squared and the Jazz, being relatively short and high, has a higher drag factor than cars which are more streamlined. At 60mph or over the hybrid system brings minimal fuel economy benefit although the Atkinson cycle engine helps a bit. However, when there's a problem and the motorway traffic changes to stop-start-crawl mode then the hybrid system provides a very obvious benefit.

I can see that but I would rather have real world figures to compare against. Wouldn’t you?

[Kremmen]

When Which? had a MK4 on test they were getting 91mpg but I don't know exactly what their test routes were.

The one thing that keeps popping up is, even if we keep a hybrid long after 2030, will the oil companies still supply the UK when other countries will be more profitable until/if they ban fuel.

[John Ratsey]

I can see that but I would rather have real world figures to compare against. Wouldn’t you?

Yes, but the real world figures can be distorted by real world factors, particularly the wind and temperature. For example, yesterday I did a round trip 46 miles each way, 94 minutes outbound and 84 minutes return and the car reported 77.8 mpg for the outbound leg and 70.8 mpg for the return. The difference, is I think, largely due to a tailwind going out and a headwind on the way home.

At motorway speeds the wind effect is even more noticeable. A 20 mph wind would give wind drag appropriate for anything between 50 mph and 90 mph depending on the wind direction (and I reckon that the turbulance caused by crosswinds add significantly to the drag losses.

As for 90+ mpg, this might be achievable by pottering along very slowly so that the drag losses are minimal or the end being much lower than the start. I've seen over 80 mpg on some short trips after a brief stop (so the engine is still warm) with the battery starting at the higher end of its charge range.

BTW, yesterday I noticed for the first time the car doing engine braking towards the bottom of a long hill after the battery reached 100% charge. I think I'd previously not noticed this happening because it's necessary to listen carefully for the change in vehicle sound as the engine was very quiet.

[Expatman]

When Which? had a MK4 on test they were getting 91mpg but I don't know exactly what their test routes were.

The one thing that keeps popping up is, even if we keep a hybrid long after 2030, will the oil companies still supply the UK when other countries will be more profitable until/if they ban fuel.

There will be millions of ICE vehicles on UK roads after 2030, and for many years after that. Drivers regularly doing long journeys for which EV's are unsuitable, second hand car drivers who can't afford an EV or have the space to charge it, first time young country drivers who need a car to get round but can't afford anything newish, cars towing caravans, not to mention trucks etc. The change to full EV ownership will take years, if ever.
Petrol and diesel will remain easily available because demand will be there.

[peteo48]

I think that's right. I read a lengthy article a couple of weeks ago which took into account a range of factors including the car industry's capacity to make enough EVs. In short the mix of cars in 2030 was likely to be 12 million EVs and 21 million ICE cars (some hybrid of course). Certain types of hybrid will also be on sale up to 2035. At my age I don't expect to see the day when you can't buy petrol.

[Jazzik]

Petrol and diesel will remain easily available because demand will be there.

Even if a ban on gasoline is announced, we will have no problem. Our hybrids use so little of it that when we fill our bathtub at home, we can keep driving for years and years, right?