Author Topic: Replacing front track control arms- when they're being a pig! And a HELP request  (Read 1029 times)

Stevenod

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I'll add my experience here to help others.
- Ball joint nut was seized. A big butane torch is too clumsy but I used a jeweller's/creme brulee needle flame torch plus Kroil releasing agent.
I ground a cheapie 17mm ring spanner just enough to slip on below the CV joint then used a length of scrap exhaust pipe over that for leverage.
GOLD: the CV joint and the balljoint nut are their own joint splitter!; find a flat piece of steel about 4mm thick (I used a spanner handle). Place between the balljoint bolt end and the CV then unscrew the nut up against your packing piece with a 17mm open-ended spanner to force the taper apart, whilst belting the outside of the joint to shock it free.
First it will splay the castle bits on the nut. Trim them off with a small cold-chisel then carry on unscrewing and hammering. Lever the arm down occasionally or you may not realise it's come free.
I have just clumsily hit my CV boot whilst hammering and made a hole so now I need to take the damned driveshaft out anyway! Arse! If you're as clumsy as me hammer onto a heavy drift not direct on the joint.
- Front 12mm bolt. End of thread is exposed and rusty; clean with tiny wire wheel in a drill and oil up before you even start.My bolt was hopelessly rusted into the bush inner so the entire bush spun with the bolt and was forcing the subframe apart. I removed the anti-roll bar link for access and then cut the old arm off with a 'Sawzall'. Tried cross drilling thro' the bush inner to lock it with an 11mm bolt. No good. Cut the bolt through each side of the bush with angle grinder and 1mm slotting discs. Do oil and free up the remaining threaded bit BEFORE you cut the bolt and use the slot disc to cut a screwdriver slot to get the threaded bit out. This video helped. Follow his safety advice.- Can't get the new Honda bolts til Tuesday and they're nearly £10 each! :o Toolmaster in Oxford sold me two M12 x 1.25 X 78mm high tensile bolts (8.8 series) for £3 for two. I feel safe to drive on them til Tuesday but will probably replace with the factory parts.
- Reassembly: by inspection the rear bush can only enter the subframe from the front, sliding rearwards, so do that first then swing the arm round to get the front bush into the subframe and then lever the arm down to get the balljoint taper into the knuckle.
So the next guy or gal has an easier time copper grease all the bolts and bush inners before assembly.
HOT TIP: any exposed thread will get dirty and corrode and be a pig to undo or adjust. Clean the threads with a wire wheel, grease up well and then slide an offcut of rubber or plastic hose over the threads. They'll stay pristine forever(ish) This allowed me to easily remove the A-roll bar link that I'd fitted a year ago. Do this on old British motorbike or bicycle chain adjusters.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2020, 05:16:39 PM by Stevenod »

Stevenod

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My query is this: Just coming to refit the replacement bottom arm. The rear fixing bolt is M14 but the inner bush on the new arm is inside diameter 19mm.  This will really help with assembly but means that the rear end of the arm is only located by clamping pressure and some very half-hearted swaging in the subframe.

Surely the back end of the arm will be able to swing in and out under pothole impact and ruin the tracking.

I assumed I had the wrong part but the old arm that I removed is the same. All factory parts diagrams from 2002 to 2008 show a 14mm bolt and no add-in sleeve, and in this topic 'Replacing Front Control Arm details?'  9th post, 4th photo, TG's arms, old and new, clearly have a  hole in the bush of larger diameter than that of the bolt, which is also in shot.

Please can someone confirm that the car is safe and correct with a 14mm bolt through a 19mm hole?

« Last Edit: August 09, 2020, 05:44:46 PM by Stevenod »

Jocko

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Item 17 is a Bolt, Flange 14 x 98

Stevenod

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Newbie here. I'm struggling with attaching an image. This, hopefully, is my modified spanner for Jazz front track control arm balljoint loosening with driveshaft left in place.

 Nb: you can't get this spanner off the nut once it has raised up a few threads. You may have to remove this spanner once the nut is starting to turn and proceed with an open ender, or leave this on until the nut is off and the taper popped when everything will come loose anyway..
« Last Edit: August 09, 2020, 05:38:39 PM by Stevenod »

Stevenod

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Aye, Jocko. That's what I found. All mk1 Jazzes had 14mm bolts so why is the hole in the arm 19mm?

sparky Paul

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All mk1 Jazzes had 14mm bolts so why is the hole in the arm 19mm?


If I was to hazard a guess, I would have said a bit of castor adjustment - the only problem with that is that the Honda workshop manual says no adjustment is possible.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Stevenod

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All mk1 Jazzes had 14mm bolts so why is the hole in the arm 19mm?


If I was to hazard a guess, I would have said a bit of castor adjustment - the only problem with that is that the Honda workshop manual says no adjustment is possible.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Sensible suggestion, Paul. A quick bit of trig shows the 2.5mm in/out wobble would give about +/- 0.25 degrees of castor adjustment.

I used to work for Rover and my hunch is that it solved an assembly issue. If front bush position tolerance was difficult to hold it would cost production line process time messing about trying to get the damn rear bolts in. I bet a production engineer bored the bush out 5mm and his problem vanished. Then a grumbling chassis engineer was made to repeat all his/her rough road tests with the clearanced bush and to their surprise, maybe with higher torqued fixing bolt, the arm was fine so the mod went into production.

The other likely possibility is that the bush tolerance allows just enough give in the Thatcham Insurance Impacts that the bottom arm survives the crash without needing replacement, the repair cost is reduced and the Jazz is awarded a lower insurance group.

Whatevs, I've seen four arms now , all with the 19mm hole and my supplier confirms the (Monroe branded so quality) part is correct so on it goes with very careful bolt torques.

Thanks for all comments.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2020, 10:35:51 AM by Stevenod »

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