Most of my driving is urban or along country roads however it is very hilly in the immediate area where I live so I am wondering if that is not a good situation for a hybrid. My driving style is relaxed and I am usually light on the throttle. any advice would be appreciated.
The one gearbox I will not be getting is DSG. The failure and replacement cost is high. The other thing with DSG is slow speed manoeuvring like parallel parking or reversing into a garage. It's not a smooth manoeuvre but a series of kangaroo hops.
DSG is make or break so you can't drive slowly, pseudo clutch slip. I drove one and it was horrendous. When they were a wet clutch design they were manageable but the later dry clutch models ...... no
I was glad to see Ford have dropped their DSG ala PowerShift as it was proving unreliable and a couple of mass class action lawsuits are pending.
Latest Jazz does not have a CVT or a DSG or any sort of gearbox at all. It has an electric drive motor intelligently wired to a generator alongside. For marketing reasons Honda call this eCVT. The engine connects to the driveshafts at higher speeds but the ratio is fixed, again no gearbox.A fact well known here but not by motoring journalists. Welcome to the forum—plenty knowledgeable Jazz owners here with years of Jazz experience, many owners of the Mk 4.
I think the drive is fantastic, and good flat handling and roadholding. My previous drive was an Audi S3, resulting in a dislocated liver on any road hump.
Maybe that's because of the EX 16" inches rims.16-inch rims always make for a rougher ride, on some cars worse than others.
Interesting, so the old quirk of CVT over rev doesn't happen.The engine will rev if you want a sustained supply of power for acceleration or hill climbing and once it's over around 3000 rpm then the engine becomes audible. However, I think a difference from the CVT behaviour is that the engine revs on the eCVT are more constant rather than varying as some excess / shortfall of power can be accommodated by the battery. A constant engine noise is less obtrusive than one which keeps varying. However, engine noise is an infrequent feature on my journeys - most trips are completed without obvious engine noise although I can now detect the sound difference between car running only on battery and using the engine.
16-inch rims always make for a rougher ride, on some cars worse than others.
I can now detect the sound difference between car running only on battery and using the engine.
I'm just bothered a tad by the dampening on bumpy streets at low speed, which is not as smooth as my previous ride. Kinda like the whole front axle is wobbling on first impact. Disturbing.We bought the Exec for its luxury features but stepped down on the summer allows to 15'' and Michelins. Now with 16'' with winter tyres the bumps are more noticable and I wish I've gone with 15'' in winter too. With 15'' the ride is quite comfortable.
Maybe that's because of the EX 16" inches rims.
I think the drive is fantastic, and good flat handling and roadholding. My previous drive was an Audi S3, resulting in a dislocated liver on any road hump.
I like mine 99% so far.
I'm just bothered a tad by the dampening on bumpy streets at low speed, which is not as smooth as my previous ride. Kinda like the whole front axle is wobbling on first impact. Disturbing.
Maybe that's because of the EX 16" inches rims.
I also wonder if the textile seat bolster will wear as well as a leather one.If its anything like the textile seats in my 14-year-old, 131,000 miles Mk 1 then you have no worries. My driving seat is a bit grubby, but a professional clean and it would be like new.
My main journey is the M4 from J3 to 10 which is going to be a smart motorway soon so as you say, probably safer to leap over the barrier and wait.
the eSIM will probably use the best of whatever phone signals it can find whereas my phone is stuck with one network. Otherwise it'll be necessary to walk up a hill in search of a signal.
The CVT is never linked to the wheels.
But since there is no real CVT, it's all fixed ratio and managed through a clever use of clutch, be it mechanical or electrical.See this for an excellent demonstration of how the eCVT works
But since there is no real CVT, it's all fixed ratio and managed through a clever use of clutch, be it mechanical or electrical.See this for an excellent demonstration of how the eCVT works.
But since there is no real CVT, it's all fixed ratio and managed through a clever use of clutch, be it mechanical or electrical.See this for an excellent demonstration of how the eCVT works.
Thanks for this John. Really fascinating. Watched the whole thing, which is unusual for me. Often I would get bored and switch off.
The one burning question for me after watching this is how the wiring works. With both motors spinning in that same axis, how are the cables connected for power in and out? It seems like the whole thing is spinning and there are no stationary parts to attach to.
I have issues with accessing cars (yesterday I parked alongside a high kerb and I was almost lying on my back trying to get back in). I would never buy a car without checking how easy it is to access and if my other half, and regular passenger, had problems I think I would make sure she could get in and out of the passenger seat with ease before buying.
Your HR-V's other niceties had that the new Jazz/Crosstar hasn't should have been checked on a first look or at least by checking the brochure.
It won’t try and charge the battery when full. In D there is very little regen anyway.That’s what I thought but the graphic still kept showing the green lines going into the battery. If I accelerated hard and the battery went down by a bar, the next braking or rolling I did put it back to full. I don’t even charge my phone past 80%, so a bit worrying.
I think you are overthinking this. You should not have to actively manage the charge in your battery - in your car or your phone. They have systems built in to do that themselves. On your vehicle, the green lines going in to your battery when on full charge will most likely just be to indicate flow direction rather than tell you there is actual charging going on. My Toyota is exactly the same. Just let the car do it's thing and concentrate on driving is my mantra.It won’t try and charge the battery when full. In D there is very little regen anyway.That’s what I thought but the graphic still kept showing the green lines going into the battery. If I accelerated hard and the battery went down by a bar, the next braking or rolling I did put it back to full. I don’t even charge my phone past 80%, so a bit worrying.
Now, I won't buy a new guitar, a TV, or phone, without a half hour or so searching Google for info. I would certainly spend a day or two before spending £20K+ on a car.
The Jazz brochure has two pages with all the specs of what you get and what model you get it on.
(https://i.imgur.com/55RVsbo.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/b7FjEhl.jpg)
I have also downloaded the manual for the Jazz/Crosstar as well as the Honda e and MG5, all of which are on my radar.
It is hardly an onerous task.
I remember reading Arthur Hailey's book "Wheels" (1971), set around the US motor manufacturing industry. In there it was explaining how a penny saved here and a penny saved there, a stiffening ridge removed from a panel, a simpler seat design, over the production lifetime of a model, comes to a great deal of money for the motor manufacturer.But if they lose just one sale because of the penny pinching ??
