Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums
Honda Jazz Forums => Honda Jazz Mk2 2008-2015 => Topic started by: Calimo on September 26, 2018, 07:51:02 PM
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On Friday I left my hazard lights on for about an hour and when I tried to start the car it just made a single crank. I got a jump and it started straight away. I have had no other issues until today. I was sitting in my car for about 1h 30m and my phone was on charge and I think my dash cam stayed on too. When I went to start it, it did the same thing again. I called the AA and he jumped it and it started instantly. The AA guy said that they are small batteries, but the alternator was putting out the right amount and the battery was good too.
Could those 2 incidents have caused the battery to drain or is there some other issue or could there be something else draining the battery?
Edit: I've also noticed that since this first happened I've lost about 3 mpg on the computer and it's still dropping.
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Most cars have smaller batteries these days to save weight and because engines start a lot quicker than they used to. Having the hazards on for an hour will draw 4 x 21watts / 12 = about 8 amps, but because they flash it will be less than half that so 4 amps for an hour or 4 amp hours from a 35 amp hour battery, this suggests that your battery was either in a very low state of charge from very low mileage short journeys or more probably the battery is on the way out, is it more than 5 years old. I have never ever had a problem with battery on a Jazz going flat. When a car starts first turn of the key ( which our jazzes always did and still do ) it will take about 2% of a full battery charge.
Phone and dashcam would take very little power from battery.
The jazz battery is plenty big enough for its purpose providing it is in decent condition. Any battery over 5 years old is living on borrowed time, we are lucky in UK that our batteries last a long time, in hot countries like Africa, Australia and southern USA they can fail in less than 2 years.
I suggest you get a new Yuasa battery before the winter, otherwise you will be jump starting it a lot of times. It may be that boot light is staying on, anything bigger like heated screen or aircon relay stuck would flatten battery completely overnight.
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Sounds like you need a new battery, how old is this one?
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Most cars have smaller batteries these days to save weight and because engines start a lot quicker than they used to. Having the hazards on for an hour will draw 4 x 21watts / 12 = about 8 amps, but because they flash it will be less than half that so 4 amps for an hour or 4 amp hours from a 35 amp hour battery, this suggests that your battery was either in a very low state of charge from very low mileage short journeys or more probably the battery is on the way out, is it more than 5 years old. I have never ever had a problem with battery on a Jazz going flat. When a car starts first turn of the key ( which our jazzes always did and still do ) it will take about 2% of a full battery charge.
Phone and dashcam would take very little power from battery.
The jazz battery is plenty big enough for its purpose providing it is in decent condition. Any battery over 5 years old is living on borrowed time, we are lucky in UK that our batteries last a long time, in hot countries like Africa, Australia and southern USA they can fail in less than 2 years.
I suggest you get a new Yuasa battery before the winter, otherwise you will be jump starting it a lot of times. It may be that boot light is staying on, anything bigger like heated screen or aircon relay stuck would flatten battery completely overnight.
I see. The AA guy said that the battery was fine though.
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Sounds like you need a new battery, how old is this one?
I'm not sure, I've only had the car 8 months. Also, the AA guy said the battery was okay.
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Sounds like you need a new battery, how old is this one?
I'm not sure, I've only had the car 8 months. Also, the AA guy said the battery was okay.
It is very hard to know if a battery is OK as you cannot see inside and you need to charge and load test it ( draw about 200 amps ) which I guess the AA guy did not do. The fact that your battery has been fully flat a few times will have damaged it anyway and you do not know its history as you have only had the car a few months. Get a new battery and write the date on the label with permanent pen, that way in future if someone else buys the car they will know when it was fitted. Flat batteries and punctures are the main problems with vehicles, you cannot predict or prevent a puncture but your battery is giving you warning of imminent problems and failure - don't ignore it..... winter will soon be here.
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Good morning everyone.
Calimo you battery sounds exactly like my sons batteries. Work perfectly and out of the blue (sitting in a car park playing CD's for 30 minutes) flat battery. Both Jazzes did the same thing. Youngest's battery was only 12 months old, went back to battery specialist (where he bought it), no battery is fine. They both continued to have intermittent problems. I changed the eldest sons with a Yuasa (I actually ordered two by mistake) and he has had no problem since. Youngest with 12 month old battery, I put my 5 year old one on his car as I had fitted the other Yuasa to mine (though I wasn't experiencing any problems) and his problem has also gone. He knows he needs to get a new battery now. Two examples, very intermittent problems but both been fine for over 6 months now.
