Non Starter

[Sharon]

ok, think I'm gonna get the alternator changed. Where's best place to get this done? I'm not going back to autoelec guy, his belligerant attitude has made me feel I'm 'mithering him'.   

[culzean]

Did you try putting headlights and other loads ( heated rear window ) on for a short time while driving to see if alternator can be persuaded to to raise its output ? That is what the ELD ( electronic load detection ) is there for, to pass a message to alternator to pull its finger out when the load increases - if you increase the load and lights on Halfords indicator stay at two lights then it may be ELD or alternator at fault,  but if you increase the load and all four lights come on then it proves alternator is OK when it is told to charge so ELD may be at fault ( not kicking in at a low enough current ) = but at least you have proved something.

[Jocko]

In my experience an alternator works or it doesn't. Problem is usually brushes (very occasionally a diode). An alternator with an intermittent fault is not something I have experienced.

[culzean]

In my experience an alternator works or it doesn't. Problem is usually brushes (very occasionally a diode). An alternator with an intermittent fault is not something I have experienced.

+1 

I have seen them in the past with one diode gone in the alternator which means output struggles to get much above 13.5 volts,  which is not enough to keep a battery charged in winter on short journeys - but that was not intermittent. Worryingly most garages had said the voltage was OK and changed the battery,  only for the new battery to gradually run down over a few weeks - people knew I had a decent voltmeter and a bit of knowledge and asked for help and that is what I found,  that was before the days of ELD etc.  The brushes run on sliprings and carry only the few amps excitation current for the rotor ( not the main  75 amps or so output which comes from stator ) so the brushes normally last for ever unless one sticks in holder and fails to contact slipring ( I know you already know this Jocko - just for benefit of others ).

[Jocko]

I had the brushes wear out on my old SAAB 99, but only after 150,000 miles. Dealer had to order new ones, so for about 10 days I had to charge battery overnight, to get me through the day!

[sparky Paul]

I have had an intermittent fault on an alternator, but it's not common. Turned out to be a bad connection at the end of one of the rotor windings, stopped the alternator working as the engine bay warmed up, and soldering over the bad compression joint with the big iron fixed it. Most of these intermittant problems turn out to be a bad connection somewhere. It could be earth straps, connections to the alternator, or even a dry joint within the alternator or ELD unit.

Favourite failure is one of the rectifier diodes, as culzean says, and almost always results in a permanently dead alternator.

Other half had a Renault 5 where the brushes wore through the slip rings!

[Sharon]

Did you try putting headlights and other loads ( heated rear window ) on for a short time while driving to see if alternator can be persuaded to to raise its output ? That is what the ELD ( electronic load detection ) is there for, to pass a message to alternator to pull its finger out when the load increases - if you increase the load and lights on Halfords indicator stay at two lights then it may be ELD or alternator at fault,  but if you increase the load and all four lights come on then it proves alternator is OK when it is told to charge so ELD may be at fault ( not kicking in at a low enough current ) = but at least you have proved something.

Hi Culzean, ok, I did that test today, here is what happened

I set off without any of the extra load being on. The lights on the Halfords device, stayed, MAINLY on the first two only, but occasionally went to all lights on for a few seconds.   After about 20 mins of driving, I did the load test; turned all the heating on, AC, headlights, etc. At that point, ALL of the lights on the device did come on, and stay on. After around half an hour of that, I turned everything off, and we were back to the start -  mostly two lights on, but the occasional jump to all lights on. What do you make of that? ELD fault? What sort of cost will that be do you reckon?

[Jocko]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GENUINE-HONDA-ELD-ELECTRONIC-LOAD-DETECTOR-CIVIC-CRV-JAZZ-38255-S5A-003-/202068487124

[Sharon]

Cheers, but I'm no mechanic!   These things easy to fit?

[culzean]

Cheers, but I'm no mechanic!   These things easy to fit?

It lives in the engine fusebox by the battery - more details and video in link below,  if you do get one I am sure the auto electrician will fit it in no time,  seems to clip over a short bussbar ....with one small plug to disconnect.

The ELD module fits over the bussbar and a little 'hall effect' electronic sensor detects current flow through bussbar,  be aware that unbolting bussbar will remove power from vehicle electric and you will need to reset clock etc. ( same as removing battery from car ).  There is a video in the thread linked to below showing the replacement of the ELD on a Honda Civic - won't be that different for Jazz.

https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=10222.msg60870#msg60870

it may be worth just checking the plug connections on the ELD are not corroded or dirty,  may be able to clean them by unplugging and plugging back in again, any dirt on the connection may degrade the signal to alternator so that it needs more current to get a sufficient signal to wake up the alternator.

Maybe it will be safer to drive around with headlights on and possibly heated rear window as well for a while,  at least it will keep battery charged.

[sparky Paul]

it may be worth just checking the plug connections on the ELD are not corroded or dirty,  may be able to clean them by unplugging and plugging back in again, any dirt on the connection may degrade the signal to alternator so that it needs more current to get a sufficient signal to wake up the alternator.

That would be my first port of call too, check all the connectors, particularly the smaller ones around the ELD (engine fusebox) and the alternator.

[Sharon]

Hi all. Booked in for next week at a garage.

I have managed to keep the battery on a lowish charge, by putting on my headlights when I am driving. When I do this, all lights are on on the halfords gadget, showing that the battery is charging.

I tried to locate the 'ELD' but could not see it. It's not mentioned in the Haynes manual?

Anyway, when it goes into the garage, to try and give them a start on the issue, should I say its more than likely the ELD, based on my tests etc? I just dont want them throwing in a new alternator for luck. 

[Jocko]

I would tell them the ELD is suspect, and why you suspect it.

[culzean]

Well if the alternator is capable of lighting up all four LED lights on the halfords gadget it is capable of charging the battery when it is instructed to do so by the ELD.  The ELD lives in the underbonnet fuse box, there are photos of it in previous thread I linked to earlier in thread....