Author Topic: use spare wheel from 2010 Jazz on 2017 SE Alloy: Safe? Temporarily safe? Stupid?  (Read 480 times)

Marshal

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With my previous Jazz I had steel wheels and the recommended tire size was 175/65 R15 84H. I bought a spare wheel as I have no confidence in those spray cans (persuade me?).

Now I'm getting a new Jazz SE which has alloy wheels (which I'd rather not have, but there you go). The new wheels want tires 185/60 R15 84H.

My dealer assures me that the old spare will fit on the new car - and this was to dissuade me from getting one of they narrow not-really-wheels - when a salesguy tells you /not/ to buy something you listen, right?

As far as I can see, the steel wheel tire is about 1cm narrower and may have a slightly bigger diameter. Here's what I'm looking to find out. Is it:

a) a really silly idea as the wheels won't even bolt on
b) a dangerous idea as the wheel would attach but make the car behave unpredictably
c) an ok idea if I use the spare just to complete my journey and get the proper wheel back on asap
d) just fine, go ahead, what could possibly happen?
e) other   

Grateful for feedback 

Jocko

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If you treat the spare as you would a get you home tyre you should experience no problems. Obviously you cannot use it as a fifth wheel, to be mixed and matched to suit your fancy, but provided you follow the same rules as you would a temporary spare you will be fine.
My previous car, a Volvo S40 had alloys and a steel spare which was of smaller rolling diameter, narrower and with a different aspect ratio. All it had in common with the other four wheels on the car were the holes in the centre!

Deeps

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If it fits on the car I would use it as a space saver "pram wheel" would be used. Minimum time to get you to a repair. Don't forget to keep the Jack and wheel brace, also the boot floor may not fit with the wheel as the space saver kit comes with a different floor support and tool stowage.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2017, 10:44:54 AM by Deeps »

sparky Paul

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I have no confidence in those spray cans (persuade me?).

No amount of spray goob is going to help when you have a sidewall punctured by a strip of metal.

As for putting a steel wheel with a different size tyre on as a spare, technically you could be pulled and done for having mixed tyre sizes on an axle, but whether that is likely... probably not. What would happen in the event of an accident is another matter however...

Space saver wheels are another thing, they are brightly coloured and speed restricted, so you risk a pull if exceeding the 50mph stamped all over it. They are also designed to be a get-you-home affair, and there have been cases where drivers have been prosecuted after admitting using the wheel longer than this.

What you could do when you next have some tyres fitted is have one of the old 185/60x15 tyres fitted to the steel spare, that way you are all perfectly legal - providing the old tyre has a legal tread left of course. A tyre fitter shouldn't charge for this if you agree beforehand, you could manage without valve & balance on the spare, and you could always sell a good 175/65x15 afterwards.

zzaj

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If you treat the spare as you would a get you home tyre you should experience no problems. Obviously you cannot use it as a fifth wheel, to be mixed and matched to suit your fancy, but provided you follow the same rules as you would a temporary spare you will be fine.

My understanding is that this is correct.

I have no confidence in those spray cans (persuade me?).

No amount of spray goob is going to help when you have a sidewall punctured by a strip of metal.

As for putting a steel wheel with a different size tyre on as a spare, technically you could be pulled and done for having mixed tyre sizes on an axle, but whether that is likely... probably not. What would happen in the event of an accident is another matter however...

Space saver wheels are another thing, they are brightly coloured and speed restricted, so you risk a pull if exceeding the 50mph stamped all over it. They are also designed to be a get-you-home affair, and there have been cases where drivers have been prosecuted after admitting using the wheel longer than this.

What you could do when you next have some tyres fitted is have one of the old 185/60x15 tyres fitted to the steel spare, that way you are all perfectly legal - providing the old tyre has a legal tread left of course. A tyre fitter shouldn't charge for this if you agree beforehand, you could manage without valve & balance on the spare, and you could always sell a good 175/65x15 afterwards.


My understanding is that this is incorrect. I don't think the concept of a spacesaver tyre is legislated for as such. The "restriction label" is a manufacturer warning notice.  The temporary wheel should be different to the others. If the spare is steel and the others are alloy that will be fine.

You should not change the tyre size. As long as the tyre size and wheel were compatible before they will be going forward.

Therefore your dealer is correct.

If you use the spare, just act responsibly. Do not drive aggressively, do not exceed 50mph and only use the spare as a temporary wheel to get you  to a tyre repairer in the normal way. Have no fear.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2017, 03:41:49 PM by zzaj »

Downsizer

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As Deeps has said, your biggest problem is where to carry this temporary spare.  It will definitely not fit under the new boot as supplied.  Honda will sell you an alternative underfloor structure for just under 200, but this includes spacesaver spare, jack etc, which defeats the object of your enquiry.  Elsewhere in this forum is extensive discussion of DIY alternative boot floor supports for the Mk 3 Jazzif you're prepared to do a bit of work.

culzean

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Bit off this topic.