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I have always been a firm believer in, the first sign of battery problems, replace the battery. I have never been let down afterwards.
A car that won't stop can be driven (carefully and illegally), but a car that won't start is only of use for keeping chickens in!
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You may find your steering is playing up as well, MK2 Jazz electric power steering draws 60 amps. With EPS on modern cars the battery needs to be in good shape (and a good battery, preferably one beginning in 'Y' and ending in 'A' ;) ).
Not all batteries are created equal, I have had German ones (but probably made in China) on motorbikes that have been pretty bad and have failed early (normally on the bike when I bought it ) - I will always fit a Y***A and never regretted it - if you work out a battery cost out as a price per year of service they work out cheaper anyway and you have peace of mind.
Yuasa Silver is the dogs dangly bits - and a 5 year warranty :o
As Jocko says, a car that won't start is only good for keeping chickens in.
Many people buy an emergency starter battery because the car battery is playing up, but instead of doing that spend the extra money on a good quality battery and you wont need the emergency kit (which many people put in boot or glovebox and forget about anyway and when the time comes to use it - guess what it is flat anyway).
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You may find your steering is playing up as well, MK2 Jazz electric power steering draws 60 amps. With EPS on modern cars the battery needs to be in good shape (and a good battery, preferably one beginning in 'Y' and ending in 'A' ;) ).
Not all batteries are created equal, I have had German ones (but probably made in China) on motorbikes that have been pretty bad and have failed early (normally on the bike when I bought it ) - I will always fit a Y***A and never regretted it - if you work out a battery cost out as a price per year of service they work out cheaper anyway and you have peace of mind.
Yuasa Silver is the dogs dangly bits - and a 5 year warranty :o
As Jocko says, a car that won't start is only good for keeping chickens in.
Many people buy an emergency starter battery because the car battery is playing up, but instead of doing that spend the extra money on a good quality battery and you wont need the emergency kit (which many people put in boot or glovebox and forget about anyway and when the time comes to use it - guess what it is flat anyway).
What model do I need for a 2009 automatic jazz?
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You may find your steering is playing up as well, MK2 Jazz electric power steering draws 60 amps. With EPS on modern cars the battery needs to be in good shape (and a good battery, preferably one beginning in 'Y' and ending in 'A' ;) ).
Not all batteries are created equal, I have had German ones (but probably made in China) on motorbikes that have been pretty bad and have failed early (normally on the bike when I bought it ) - I will always fit a Y***A and never regretted it - if you work out a battery cost out as a price per year of service they work out cheaper anyway and you have peace of mind.
Yuasa Silver is the dogs dangly bits - and a 5 year warranty :o
As Jocko says, a car that won't start is only good for keeping chickens in.
Many people buy an emergency starter battery because the car battery is playing up, but instead of doing that spend the extra money on a good quality battery and you wont need the emergency kit (which many people put in boot or glovebox and forget about anyway and when the time comes to use it - guess what it is flat anyway).
What model do I need for a 2009 automatic jazz?
https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=10404.msg64255#msg64255
If you have an automatic a good battery is even more important as you cannot bump start automatics.
Yuasa silver is better than OEM in a/h and cranking amps ( 40 against 35 and 340 against 280 )
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You may find your steering is playing up as well, MK2 Jazz electric power steering draws 60 amps. With EPS on modern cars the battery needs to be in good shape (and a good battery, preferably one beginning in 'Y' and ending in 'A' ;) ).
Not all batteries are created equal, I have had German ones (but probably made in China) on motorbikes that have been pretty bad and have failed early (normally on the bike when I bought it ) - I will always fit a Y***A and never regretted it - if you work out a battery cost out as a price per year of service they work out cheaper anyway and you have peace of mind.
Yuasa Silver is the dogs dangly bits - and a 5 year warranty :o
As Jocko says, a car that won't start is only good for keeping chickens in.