Why do you think they don’t fit a height adjustable passenger seat? They have the seat from left hand drive versions so why not fit it and make both seats adjustable like almost all manufacturers do. It seems such a silly omission from what is a premium priced car and is just one more reason why potential buyers will think twice - like the non dipping mirror etc. Seems questionable marketing to lose sales for such minor items specially because you cannot even spec it as a paid for add-on.Manufacturers want you to buy the most expensive car they can sell you because there’s more profit in that. So if they can nudge you towards a different, bigger, model by leaving some toys out of their smaller cars, why wouldn’t they?
@jocko: Your logic is flawed. The car that I just declined at the dealers needs to be sold to someone else, who would have bought the car in any case. So Honda/The dealer sell one car instead of two.The dealer may have lost a sale, but if Honda builds 10,000,000 of the new Jazz they sell 10,000,000 of them. Someone somewhere will buy it.
It is market driven. Look at the extreme, if they produced a car without a passenger seat at all and sales were down, would they still run 10,000,000 off the production line? I don't think so.@jocko: Your logic is flawed. The car that I just declined at the dealers needs to be sold to someone else, who would have bought the car in any case. So Honda/The dealer sell one car instead of two.The dealer may have lost a sale, but if Honda builds 10,000,000 of the new Jazz they sell 10,000,000 of them. Someone somewhere will buy it.
Last summer’s cars (in general, not specific to Honda) had problems with low 12v batteries on delivery - there were lots of cars that had been sat in the docks since March.That must include my Crosstar which was ex-stock in July 2020. The car has been unused during the lockdowns and the 12V battery appears to self-discharge surprisingly quickly and drops to about 11.8V after 2 weeks. I'm therefore giving it top-up charges to try and keep it healthy. An unhealthy 12V battery won't stop the vehicle from starting as it only acts as an intermediatery between the HV battery (which holds its charge very well) and the 12V accessories.
I don’t get the mirrors thing (that’s what the camera and guidance system is for) but the seat would be nice.
I don’t like auto dimming mirrors, they’re never dark enough.
I don’t like auto dimming mirrors, they’re never dark enough.
But they darken as much as doing it manually! Or at least they do on all the cars I have had with auto dimming mirrors.
It is very strange Honda don’t include it as a safety measure to avoid drivers being blinded by following cars. They fit a multitude of other systems but not something as simple as auto dimming mirrors - why?
I don’t like auto dimming mirrors, they’re never dark enough.
But they darken as much as doing it manually! Or at least they do on all the cars I have had with auto dimming mirrors.
It is very strange Honda don’t include it as a safety measure to avoid drivers being blinded by following cars. They fit a multitude of other systems but not something as simple as auto dimming mirrors - why?
Not so hard to avoid being dazzled by the vehicle behind, just move your head a bit, if the vehicle looks like its gonna be there for a while just manually dip the mirror, if I was driving at night I often just dipped the mirror before setting off. No auto dip is hardly a deal breaker for most buyers, especially most of the older generation where the Jazz is aimed. Side mirrors don't dazzle and they are fine for rear view.
This has probably already been mentioned somewhere but where are these cars built, is it in Japan ?The European Jazz Mk 4 is made in Japan as was the Mk 3 (VIN starting "J").
I think the Mk 1's were built in Japan, the Mk 2's in Swindon, were the Mk 3's built in Mexico ?
I don’t like auto dimming mirrors, they’re never dark enough.
The MY21 Jazz EX has tilting passenger mirror on reverse :D
I couldn't find out whether the Crosstar has it as well as there wasn't one in the showroom with documentation.
I saw one in the carpark and I must say, it's larger than I expected and I liked it. I've registered my interest for when test drives are available.
(https://i.imgur.com/0lFngRp.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/IRRsCXT.jpg)
Not noticed a problem on the Vauxhall, it's the first car I've had with it on. The driver's wing mirror is also auto dimming.
I did look, no auto dimming mirror, still the decades old flappy paddle :(
Not noticed a problem on the Vauxhall, it's the first car I've had with it on. The driver's wing mirror is also auto dimming.
Did you mean 'dipping'?
What is 'Low speed following'?
The MY21 Jazz EX has tilting passenger mirror on reverse :DThat's interesting! I see no mention of that feature in the current brochure or on the Honda UK website https://www.honda.co.uk/cars/new/jazz-hybrid/specification.html .
The Jazz/Crosstar is fitted with numerous advanced safety features yet isn’t fitted with such a simple safety item as an auto dipping mirror -- Why? I wonder sometimes what Honda are thinking!:D To be honest Expatman I understood you had kicked the car into the long grass and "got cold feet about moving to Honda" and "it seems that Honda has decided that drivers of their cars don’t deserve the best tyres. Sadly I think this is a deal breaker for me." Have you changed your mind then?
Why don't they do mudflaps for the Crosstar ?With all that plastic along the bottom of the sides of the Crosstar the non-availability of mudflaps hasn't worried me.
Over the years I've realised no flaps = dirt splattered sides and lower rear bumper. I've hit a Crosstar red line and now looking at the Jazz.
My other comments about lack of auto dipping mirror etc. are points I would make about any car I was considering and, yes, I do wonder what Honda are thinking by not including it. They have added multiple safety features but omitted the simple auto-dipping rear view mirror to prevent the driver being blinded by following traffic - I know the driver can manually dip the mirror but that goes for many of the safety features like lane keeping assistance etc.
Why don't they do mudflaps for the Crosstar ?
I don’t really understand the fuss about tyres on a Jazz. The difference between cheap and expensive tyres is how quickly they reach the limits of adhesion, and how they behave beyond it.Tyres are your only contact point with the road so personally I prefer that contact to be as secure as possible. Last week the roads in North Yorkshire were a mix of salted tarmac, compressed snow and ice. Driving was much safer with tyres designed to handle those conditions. If tyre safety is not important to you then fine - until you slide into someone or something. Or, of course, you don't use your vehicle in those road conditions.
Neither of which should trouble someone driving a Honda Jazz in a normal way in normal conditions.
I’ve had my share of understeer and oversteer across various cars in various situations, but only when provoked. Since I became older and duller, I haven’t had a single “dynamic” moment - because I’ve stopped looking for them ;)
Exactly, just don’t use your vehicle in those conditions... nothing short of spikes is going to help you on unexpected ice.If you don't be believe me just have a look at videos with direct comparison between summer and all season or winter tyres driving on snow on the internet. The difference in all normal performance is obvious. It's not a matter of driver skill it's simple physics!
Sliding about is going to happen regardless of tyre type - no tyre in this country is a proper winter tyre built for snow.