My Civic is weird,  it came with gunk and electric pump which I would never use, and without even a half size spare wheel so I bought one, when I got winter tyres on steel rims I thought I could use one of those for the spare (same as I did with wifes GE Jazz).  Not a hope,  the wheel well is plenty deep enough,  and wide enough - but is not long enough by a good 75mm WTF !!!   The full size spare will fit into a Jazz wheelwell but not the Civic, which is supposed to be a bigger car...............

Wondering if I loose a bit of air out of the winter tyre if I could get it in the wheelwell ??
« Last Edit: September 13, 2017, 05:21:19 PM by culzean »
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Marshal

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Have no fear.

This is what I was looking for  :)

Marshal

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As Deeps has said, your biggest problem is where to carry this temporary spare.  It will definitely not fit under the new boot as supplied.  Honda will sell you an alternative underfloor structure for just under 200, but this includes spacesaver spare, jack etc, which defeats the object of your enquiry.  Elsewhere in this forum is extensive discussion of DIY alternative boot floor supports for the Mk 3 Jazzif you're prepared to do a bit of work.

Yes - not sure how I'm going to do that - the previous version had a full-blown well that a normal wheel went in. I guess I'll start by seeing what I can do with some bungees in the boot as it is and take it from there.

Steve_M

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I think you will find the full size wheel will fit in the well and you could use the bolt down point in the floor with it to secure it, the thing you may well have difficulty with is support the boot floor above the wheel, as you will have to remove the polystyrene toolbox that normally sits in the well.

Countries like South Africa have a full size spare wheel in Jazz/Fit models.

FredS

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I was under  the general impression that steel wheels used different wheel nuts to alloy wheels. I do not know if this applies to the jazz. Hopefully someone that knows better than me can advise.

FredS

auntyneddy

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Our old Rover had alloys and a space saver wheel. In the handbook it stated that the same wheel nuts fitted both alloy and steel wheel. Unfortunately when I sold the Rover I did not keep the space saver which had never been used.
I looked out for a Rover25/45 spacesaver and although some breakers will not sell them as they are over five years old some will I paid 25 for ours, never been used and then got a wheel securing nut from a Rover 2 and it all fitted into our MK2.
Legality:  I informed my Insurance company Royal Sun Alliance and all they said was to make sure it was used according to the manufacturers recommendations for a skinny get you home.
It has been in the 'boot' for 3 yrs and I actually had to put some air into it last week. Incidentally the pump supplied with the Honda  is quite accurate and saves a lot of leg work.
I believe MyTyres will sell you a steel wheel and tyre for considerably less than Honda and as Jocko says if you only use it as a get you home job then you should be fine, There is a website that gives you all the compatible wheels that will fit a Jazz and bearing in mind a Rover was a Honda I should think the info re wheel nuts is still applicable. My Insurers were not the least bit concerned even when I told them where the wheel came from. There only caveat was it must be road legal.

Deeps

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I was under  the general impression that steel wheels used different wheel nuts to alloy wheels. I do not know if this applies to the jazz. Hopefully someone that knows better than me can advise.

FredS

My steel space saver wheel uses the alloy wheel nuts. A standard steel wheel could well use nuts with a different shaped mating surface. You could check the part numbers for steel and alloy wheel nuts.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2017, 04:33:10 PM by Deeps »

culzean

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I was under  the general impression that steel wheels used different wheel nuts to alloy wheels. I do not know if this applies to the jazz. Hopefully someone that knows better than me can advise.

FredS

My steel space saver wheel uses the alloy wheel nuts. A standard steel wheel could well use nuts with a different shaped mating surface. You could check the part numbers for steel and alloy wheel nuts.

alloys and steel use 60 degree taper nuts,  except I believe some VW group (why ? they don't need a reason, it's just because they are German)  my brother mentioned 'a hemispherical shape on his Skoda Octavia - and they use bolts instead of studs,  bad luck if thread strips in the hub........  :(    (also because the bolt screws into / through the hub flange into an open ended hole (rather than a stud with a closed 'acorn' nut) I'm supposing rusting of the thread making it hard to get bolt back out may be a problem).

I regularly swap steel and alloy wheels on my wifes Jazz and my Civic - all I did first time with the domed Chrome (Acorn) nuts was measure the length of stud sticking through the steel wheel (steel wheels are thinner than alloys) and make sure there was enough depth of thread in the nut so that stud did not 'bottom out' - there was plenty of depth.

Most if not all alloys have a steel insert cast in to take the nut angle,  I think maybe a long time ago alloys didn't have this and had to use a different taper or shape to steel nuts because the alloy was softer than steel and was maybe liable to split or crack with 60 degree nuts.

When a centre spigot on the wheel hub is used which is a very good fit into the hole in centre of wheel (almost universal these days) this takes a lot of the load off the studs and makes sure the wheel is running perfectly central to the axle.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 08:03:40 AM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

culzean

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Countries like South Africa have a full size spare wheel in Jazz/Fit models.

Same in Aussie,  the big distances involved would be painfull to drive at 50mph when the nearest town is 500 miles away,  and at night LOL
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

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