Many people buy an emergency starter battery because the car battery is playing up, but instead of doing that spend the extra money on a good quality battery and you wont need the emergency kit (which many people put in boot or glovebox and forget about anyway and when the time comes to use it - guess what it is flat anyway).
What model do I need for a 2009 automatic jazz?
I would use the following link and input your details to get the right battery:
https://www.yuasa.co.uk/
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You may find your steering is playing up as well, MK2 Jazz electric power steering draws 60 amps. With EPS on modern cars the battery needs to be in good shape (and a good battery, preferably one beginning in 'Y' and ending in 'A' ;) ).
Not all batteries are created equal, I have had German ones (but probably made in China) on motorbikes that have been pretty bad and have failed early (normally on the bike when I bought it ) - I will always fit a Y***A and never regretted it - if you work out a battery cost out as a price per year of service they work out cheaper anyway and you have peace of mind.
Yuasa Silver is the dogs dangly bits - and a 5 year warranty :o
As Jocko says, a car that won't start is only good for keeping chickens in.
Many people buy an emergency starter battery because the car battery is playing up, but instead of doing that spend the extra money on a good quality battery and you wont need the emergency kit (which many people put in boot or glovebox and forget about anyway and when the time comes to use it - guess what it is flat anyway).
What model do I need for a 2009 automatic jazz?
I would use the following link and input your details to get the right battery:
https://www.yuasa.co.uk/
Can a bad battery increase fuel consumption? Maybe the engine has to idle faster to make the alternator work more to keep the cars equipment running?
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Can a bad battery increase fuel consumption? Maybe the engine has to idle faster to make the alternator work more to keep the cars equipment running?
The engine doesn't idle faster if the battery is in poor condition. The bad battery usually only shows up when trying to start the car. A charged but poor battery will still show 13 or so volts across its terminals but it is unable to supply the current needed to start the car.
I have owned five Jazz's and had to change the battery on two of them, usually at about the six years old point.I have never noticed the reported effect on the power steering when the batteries have been poorly sick.
Vic.
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Hi
I used MDSBattery.co.uk and bought (2 my mistake) Yuasa batteries model no YBX5054 which is part of the silver range.
Fast delivery, very good price and no problems whatsoever. I would buy from them again anyway. Currently £64.95 with free delivery.
https://www.mdsbattery.co.uk/yuasa-ybx5054-silver-12v-40ah-054-car-battery.html
Cheers
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My Mk2 ES+ CVT was built early 2014 and has a Varta battery - is this original fitment ? I would have expected a Yuasa battery. I left an interior light on for 24 hours and the battery was dead (I might have noticed if the light was brighter, or perhaps if I was brighter :)). I charged it and the battery appears to be OK, its green indicator is now lit, as before the discharge.
I'm a bit disappointed that such a small light could discharge the battery so that I didn't even get a single crank out of the engine - especially as the light (one of the pair behind the mirror) was so useless that I'd forgot that I had switched it on. The car is normally fine if left for a week or so, so I don't think there are any non-intentional drains on the battery.
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I would be a bit disappointed too, as it is only an 8 watt bulb drawing about 670 mA. If your battery is the original it may be a bit tired by now. The green indicator only shows the condition (SG) of one cell.
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Original battery could be any make ( lowest bidder ) - I have had problems with Varta batteries in the past, only get Yuasa now, for cars and bikes.
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Thanks for the comments. I can't find any mention of battery replacement in the service history, so I assume it's the original. The Varta battery in my wife's Clio is now 9 years old and is still going strong, but is a much bigger battery, physically. I often used to use the 'map' lights in my primera and they were decent lights, and never caused any problems.
I've tried looking for some LED lights to replace the useless cabin lights, but no luck so far. I'll put an LED torch in the car to use for now.
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@Jocko - absolutely spot on. Oddly enough, the battery has just gone flat on my new (to me) Jazz and it looks like the original battery on my 2013 model, so I'm just replacing it. (SteveOne) if it helps, the battery on my 2013 is the original Varta unit and it's quite a small battery - but given the Jazz's diddy bonnet I guess that's understandable - real estate is at a premium under there.
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Thanks nigelr, I think my Varta battery is probably the original. It's been OK since I recharged it and the car starts easily. I don't use the cabin lights anymore, and I wouldn't be happy listening to the radio with the engine off - such as I might do when waiting for someone at the station.
