Author Topic: ABS SYSTEM CHECK and VSA SYSTEM CHECK have come on  (Read 1113 times)

GSX600FMAN

  • 2014 Jazz Hybrid GP1
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ABS SYSTEM CHECK and VSA SYSTEM CHECK have come on
« on: May 29, 2023, 07:56:22 PM »
I was driving and the warning Ďbingí sounded. Both ABS system icon light and then the VSA icon (pair of squiggly tyre tracks) came on. I continued to home knowing that normal brake function is not effected. I found when home that Iíd spilled a lot of cider in the boot which has soaked the boot floor, under the Hybrid battery pack, and down to the rear passenger footwell. Iíve physically removed all wheels and pressure washed around all brakes and ABS/speed sensors. I was hoping to find a broken cable, but all looked good. Are there Ďnon IP rated connectors under the rear seats or battery that could have been corroded or shorted out to cause the fault. No faults show on my OBD device.

madasafish

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Re: ABS SYSTEM CHECK and VSA SYSTEM CHECK have come on
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2023, 06:20:58 AM »
Check 12V battery voltage. If battery is on way out you can get spurious warnings

Lord Voltermore

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Re: ABS SYSTEM CHECK and VSA SYSTEM CHECK have come on
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2023, 10:19:07 AM »
It may need a scanner able to read the fault  codes. But I dont think all scanners can read braking system codes.

When it happened to me on another car (a corsa)  a mouse had chewed through a wheel sensor cable  :o  . The connector blocks for fitting a new sensor and cable  looked quite high tech, delicate  and difficult to separate so I left it to a professional. IIRC the copper core of the cable was very fine,so could easily be damaged without it showing on the outer , mouse munchable ,sheathing.  Also means the signals read by the ECU are very small, which supports the other suggestions re battery state etc. 
« Last Edit: May 30, 2023, 10:57:20 AM by Lord Voltermore »
  Trust a dog to guard your house  , but not your sandwich

nowster

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Re: ABS SYSTEM CHECK and VSA SYSTEM CHECK have come on
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2023, 10:34:08 AM »
Check 12V battery voltage. If battery is on way out you can get spurious warnings
I've seen this too on the Mk2 when the battery has been low after the car has been left unused for a few months. The car threw up a Check Engine error and went into limp home mode too.

Disconnect the 12V battery and charge it fully.

When the battery is charged, reconnect it, start the car and allow it to idle for a few minutes before you drive it.

GSX600FMAN

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Re: ABS SYSTEM CHECK and VSA SYSTEM CHECK have come on
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2023, 11:07:20 PM »
Update
From the symptoms, my observations/ inspections I ruled out:-
12v car battery (voltage /capacity)
Fuses for Brake, ABS/VSA etc.
Brake switch
Steering position sensor
Wheel speed (ABS) sensors condition and physical damage etc.

So I ended up doing the ‘old Indian trick’ of extracting the fault codes using a pin jumper for pin 4 and 9 on the OBD connector and the brake pedal then finish by grounding it.
The codes extracted were as follows. If anyone can name or identify each code, it may be of some help to others in the future for. A similar issue of the ABS and VSA warning lights coming on from the start.

Fault shown on dash is

SCS SERVICE HDS JAZZ
PA51 DTC B1240
PA74 DTC B2357
PA74 DTC B2356
PA74 DTC B2355
DTC END
I’ll see if I can attach the video.

embee

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Re: ABS SYSTEM CHECK and VSA SYSTEM CHECK have come on
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2023, 01:20:03 PM »
I know with other vehicles such fault codes will come up with faulty ABS sensors or pole wheel issues (the trigger wheel can be corroded or bent etc or air gap out of spec). Your issue may be something else entirely.

Romel

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Re: ABS SYSTEM CHECK and VSA SYSTEM CHECK have come on
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2023, 07:19:10 PM »
Hello Everyone, require guidance on ABS/VSA issue (2012 Jazz, 1.4, Manual gear, NO cruise control).
Since January, sometimes when I used to press the brake pedal, ABS followed by VSA warning light were coming on the dash. After restarting the car, when speed reached above 20+ mph, warning light automatically used to go off. Also, sometimes after washing the car same type of issues occurded.
Washed the card 2 days ago and since then very frequently the VSA light was coming.
Today went to a garage and after connecting the scanner, "138-1, Brake pedal position switch stuck off (Software)" code showed, it was cleared. There were no other error codes in the history as well and I have been suggested to replace the switch preferable by Honda spares (GBP 35). While coming back again when i pressed the brake, same warning came. After reaching home, I removed the switch and checked with the multimeter, switch is working fine. However, I dismantled and did not find any trace of carbon deposit on the contacts. After starting the car, warning was not going (I did not drove , just started the ignition).
I have gone through various post in this group and also clubjazz, this switch only work for the rear brake light, can this switch trigger warning if the brake lights / signal is working fine?
Also, please suggest me a economical scanner suitable for Jazz (with ABS diagnosis). FYI, I am a student hence tight on budget.
Need to sort out the warning light issue as having driving exam after a week.
Awaiting valuable guidance from your end.
Thanks in advance.
Liverpool