You’re going to slide about either way - the money would be better spent on a skid pad day so you can slide around safely.
Personally, last time I checked, I could keep a 500bhp RWD sedan on summer tyres in a straight line on ice.
I've looked at these videos. The drivers are driving in a manner no sane person would in the conditions. If you want to throw a car about in those conditions, then get winter tyres. Personally I don't.You're looking at the wrong videos! Look for the ones by AutoExpress and particularly the braking difference. However, I understand that if you live in a warmer part of the country and don't need to use your car in bad weather then regular summer tyres will suit you fine.
- no tyre in this country is a proper winter tyre built for snow.Winter tyres are just that, winter tyres. Tread design and rubber compound are specifically for cold/wet/snow. If you've never driven in those conditions using winter tyres you won't realise just how much better they can be than summer tyres.
All season will be useless is snow no matter what brand you have.I found my all-season tyres excellent in the snow. Maybe not as good as winter tyres but certainly better than summer tyres.
Exactly - nobody uses winter tyres in the UK. All season will be useless is snow no matter what brand you have.I’m sorry but that is unfounded nonsense. I have used Winter tyres for years, they are exactly the same tyres as you buy in Europe. Currently I’m on All Season tyres. We had 5 inches of snow and then ice a couple of weeks back. These tyres were amazing compared to the regular tyres they replaced.
In balance, I have never tried all season or winter tyres, so have no point of reference as to the respective advantages. BUT, and it's a big but, as I have yet to get stuck due to having technique and ability why would I change for the 3 days snow we get a year.I have always had summer tyres and never ended up stuck in the snow. I bought the all-season tyres this time because of the increased rainfall climate change is bringing us. They worked great in the recent snow, but I am sure I would have managed with the summer tyres I had on before. Ability to drive in snow will get you further than no ability and good tyres.
Also, geography comes into it. I challenge anyone to make my journey home in a Jazz on Summer tyres during the conditions we had locally a few weeks back. Generally, the hill is around 1 in 10 but with short, very steep sections with switchbacks.In balance, I have never tried all season or winter tyres, so have no point of reference as to the respective advantages. BUT, and it's a big but, as I have yet to get stuck due to having technique and ability why would I change for the 3 days snow we get a year.I have always had summer tyres and never ended up stuck in the snow. I bought the all-season tyres this time because of the increased rainfall climate change is bringing us. They worked great in the recent snow, but I am sure I would have managed with the summer tyres I had on before. Ability to drive in snow will get you further than no ability and good tyres.
Also, geography comes into it. I challenge anyone to make my journey home in a Jazz on Summer tyres during the conditions we had locally a few weeks back. Generally, the hill is around 1 in 10 but with short, very steep sections with switchbacks.Oh sure, I take that on board. I live in Suffolk, we do have a few hills, but not many! :D If I could test summer v all season tyres on a snowy slope with my abilities and see the difference, then I would be happy to alter my opinion. Never profess to know it all, every day is a school day.
I have just had a read of this. https://www.whatcar.com/advice/owning/whats-the-best-all-round-tyre/n1161 I would absolutely love to have a bash at finding out for myself the differences referenced in this test between the tyres. Would I alter my opinion if I had the opportunity to do the test? Possibly! :D Technique is everything though.
I wouldn't have thought that the MK4 is brilliant on snow on ice given the limited control an auto only box gives vs manual. Its extra 208 kg over the MK3 won't help either.
Also, geography comes into it. I challenge anyone to make my journey home in a Jazz on Summer tyres during the conditions we had locally a few weeks back. Generally, the hill is around 1 in 10 but with short, very steep sections with switchbacks.Oh sure, I take that on board. I live in Suffolk, we do have a few hills, but not many! :D If I could test summer v all season tyres on a snowy slope with my abilities and see the difference, then I would be happy to alter my opinion. Never profess to know it all, every day is a school day.
Being a biker, tyres are obsessed over on some forums and at bike meets. Ultimately, tyres are extremely important, but technique even more so. The finest rubber in the land will not save you from lack of observation and reading the road. On a bike of couse, getting it wrong will hurt.
I have just had a read of this. https://www.whatcar.com/advice/owning/whats-the-best-all-round-tyre/n1161 I would absolutely love to have a bash at finding out for myself the differences referenced in this test between the tyres. Would I alter my opinion if I had the opportunity to do the test? Possibly!......In my experience, definitely. In Austria in winter I've seen someone drive onto a sloping carpark, park the car, get out and promptly fall over because it was so slippery. The car was fine. It was well below freezing.
I found the autos brilliant in the snow—even the rear-wheel-drive Carlton. As soon as slip occurred, it would change up just as you should in a manual. Both the Cavalier and the Volvo had "Snow" mode. Basically did everything in 4th gear. Torque converter makes starting in 4th easy and practical. Above 50 mph, "Snow" mode would drop out.
The best technique in the world will hardly compensate for grip that does not exist. I rode an off road bike with semi scrambler / trials tyres on the road, and it was proper hairy on tarmac when slightest bit of damp around, back end would squirm around. Braking is more important than pulling away, most driver and riders who are not professionals need all the help they can get, as 99% of people just hit the brakes and close their eyes. My bike has ABS, and some people on bike forums pooh-pooh ABS, but it has saved me a couple of times when having to brake in wet / damp and encountering the 'banding' that councils make on road repairs ( some banding is bigger than others), instead of wheel locking up and going sideways it released the brakes and kept me shiny side up. Tyres are even more important on a motorbike than on a 4 wheeler.The CBF1000 has both linked brakes and ABS, which some folk swear is a recipe for disaster! :D I've yet to get the ABS to cut in, nor notice the linking affect braking control or performance. Hardly surprising given the couple of thousand fair weather miles I do.
They really aren't very good above 7C, horses for courses.The temperature here went from 8°C to -10°C then back to 10°C in the course of a week.
................The CBF1000 has both linked brakes and ABS, which some folk swear is a recipe for disaster! .............You always get biased opinions on these things, usually from people who haven't actually lived with them.
You always get biased opinions on these things, usually from people who haven't actually lived with them.I didn't know there were diffent linked systems. The 'press' gave some bad reviews of the linked system, certainly on the Blackbird reviews, and I think its stuck. Bit like the press say German cars are amazing and everything else is an also ran. Not true! As you say, the linked system works fine and I don't find it intrusive at all. It does make bleeding brakes a little more tricky though.