I was told that the Jazz battery was physically small before I bought one, I'm glad I didn't get the Mk3 which has even more electical load, including stop/start. In fact, the more I hear about the Mk3 - including DMFs - the happier I am with the Mk2.
When I have a nice cold morning and I can put a high load onto the battery, I'll hook my oscilloscope across the terminals (with a 20sec timebase) and see what happens during a start - failing batteries typically show large downward spikes on the trace.
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When I have a nice cold morning and I can put a high load onto the battery, I'll hook my oscilloscope across the terminals (with a 20sec timebase) and see what happens during a start - failing batteries typically show large downward spikes on the trace.
There's no need to get so scientific: First put the headlights on and see if they go dim when the starter motor is in use.
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I have never had either a MK1 or MK2 Jazz battery even look like going flat on me, so I don't think small battery size is the problem - modern EFI cars start a lot easier than they used to and modern alternators are better at charging battery on short runs and moder control circuits control the charge voltage better, but the big killer of batteries is keeping them in a low state of charge (<80%). But I don't leave a battery on a car longer than 5 years, after that they are on borrowed time. Especially with a CVT you need to fit the best battery you can afford as if you have battery problems there is no way of starting the car except the battery or a jump start.
failing batteries typically show large downward spikes on the trace.
As a battery gets older its internal resistance increases, that means that when you draw starting amps (say 200 amps) from a new battery the voltage at terminals may drop to 9 volts, as battery ages the terminal voltage drops when current is drawn and at 5 years old it may be nearer 6 or 7 volts. That is why some garages pretend to give a battery a load test, but their kit will not draw enough current to get meaningful results.
As John Ratsey says, just get someone to watch headlights dim ( may not work with LED bulbs though) - like an oscilloscope but cheaper......
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The original Yuasa battery in our Toyota Yaris died at 10 years old#. The 6 year old Yuasa battery in the Jazz appears to be going strong (touch wood!).
# Its replacement - a Bosch (from ECP) - died at 3 years into a 4 year warranty and its (free) Exide replacement is now 2.5 years old .
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Glad it's sorted, Steve. I agree about the Mk3 - and most newer cars in general - increasing number of electrical circuits and loads -- I'm not a fan of stop / start -- and I too am happy with my Mk2.
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I have a Mk 1 but I turn of the ignition every time I stop at a known long traffic light (well, at least if it turns red as I approach!). Most of my travel is on short local routes, where I know when to switch off and when not. I never have any bother with battery issues, even though I listen to the radio when parked waiting for my wife (a regular occurrence) and leave the car doors open when washing and polishing the car. My battery is 2 years old (RAC, 5 years guarantee).
I have just come back from dropping my wife at her work. Because car is kept in the garage, I start it, drive out then switch off after 10 seconds while I go to lock the garage door. I then drive her to work, switch off while she gathers her things and until I see her safely into the building, and today (as usual), I got stuck at the 3 minute traffic light. So I switch off there too. I do switch to sidelights while sitting, but I have my blower on (no need for rear demister since car was garaged). That is my Monday to Friday throughout the winter. 3.6 miles at 6 am, then the same to pick her up at lunch time.
I don't know if I am just lucky, or if the low tech of the Mk 1 (no alarm, remote locking driver assist sensors, etc) places much less demand on the battery
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Hello Jocko. I agree - a car battery should be able to handle that sort of use without any problems. Perhaps the Jazz protected the battery from too much current drain, the locks all worked, the dash lights came on, but the mult-information display didn't, and the engine wouldn't turn over. The battery appears to have recovered without any problems, and the car starts easily after being left for several days.
I don't know why others think the oscilloscope is so difficult - It's not much much bigger than a DVM, and I just clip it onto the battery terminals - it just gives me a display relative to time and lets me measure voltage drops etc, I can use the headlights & HRW to add to the load. The test didn't show any problem, probably because the engine fires up immediately.
I don't use the interior lights anymore
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I don't know why others think the oscilloscope is so difficult - It's not much much bigger than a DVM, and I just clip it onto the battery terminals - it just gives me a display relative to time and lets me measure voltage drops etc, I can use the headlights & HRW to add to the load. The test didn't show any problem, probably because the engine fires up immediately.