GSX600FMAN

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Re: ABS SYSTEM CHECK and VSA SYSTEM CHECK have come on
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2023, 08:05:07 PM »
I would like to suggest that there is some debris, dust or rust flakes that are intermittently ending up on the ABS/ speed sensor, which interferes periodically between one of the sensors at each wheel and its sensor/toothed ring ( I donít recall itís actual name). You can either, when you have the time, remove each wheel and disc to get better access to thorough clean or blast out and rubbish  trapped near then sensors. Alternatively, easier) remove each sensor from wheel hub, after spraying suitable amount of penetrating spray at the bolt (M6 I think), so it comes out easy and inspect closely the end of the sensor. Looking for excessively dirty or damaged end. The bad or dirty looking sensor hub can be identified you need to disassemble and clean or replace the sensor ring depending on condition.
Thatís just my humble opinion and what Iíve done in the past on a 2008 and 2010 Jazz.

Romel

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Re: ABS SYSTEM CHECK and VSA SYSTEM CHECK have come on
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2023, 08:35:07 PM »
I would like to suggest that there is some debris, dust or rust flakes that are intermittently ending up on the ABS/ speed sensor, which interferes periodically between one of the sensors at each wheel and its sensor/toothed ring ( I donít recall itís actual name). You can either, when you have the time, remove each wheel and disc to get better access to thorough clean or blast out and rubbish  trapped near then sensors. Alternatively, easier) remove each sensor from wheel hub, after spraying suitable amount of penetrating spray at the bolt (M6 I think), so it comes out easy and inspect closely the end of the sensor. Looking for excessively dirty or damaged end. The bad or dirty looking sensor hub can be identified you need to disassemble and clean or replace the sensor ring depending on condition.
Thatís just my humble opinion and what Iíve done in the past on a 2008 and 2010 Jazz.

Will clean the speed sensors and also will check the brake calipers as well. Thanks a lot for your guidance.

Thanks a lot. Will

GBH

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Re: ABS SYSTEM CHECK and VSA SYSTEM CHECK have come on
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2023, 07:55:11 AM »

sensor/toothed ring ( I donít recall itís actual name).

These are known (generally ) as reluctor rings and a problem can be that as they work on a magnetic field they tend to collect metallic debris, so cleaning the ring and sensor is is a good call.

Another problem can be that this ring cracks / splits and requires replacing. I had this on a  a Ford Granada some years ago which had to be replaced by a local garage.

Romel

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Re: ABS SYSTEM CHECK and VSA SYSTEM CHECK have come on
« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2023, 04:20:55 PM »
Update --- today morning, once the speed reached 20+mph, alarm disappeared. Braked several times, soft & sudden - warning did not trigger. Will receive the brake pedal switch today. Also planning to check/overall the calipers and cleaning of the speed sensors. Checked electrical connection to ABS, connectors look tight. While coming back in the evening, in one signal again warning light came up - switched off the engine and started - after reaching 20+mph warning disappeared.
Can someone suggest me or give the idea, how much the following jobs will cost in Liverpool & also if any recommended garage.
1. Remove, dismantle, clean & assemble back all the brake calipers.
2. Clean the speed sensors.
Thank you in advance.

GSX600FMAN

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Re: ABS SYSTEM CHECK and VSA SYSTEM CHECK have come on
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2023, 07:06:08 AM »
I would say only a garage can give you that quote.
I believe your symptoms are indicative of rust/debri/flaves interfering with one of your wheel speed/ABS sensor. When you stop, slow down and start driving, that debris gets the chance to be picked up by that sensor giving a fault. When the wheel (reluctor ABS toothed ring) gets fast enough, in your case 20MPH that debris is dislodges and clears the 'fault'.
The easiest and cheapest thing to do is that when you get the oppertunity, at each wheel, jack the car up, remove the wheel, locate thet sensor, remove it and look fro scratching or debris. If it is clean and undamaged, replace it. Also at that time inspect the cable from the sensor to where it enters the car for damage. This will cost you nothing but dirty knees and hands and a sunburnt back.
BTW if a sensor is stuborn or seized, leave it for now and do th eother wheels.
Do a search on Youtube for:- 'test speed sensor'..
theres a good graphical explainatyion with the title 'Wheel Speed Sensor Operation & Testing'
ill add some photos for help.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2023, 07:13:41 AM by GSX600FMAN »

GSX600FMAN

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Re: ABS SYSTEM CHECK and VSA SYSTEM CHECK have come on
« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2023, 07:12:10 AM »
this is what the sensor looks like.

Romel

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Re: ABS SYSTEM CHECK and VSA SYSTEM CHECK have come on
« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2023, 11:52:52 AM »
Thanks a lot. Appreciate your effort.

Romel

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Re: ABS SYSTEM CHECK and VSA SYSTEM CHECK have come on
« Reply #14 on: June 15, 2023, 07:58:54 PM »
**** UPDATE /// SOLVED *****
Today went to garage for servicing all the 4 calipers. None of the calipers piston found seized. Unfortunately both the rear caliper carriers (Photo of the item attached) found to be seized with brake pads. Brake pads were hardly sliding. It took almost an hour to free up. Hope the problem is solved......
« Last Edit: June 15, 2023, 08:01:09 PM by Romel »

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