I have an NC700 with linked ABS. There are 3 ABS circuits, one for rear only, one for front brake when operated by the rear linked system, and a third for the front only. That must be expensive, which is probably why they dropped the linked system for the NC750 (just 2 circuits).
It works fine.
Definitely yes. Mine's a Crosstar, slightly softer ride and higher ground clearance. Comfortable on long journey, quiet and smooth, everything works a treat. Quick and economical, as well. A bit pricey but hopefully will hold its value. Some people complain about the lane keeping system, but most modern cars are piled with tech...
How easy is it to turn the lane keeping system off - some reports I have read suggest it is “dangerous” on country roads where you have to keep close to the edges when passing oncoming traffic because the steering “jerks” you into the path of the oncoming vehicle! Is it that intrusive or is there over exaggeration in those reports?It's quite easy once you get familiar with the steps: Press one of the buttons to the right of the dashboard to bring the function onto the dashoard display; scroll to disable and then select.
How easy is it to turn the lane keeping system off - some reports I have read suggest it is “dangerous” on country roads where you have to keep close to the edges when passing oncoming traffic because the steering “jerks” you into the path of the oncoming vehicle! Is it that intrusive or is there over exaggeration in those reports?
Having a hidden hand turning the steering wheel is very disconcerting...
I'm going to need to produce a pre-flight checklist.
I know theres some sequence with the pseudo handbrake so you can pull up at traffic lights, etc and not blind the vehicle occupants behind with permanent brake lights whilst you're stopped.
Does brake hold come on automatically every time you start the car or do you have to activate it manually? I would have thought that automatic brake hold is far more useful than lane keeping assistance!
So you have to deactivate lane keeping assistance and activate auto brake hold! That seems strange as why wouldn't you want auto brake hold and why would you want lane keeping assistance if you live in the country with narrow roads!!!
Does brake hold come on automatically every time you start the car or do you have to activate it manually? I would have thought that automatic brake hold is far more useful than lane keeping assistance!
You activate each journey if you require it.
I agree.I think you have to accept that modern technology is infinitely more reliable than “tried and tested” technology! I remember the old technology in the 60’s, 70’s and 80’s - unreliable and always needing fixing, service intervals at 3k miles - and the rust.
The century old tried and tested handbrake can be feathered or used at a pressure required. The electric handbrake must be on or off, no middle ground, so some form of hill start is required. In this case, as I understand, the handbrake releases when you accelerate from a stop.
The other thing for me is that I have full confidence in a cable handbrake because with the electric one you are relying on technology and we all know that technology is not always 100%.
When Ruislip Honda didn't anchor my floormats on my 2009 Civic the drivers mat ran up the pedals and I had to quickly use the handbrake to stop. Fortunately this was on their forecourt. Flicking a switch may have had me through the wibsccreen.
I’m not sure I understand the point of Brake Hold, I’ve never driven a car with it so I’m not really sure what benefit it brings. My habit - acquired through many years of driving - is to apply the handbrake (aka parking brake) whenever I’ve stopped the car and don’t want it to move. Then just release it to drive away; even easier with an electric parking brake, you don’t even have to remember to release it. So what does Brake Hold do for you? Does it just relieve you of the “chore” of having to apply the Parking Brake? If it’s like Hill Start Assist (which I hate because it holds the brake on when you don’t want it to) on the Mk3, then getting into the habit of turning it off sounds like a good idea.I thought this about brake hold, that I’m so used to using handbrake there is no need. But now, I find myself turning it on every journey. It’s so convenient. Brake to a stop in traffic or at lights, then just press accelerator showing to go. Minimum fuss. It kinda fits in with having auto instead of manual. Less for the driver to do.
Regarding lane assist, is it possible to disable it permanently? Or must it be switched Off for every journey?There are actually two separate but related systems: (i) The Lane Keeping Assist System (LKAS) and (ii) The Road Departure Mitigation System (RDMS). LKAS is intended to stop people drifting out of traffic lanes and RDMS tries to be even cleverer and detect (a) going off the edge of a road, (b) crossing road markings and (c) driving into an oncoming vehicle. In principle they are a good idea and, no doubt, get extra points in safety assessments (which is why they are enabled by default). The systems are also sensitive to how actively a driver is trying to adjust the steering - drive with a light touch and they are more likely to get excited. They may not turn the steering wheel much, but any movement of the steering wheel is disconcerting (and intended to wake a dozing driver) while there's also the associated squawk from the vehicle.
If it is the latter, then I see that as a PITA. Maybe it’s possible to pull a fuse, so that it is permanently Off?
As others have said it seems to me, that this function can be dangerous in some circumstances.
There are actually two separate but related systems: (i) The Lane Keeping Assist System (LKAS) and (ii) The Road Departure Mitigation System (RDMS). LKAS is intended to stop people drifting out of traffic lanes and RDMS tries to be even cleverer and detect (a) going off the edge of a road, (b) crossing road markings and (c) driving into an oncoming vehicle. In principle they are a good idea and, no doubt, get extra points in safety assessments (which is why they are enabled by default). The systems are also sensitive to how actively a driver is trying to adjust the steering - drive with a light touch and they are more likely to get excited. They may not turn the steering wheel much, but any movement of the steering wheel is disconcerting (and intended to wake a dozing driver) while there's also the associated squawk from the vehicle.
I agree.Electronic handbrakes (EPB) are pointless. The lever has worked for ever, and is 100% reliable. Adding motors and a switch literaly solved a problem that didnt exist!
The century old tried and tested handbrake can be feathered or used at a pressure required. The electric handbrake must be on or off, no middle ground, so some form of hill start is required. In this case, as I understand, the handbrake releases when you accelerate from a stop.
The other thing for me is that I have full confidence in a cable handbrake because with the electric one you are relying on technology and we all know that technology is not always 100%.
When Ruislip Honda didn't anchor my floormats on my 2009 Civic the drivers mat ran up the pedals and I had to quickly use the handbrake to stop. Fortunately this was on their forecourt. Flicking a switch may have had me through the wibsccreen.
RDMS is a pain on small roads. LKAS is great because it’s elective, but RDMS needs to be disabled every trip...
Re the handbrake - coming from EVs, I was taken by surprise when selecting P didn’t auto engage the parking brake!
Re the handbrake - coming from EVs, I was taken by surprise when selecting P didn’t auto engage the parking brake!