I don't use the interior lights anymore
99% of normal people don't have a oscilloscope in their toolbox - I used to use them for catching transient events and complex waveforms, but for checking car battery voltage drop, nahhhh ! If I had paid for one and was looking to use it, maybe - but IMHO bit of an overkill.
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In my experience 99% of electrical engineers don't have an oscilloscope in their tool box, but it you have it, why not use it. Scopes have come a long way from what I cut my teeth on.
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRWMRrloavFQSCrSlfmw183cDjy43uUbSY0Mpug36loG2BqBjc-)
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Just been reading through these posts on Honda Jazz and wondering if someone can help me out as have similar fault.
Have an ongoing nightmare of an issue with my 'Honda Jazz MK2 1.4se 2005 model.
Garage replaced EPS Control unit and same fault intermittently reoccurring ? All fault codes have been cleared via OBI.
Car starts 1st time every time even if left parked up for a week without any use albeit, now too dangerous to drive as when EPS light comes on its like driving a tank.
Battery appears to be ok although, not an original Honda Battery but been on car for 2.5 years so far and guaranteed for 5. Also, have noted some people posting on other sites that when control unit is replaced, it has to be ''calibrated'' reset? And others say, just do a straight swap /plug and play so to speak?
Any help or advice on this greatly appreciated.
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Do you have a record of the EPS fault codes?
I'm no expert on the EPS, but I'm pretty sure you would have to at least have to calibrate the torque sensor zero position, as this data is stored in the EPS module and will be unique to each column.
Dealer would use Honda HDS to do this, but there are aftermarket systems that have full access to Honda EPS.
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Would a poor connection somewhere cause this problem? The EPS takes a lot of power so even a small amount of electrical resistance in a deteriorating connection would cause a significant voltage drop.
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Would a poor connection somewhere cause this problem? The EPS takes a lot of power so even a small amount of electrical resistance in a deteriorating connection would cause a significant voltage drop.
Certainly, good thinking.
For starters, it would be worth checking all the battery and alternator connections, and particularly the engine/gearbox earth straps - which can cause all sorts of strange symptoms.
I wondered if we might deduce something like that from the fault codes, if they are known.
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Many thanks everyone for those replies.
Will speak with garage next week and ask for exact fault codes. Although the technician working on my car is very experienced so would like to think they know where to for any codes that flag up. So far nothing obvious has been found.
Read somewhere someone spent a fortune relatively speaking trying to cure this problem and just changed battery after having whole column and control box replaced. Dont understand why a working battery that still powers the car and all electrics would fail EPS ?
Be so glad to get this thing fixed.
Thanks again
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Dont understand why a working battery that still powers the car and all electrics would fail EPS ?
It's because the EPS puts large spikes of current demand on the battery and alternator system, and this will show up any failing components, bad earths, etc..
Fault codes rarely point you directly to the cause of any problems, but any fault codes relating to system voltage or motor current, and I would be suspicious that it's a power supply issue, or possibly EPS motor brushes.
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Many thanks Sparky Paul.
Will report back hopefully within 2 weeks from now as to what this EPS fault is. They also replaced the EPS control unit.
Do you know if these are just plug and play so to speak ? Be real good if this turns out to only be the battery.
Is there something significant about Honda Jazz batteries' as just wondering why they cant jump from another cars battery to see if it switches off EPS warning light which is more on... than off ?
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Do you know if these are just plug and play so to speak ? Be real good if this turns out to only be the battery.
As above, I think that the torque sensor centre position has to be calibrated, it's unique to each column.
Is there something significant about Honda Jazz batteries' as just wondering why they cant jump from another cars battery to see if it switches off EPS warning light which is more on... than off ?
It's the whole battery/alternator/charging system. The battery is particularly small on the Jazz, but most of the power is coming from the alternator when the engine is running - hence the EPS doesn't function without the engine running. The battery maintains the system voltage and smoothes out the peaks demanded by the EPS when you turn the wheel.
The problem is that there are lots of reasons why the EPS ECU would decide to shut the EPS down, including system voltage drops.
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Cheers Sparky Paul and you explained that incredibly well as by knowledge is quite poor. Your info gives me further things to look at.
Many thanks,
Jazzy
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