....Makes me wonder now if Honda have over designed their system. ....I agree. Having worked in auto design, albeit many years ago now, I know how engineers can get a bit carried away with stuff. As the old saying goes, just because you can doesn't mean you should. I suspect it's an element of generation trend, the engineers now doing this stuff are from the tech era, they grew up with playstations and PCs and mobiles, so don't really understand the concept of KISS (keep it simple stupid). If there's something I will want to switch on/off regularly, there's nothing better than a good old fashioned switch on the dash, I don't want to be scrolling through menus and find i can't remember whether it's in settings or display or options or ...........
RDMS is a pain on small roads. LKAS is great because it’s elective, but RDMS needs to be disabled every trip...
Re the handbrake - coming from EVs, I was taken by surprise when selecting P didn’t auto engage the parking brake!
According to pages 470 and 482 of the handbook, LKAS has to be switched on each journey if you want it, using a push button. RDMS is on by default, but can be turned off each journey using another button. NB - I only have the handbook (digital), not the car!RDMS is a pain on small roads. LKAS is great because it’s elective, but RDMS needs to be disabled every trip...
Re the handbrake - coming from EVs, I was taken by surprise when selecting P didn’t auto engage the parking brake!
Do you mean that LKAS can be disabled permanently but RDMS needs disabling every time you start the car? I thought that they both needed disarming every time the car was started. Welcome clarification and how long it takes to do the disabling.
In the near future all cars will have these gizmos so it's now a case of getting used to them and remember to turn on or off what you do or don't want ..... every time you fire up.
AEB ?Automatic Emergency Brake.
I have a similar system in my car. She sits in the front seat and warns me if I get too close to the car in front, if I wander too close to the edge of my lane or if a vehicle is joining from the side. Unfortunately, this system works by default, and I do not have the b@ll$ to switch it off.;D ;D
I have a similar system in my car. She sits in the front seat and warns me if I get too close to the car in front, if I wander too close to the edge of my lane or if a vehicle is joining from the side. Unfortunately, this system works by default, and I do not have the b@ll$ to switch it off.I also have this system, but she never learned to drive so I get many false alarms and blame is always attributed to me!
I have a similar system in my car. She sits in the front seat and warns me if I get too close to the car in front, if I wander too close to the edge of my lane or if a vehicle is joining from the side. Unfortunately, this system works by default, and I do not have the b@ll$ to switch it off.
My Civic has a permanent display on the dash that says "Passenger Airbag" - how does it know ?At least it's not 'Passenger windbag!'
How easy is it to adapt to using the eCVT transmission for someone who has only ever used manual transmission. I have a MK3 at the moment which is manual and my two previous Jazz were also manual.I never found it a problem. My first real taste of an auto was in California in 1986. I had a hire car for a fortnight. The issue was quite the reverse. On my final day there, I drove a manual Corvette and tried to stop without using the clutch. I have since had 25 years driving automatics until reverting to my manual Jazz. A retrograde step, I might add.
How easy is it to adapt to using the eCVT transmission for someone who has only ever used manual transmission. I have a MK3 at the moment which is manual and my two previous Jazz were also manual.
Did it take some time to get used to it, and is it an improvement over the manual transmission.
Thanks.
I can’t drive a manual for toffee anymore...
The one gearbox I will not be getting is DSG. The failure and replacement cost is high. The other thing with DSG is slow speed manoeuvring like parallel parking or reversing into a garage. It's not a smooth manoeuvre but a series of kangaroo hops.Sorry but I'm afraid I have to disagree with everything you say about DSG. I have had 8 Skodas, Fabia, 3 Yetis, Kodiaq and 3 Karoqs. ALL DSG. Absolutely faultless, not jerky, you can drive it slowly. Superbly easy to park.
DSG is make or break so you can't drive slowly, pseudo clutch slip. I drove one and it was horrendous. When they were a wet clutch design they were manageable but the later dry clutch models ...... no
I was glad to see Ford have dropped their DSG ala PowerShift as it was proving unreliable and a couple of mass class action lawsuits are pending.
Not true with a Skoda Octavia Diesel DSG, I had from 2009 for 2 years.You were obviously VERY unlucky. Out of interest, how long ago was this (year of reg).
It would hesitate at junctions, sometimes for a few seconds.
This resulted in 2 people rear ending my car.
I will never but a VAG group car again.
Others faults with this car, the radio/cd failed during warranty, I had to wait over a year for a replacement.
Bulbs kept blowing.
The black film on the window switches rubbed off when it was about 18 months old, Skoda didn’t fix.
Plus other faults.
Got rid after very soon. It had only done about 20k miles, when I got rid.
I'm already seeing posts on the Civic forum where items have been ordered from the EU and the courier company needs to charge extra for whatever additional duties that now seem to have crept in.
This was a member who has used the same German online site to buy Civic parts for ages.
No problem, extra third party charges, until his last order after the Brexit split, when he was asked to pay extra for the delivery.
His final was that he won't be using them again. I think that could be the future for a lot of UK buyers.
Tyres.
As you say. not a lot of choice, WHY do the Japanese do it? The Mazda Demio was even worse for tyre availability. https://www.tyrecity.co.uk/tyres/search/results/185/60/16
I wouldn't choose either of those to be honest!
The one gearbox I will not be getting is DSG. The failure and replacement cost is high. The other thing with DSG is slow speed manoeuvring like parallel parking or reversing into a garage. It's not a smooth manoeuvre but a series of kangaroo hops.The VW DSG gearbox the subject to a USA "lemon law" class action over serious rate of expensive failures, VW had to reimburse owners for repair costs and provide an extended no quibble warranty, of course our UK motoring journals never raise such topics for fear of upsetting the car makers. Ford Powershift the same, withdrawn and owners offered a buyback with compensation, again a class action revealed Ford engineers documenting the Powershift as unreliable and not fit for sale, again we never read about such news here, I consider UK car magazines to be simply simply PR releases for Eu car makers
DSG is make or break so you can't drive slowly, pseudo clutch slip. I drove one and it was horrendous. When they were a wet clutch design they were manageable but the later dry clutch models ...... no
I was glad to see Ford have dropped their DSG ala PowerShift as it was proving unreliable and a couple of mass class action lawsuits are pending.
I am seriously dis-interested in a banging sound system and would happily swap it for a heated steering wheel.
I am only interested in the Crosstar due to the increased ride height and I prefer the looks. But, at 75, I am NOT Honda's target market.It is hsitory repeating itself. The original HR-v was targeted at the 20 somethings. 7 out of the first 10 my dealer sold went to old f@rts like me, due to the ease on ingress.
Now they have repeated their error in targeting the Crosstar at the younger market.
I spent my working life in marketing and sales with Shell so I do have a grasp of market requirements.
It is easier to sell a young man's car to an old man, than to sell an old man's car to a young man,Still don't think I'd buy a Corsa!
The old folk will happily get a Crosstar whether or not it's targeted at them because the key features tick the right boxes. However, Honda is sensibly trying to appeal to a wider range of potential customers so we end up with features which aren't on our list of priorities. I have to wonder whether Honda's marketing strategy has succeeded.I have to say my elderly mother (about the same age as the Queen) is not so keen on my Crosstar as it's too high for her to sit on the seat and swivel round as she did on entering my Mk 2! I bought it as I preferred the looks and the potentially softer ride, have no regrets and am happy with my choice. The sub-woofer wasn't a requirement but you can turn it down if you don't want it.
My initial choice was the Crosstar but having investigated further and seen both at the dealers I'm now leaning towards the Jazz.My Crosstar has the "Robust Pack" which has protective panels under the front and rear bumper area, I didn't pay extra for it as it was on the car already, I think it costs around £400 to have it as an extra.
I've been caught before by dirt and road debris hitting the car sides and rear lower bumper area and mud flaps certainly work. Then looking at the height, and roof rails that I don't need, they would make cleaning slightly harder so I looked more closely at the Jazz.
From what I can tell, the only downsides are the lower quality audio via less speakers, and the slightly softer suspension ?
I need to see the inside materials and see which I prefer, leather or waterproof.
I'm aiming for a Sep reg so I've got a few months leeway.
The robust pack is just the silver panels added to the front and rear bumpers mainly for styling rather than actual protection.I've photographed the rear panel (attached), it's grey on my car, it's a bit more than a decoration but not sure I'd pay £495 for it!
The Crosstar already has the additional plastic panel protection on the wheel arches and lower door panels that the addition of mudflaps would protect, so thus not need for additional mudflaps.
The Crosstar already has the additional plastic panel protection on the wheel arches and lower door panels that the addition of mudflaps would protect, so thus not need for additional mudflaps.
Many others here also find the RDMS to be a nuisance, if not a hazard. The underlying problem is that the presence of this system helps get the Jazz top marks in the Euro safety testing (NCAP) and any feature used in the safety testing isn't allowed to be permanently disabled. It appears that Honda failed to do sufficient testing of this system in normal UK driving conditions to be able to figure out how to tell the difference between an inattentive driver about to go off the road and an attentive driver intentionally going close to the edge of the road to, for example, make space for an oncoming vehicle or avoid a pothole or just take a straighter route down an empty wiggly road.
You shouldn't be needing five button presses to deactivate RDMS. It's one press on the safety systems selector shortcut button in the little switch cluster near the driver's door followed by a push on the left selector wheel on the steering wheel.
I expect that the next version of the Jazz (or possibly any major refresh) will have a more intelligent version of RDMS. While Honda's response to complaints is "it's fine and working as designed" there appears to be a system for logging the features which are annoying customers. When the Mk 4 was launched Honda specifically noted that there there were real knobs and buttons to control heating and ventilation "in response to user feedback" (I had the HR-V with a touch panel for these controls and it was a safety hazard because it was necessary to look at it to use it).
.....When the Mk 4 was launched Honda specifically noted that there there were real knobs and buttons to control heating and ventilation "in response to user feedback" ......When I went to view/try the mk3 which I have now, I commented to the sales chap that I specifically wanted a car with "proper knobs" for heating/ventilation and also definitely NOT keyless entry/start stuff. He smiled (I think it was understanding, it could have been pity on an old fogey, or even wind I suppose). The mk3 ticked those specific boxes, happy days.
Only two presses. If you give it about 3 secondsWhich 3 presses?
I have had my Jazz SR Mark 4 for 9 months and am mostly very happy with it. This is my 5th. Jazz, having owned all the previous Marks. With one major exception (see below) this is the best car that I have owned or driven.
The driving experience is exceptionally smooth and pleasant. The ride is comfortable, the power take-up is smooth and seamless, and the power train (either petrol or electric or both) always has enough in reserve and is easy to control. The car is very quiet, especially in EV mode.
I generally drive with the gear selector set to B, as this provides significant engine braking when my foot is off the "go" pedal, such that it is less often necessary to use the "stop" pedal and consequently I can drive for the most part in one-pedal mode. This also helps to reduce wear on the braking system.
Average fuel economy so far is 57.5 mpg (calculated from actual purchases of petrol). Fuel economy seems to be better in warm dry weather and at speeds below 60 mph.
Now for the negative comments. I have learnt to disable the LKAS, but the RDMS cannot be permanently deactivated, only at the start of each journey by making 5 or more button presses (the number seeming to be variable). The RDMS is a positive threat to life and limb - it is a danger that should be avoided at all costs. When one is driving on narrow roads (which includes many of those in the UK), the RDMS will come into action unpredictably and will pull the car into the path of oncoming traffic. The only way of saving oneself from injury or worse is to grab the steering wheel immediately and firmly, so as to counteract the malign efforts of the RDMS. When one is driving on single-track roads such as found in remote areas, the RDMS often pulls the car to the offside.
I have had the RDMS checked by my local Honda dealer, who found nothing wrong. I have written several letters to Honda UK, the president of which eventually replied to me to say that they couldn't (or wouldn't) do anything, even though all that I asked for was an option on the central screen to turn the RDMS off permanently - this would be a simple software mod which could be provided at minimal cost to customers who don't want the RDMS and feel threatened by it.
I have discussed the RDMS with the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency, who advised me to fit a dashcam and collect video evidence about the effects of the RDMS. I now have a dashcam but am very reluctant to allow one of these RDMS events to occur and to put myself and my passengers and other road users in danger.
So my overall verdict is that the Jazz Mark 4 scores 90% but this is not a pass mark. I will never again buy any car with RDMS or similar fitted to it unless it can be deactivated permanently. I live in hope that Honda will release a software mod to bring the score up to 100%.
I’m not sure if the Jazz uses blended braking when the pedal is pressed. I believe it is brake by wire, but I think it is purely friction braking.If you look at the power mode display you'll notice that for gentle braking the regen is contributing.
I always remember my IAM tutor telling me - always use the brakes to slow down, do not change down gears, brakes are cheaper than engine and clutch.That was before the age of regenerative braking.
When decelerating without the accelerator being depressed or the brake pedal being applied, or
while driving downhill, the electric motor acts as a generator that recovers a portion of the
electrical energy that was used to accelerate the vehicle. This regenerative braking slows the
vehicle in a manner similar to engine braking in a petrol-powered vehicle.
I'm showing my age :)I always remember my IAM tutor telling me - always use the brakes to slow down, do not change down gears, brakes are cheaper than engine and clutch.That was before the age of regenerative braking.
I'm showing my age :)I always remember my IAM tutor telling me - always use the brakes to slow down, do not change down gears, brakes are cheaper than engine and clutch.That was before the age of regenerative braking.
I always remember my IAM tutor telling me - always use the brakes to slow down, do not change down gears, brakes are cheaper than engine and clutch.
Do it on the IAM test and it's a fail.
My guess is that when you hit the brake pedal the brakes do get used but also the regen is applied too.Quote from: The manualWhen decelerating without the accelerator being depressed or the brake pedal being applied, or
while driving downhill, the electric motor acts as a generator that recovers a portion of the
electrical energy that was used to accelerate the vehicle. This regenerative braking slows the
vehicle in a manner similar to engine braking in a petrol-powered vehicle.
The handbook for the mk 4 states that B should typically be used down steep hills to increase engine braking.I tend to drive in D unless going downhill, I tried using B more but didn't seem to make any difference to economy. There seem to be different views as to whether braking (using the brake pedal) regens the battery, I've seen nothing in the handbook to say it does, I always assumed it only happens when foot is off the accelerator and brake pedal not pressed.
This is in line with what Toyota also recommend for their own hybrid drivetrain.
I understand various Honda dealers have been recommending customers to drive for extended periods in B in varied driving. but not sure about this recommendation - as it doesn't seem to be what is recommended by Honda in the jazz manual.
Dont believe you get increased economy using B in general driving, because youre losing more momentum when you lift off. In D, youre losing less momentum when you lift off. then if you need the brakes, the braking regens the power. Also ive driven Toyota hybrids in the Alps, and the traction battery frequently fills up on long downhills, so that any extra regen cannot be utilised - so you definitely don't benefit more using B than standard D and braking - except to provide less wear on brake components on the long descents - which is what the jazz manual says
I tend to drive in D unless going downhill, I tried using B more but didn't seem to make any difference to economy. There seem to be different views as to whether braking (using the brake pedal) regens the battery, I've seen nothing in the handbook to say it does, I always assumed it only happens when foot is off the accelerator and brake pedal not pressed.I quoted from Page 16 of the PDF. That section (Quick Reference Guide) is not in the paper manual.
My only reservation would be switching from B to D whilst in motion.
Could you easily push too hard and go from to B to N by accident or is there a protection button to stop this ?
The big no-no on auto boxes is selecting 'P' before the car has stopped. The 'P' position puts a mechanical lock on the gearbox, and selecting P while car still moving can either shear off the locking pin or other nasty stuff.
Around town I find B is an easier driving experience compared with D.It’s tied to brake force. Regs state that over a certain amount of G, the brake lights must activate.
One thing I noticed today on the motorway was that Adaptive Cruise Control uses the brake lights if it has to slow down suddenly due to a car in front braking.
If you're passing a dealer ......It'll almost certainly be two words, probably involving sex and travel ...................... :o
Be interesting to hear how they phrase 'go away'
"Go forth and multiply."If you're passing a dealer ......It'll almost certainly be two words, probably involving sex and travel ...................... :o
Be interesting to hear how they phrase 'go away'
I recently wrote to Honda UK to voice my concerns about the implementation of RDMS and pointing out that in certain circumstances, on narrow UK roads I regarded the system as downright dangerous.
This is their reply:-
Thank you for contacting us and we hope your day is going fine.
We are sorry to hear about the issues you are having with the Road Departure Mitigation System (RDMS). The system itself is designed to alert and help you when detecting a possibility of your vehicle crossing over detected lane markings or approaching the outer edge of the pavement (into grass or gravel border) or an oncoming vehicle.
There are indeed some limitations of the system as mentioned in the Owner’s Manual - p.483-p.486.
There is also a way to disable the system mentioned in the Owner’s Manual on p.482, if you are not satisfied with the way the Road Departure Mitigation System performs.
The RDMS is turned on every time you turn the power system on, even if you turned it off the last time you drove the vehicle, as this is a safety related feature of the Honda Jazz.
If you wish to permanently disable the system, it would be best to speak to an authorized Honda dealer, as they are technically trained staff and would be able to advise you if this is possible.
We value all customer feedback we receive about our products. This feedback is crucial to allow us as a business to strive forward and provide our customers with the highest quality products.
We will ensure to pass your feedback on to the relevant teams, where they will use the feedback for future vehicles we manufacture, taking into consideration the comments you have made on the Road Departure Mitigation System.
We hope that this reassures you that we take any feedback our customers provide seriously.
Thank you for contacting us. If you need any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us again.
Kind Regards,
Their rely doesn't tell me much that I don't already know, but do they appear to accept that there are situations where RDMS can have an adverse effect and suggest that I contact my dealer for help, which I don't think will be forthcoming!
All I need is the facility to switch off RDMS permanently, which would be the same as LKAS, can it be so difficult?
However, I have on two occasions had an upsetting experience when the speed limiter has failed to limit the speed. While driving at 70 mph on a motorway with the limiter set to 70, the car suddenly and without any warning accelerated to 77 before I realised what was happening and brought things under control. This was accompanied by repeated beeping, warning me that I was exceeding my set limit, even though the limiter was not doing what it should. Neither Honda UK nor the dealer have been of any help in explaining this. Has anyone else come across this?
So maybe the Honda system will be, despite it flaws, something I can become used to, I don't know.Don't know if anybody else has noticed this but the RDMS appears to reduce its activation over time. We've had an EX for 11 months and initially it was really annoying. We live in a narrow lane with no pavements and it used to activate every time we drove up the road but it has stopped. Also when the wife went shopping she always complained about it. I've just asked her and she says it hardly ever happens now.
Confirmation bias I’m afraid. Just an unconscious change in driving style.I just signal a lot more now (not a bad thing) as it stops it intervening, also driving slowly in situations where it might happen (eg country lanes). However it came on recently after I'd been stopped at temporary lights for road works, when the lights changed to green I had to cross the white line and it didn't like it.
I just signal a lot more now (not a bad thing) as it stops it intervening, also driving slowly in situations where it might happen (eg country lanes). However it came on recently after I'd been stopped at temporary lights for road works, when the lights changed to green I had to cross the white line and it didn't like it.
LKAS is generally switched off, I only use it on motorways as it struggles on sharp corners - it's not really designed for non-motorway use. There are clear indications on the dash showing when RDMS has intervened and also for LKAS so you always know why the steering's been affected. Indicators do stop RDMS, if the car thinks you're in control and doing something intentionally it doesn't do anything so once you've got used to it RDMS is not such a problem.I just signal a lot more now (not a bad thing) as it stops it intervening, also driving slowly in situations where it might happen (eg country lanes). However it came on recently after I'd been stopped at temporary lights for road works, when the lights changed to green I had to cross the white line and it didn't like it.
That’s interesting. I can understand how a LKAS alert would be cancelled by indicating, also that it doesn’t happen st low speed (both of those are similar to the Mk3), but I thought the system causing the angst was the RDMS? Does the driver get any indication which system is causing the spurious alarms, or does he just get a general “stay in lane” indication? Honda have used the same warning indications for different systems before: the Mk3 has two different collision mitigation systems (the city brake active system and the forward collision warning), both of which give exactly the same audible tone and dashboard alert, so it’s not clear which one has taken offence.
What strikes me about our premium sunlight white pearl Jazz (without mud flaps) is that the tailgate gets disproportionately dirty.
I don't think mud flaps will fix that...(https://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/midi/konfus/c086.gif)
One BIG mistake (I think) by Honda, is no washer jet on the reversing camera.There is actually a rear camera washer option available from Honda in Japan.
How many times have you had to get out after getting in, getting the engine started and putting your seatbelt on, just to clean the lens, so you can actually see clearly with it. I know, 'cos I was always having to do it on my Outlander.
One BIG mistake (I think) by Honda, is no washer jet on the reversing camera.
How many times have you had to get out after getting in, getting the engine started and putting your seatbelt on, just to clean the lens, so you can actually see clearly with it. I know, 'cos I was always having to do it on my Outlander.
Rear camera air blower is nothig.....One BIG mistake (I think) by Honda, is no washer jet on the reversing camera.There is actually a rear camera washer option available from Honda in Japan.
How many times have you had to get out after getting in, getting the engine started and putting your seatbelt on, just to clean the lens, so you can actually see clearly with it. I know, 'cos I was always having to do it on my Outlander.
It uses air rather than water, when you put the car in reverse it uses a couple of high power air blows over the lens to remove water droplets.
Costs around £100-£150, but I asked Honda UK about it and they didn’t have any plans to offer it here.
I really do not get complaints about engine noise in the MK4 Jazz. Putting your foot hard down on the accelerator pedal is not helpful; the car is pretty nippy without revving the engine, more so out of Econ mode. These days I don't tend to take any car into the red rev range; I'm retired and more interested in safety and fuel economy than driving hard.From what I’ve read the difference in acceleration between flooring the pedal - and creating max engine noise - and being more gentle with the pedal - and minimising noise - actually makes little difference to the rate of acceleration. Is that your experience in real life?
From what I’ve read the difference in acceleration between flooring the pedal - and creating max engine noise - and being more gentle with the pedal - and minimising noise - actually makes little difference to the rate of acceleration. Is that your experience in real life?I think it very much depends on the state of the battery at the time.
From what I’ve read the difference in acceleration between flooring the pedal - and creating max engine noise - and being more gentle with the pedal - and minimising noise - actually makes little difference to the rate of acceleration. Is that your experience in real life?Yes. It's rather enjoyable to feel the car surge forward with a moderate pressure on the pedal. Eco mode reduces the fun aspect.
Yep.That’s what I suspected!
I can accelerate up a motorway sliproad and get to blending in speed with very little noise.
These journos seem to have a point to make to satisfy their advertisers.
From what I’ve read the difference in acceleration between flooring the pedal - and creating max engine noise - and being more gentle with the pedal - and minimising noise - actually makes little difference to the rate of acceleration. Is that your experience in real life?Yes. It's rather enjoyable to feel the car surge forward with a moderate pressure on the pedal. Eco mode reduces the fun aspect.
I think it helps to consider that the engine is only running to charge the drive battery. That's not completely true by the way.
.. It does seem just like real gear changes, if you didn't know then someone driving it would assume it had a normal gearbox.I think that's it's there for people who might be concerned about Continuously Variable Transmission's, (CVT). In the past CVT's could be a bit naff.
...Derbyshire can be 'hilly' and I get the 'gear changes' a fair amount of the time.I love the Derbyshire Peaks. In non pandemic times I would attend BSA Owners Club camping weekends with my 1955 Golden Flash. Riding a motorcycle around the Peak District is wonderful.
...Derbyshire can be 'hilly' and I get the 'gear changes' a fair amount of the time.I love the Derbyshire Peaks. In non pandemic times I would attend BSA Owners Club camping weekends with my 1955 Golden Flash. Riding a motorcycle around the Peak District is wonderful.
... Problem is that during decent motorbiking weather the Plods are very active in peak District....I'm OK with that. The way idiots fly around on their crotch rockets is horrific.
There is quite a lot we can't get here.
What is annoying is Honda blocking imports via dealers, like the black front cup holders. Seems illogical to me.
This looks far better :
Left :
(https://i.imgur.com/iex867Q.jpg)
Yes, this is the best Jazz I've had, by far and would certainly buy another one, although at 85, there is not a lot of time left.
My only gripe is the inability to permanently switch off the RDMS, which I find a real PITA, otherwise the car is nigh on perfect for my needs.
I've had two cars with self parking. I tried it a couple of times in both of them to see how it worked but it always finished too far from the pavement for my liking so I never used it.I too have had self (Parellel) parking on two cars. The first, a Skoda Yeti, was absolutely brilliant. Parked just an inch or so from the kerb without ever hitting it. Only issue I had was demonstrating the feature to a friend when it parked in such a tight space that I could not get it out with out a great (and I mean great) deal of difficultly. The second (BMW X1) I only used once so difficult to compare but maybe because it was brand new and expensive I was rather nervous of parking in confined spaces and never used it again.
My only gripe is the inability to permanently switch off the RDMS, which I find a real PITA, otherwise the car is nigh on perfect for my needs.
I do worry that it's a bit of a distraction because I switch it off "on the move" as I don't want to spend 5 minutes with the engine idling scrolling through endless screens, losing my preferred home screen etc etc.