Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums
Honda Jazz Forums => Honda Jazz Mk3 2015 - 2020 => Topic started by: andruec on September 05, 2016, 09:21:15 AM
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At one roundabout this morning I was creeping to a stop with my foot on the brake. I heard it creak a bit and the driver's dash display briefly showed what seemed to be an image of two pedals. It was only there for a couple of seconds so I didn't really get a chance to read it.
Then when parking my car I waited for the wipers to reach the bottom and switched off. Instead of the engine going off I got a beep and the display showed the image for 'hold the brake down to start'. Pressed the button again and the engine went off.
And it's now official: Every other time I use the car infotainment does a 'long boot'. Great :(
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Then when parking my car I waited for the wipers to reach the bottom and switched off. Instead of the engine going off I got a beep and the display showed the image for 'hold the brake down to start'. Pressed the button again and the engine went off.
It sounds like your engine had auto stopped, the first button press tried to restart it, the second one stopped it properly.
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It sounds like your engine had auto stopped, the first button press tried to restart it, the second one stopped it properly.
Possibly although as I'd reversed in I didn't think it would have. I'm also fairly aware of auto stop when parking up because I know that if I do switch off when auto-start is 'doing its thing' it causes problems when starting again from cold.
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It sounds like your engine had auto stopped, the first button press tried to restart it, the second one stopped it properly.
Possibly although as I'd reversed in I didn't think it would have.
I don't think reversing to a stop would make any difference, the wheel sensors only detect rotation, not direction. Maybe the car knows which gear is in use though.
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At one roundabout this morning I was creeping to a stop with my foot on the brake. I heard it creak a bit and the driver's dash display briefly showed what seemed to be an image of two pedals. It was only there for a couple of seconds so I didn't really get a chance to read it.
The pedal image was telling you the pedal was not being pushed hard enough for the auto-stop to function.
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The pedal image was telling you the pedal was not being pushed hard enough for the auto-stop to function.
Ah! Yes that makes sense.
Still not sure about the other funny though. I always reverse into my space at work and I've formed the impression that autostop doesn't work in reverse, or at least that using reverse disables it for a while. It would make sense. Using reverse usually implies maneuvering the vehicle so you wouldn't want the autostop to activate in those cases. Also thinking about it if autostop was active then I must have had my foot pressing the brake firmly as you've pointed out (I have the CVT version and one of my pet peeves is that releasing the brake pedal always restarts the engine - even if you're in neutral). So the message about having to hold down the brake to start the car just doesn't make sense.
Oh well. No harm done that I can tell so far. Just a pointless and confusing message :)
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It sounds like your engine had auto stopped, the first button press tried to restart it, the second one stopped it properly.
Possibly although as I'd reversed in I didn't think it would have.
I don't think reversing to a stop would make any difference, the wheel sensors only detect rotation, not direction. Maybe the car knows which gear is in use though.
I always reverse into my drive (at least 200 times to date) and it has never auto stopped
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Hi Andruec,
The picture of the 'two pedals' is not an indication that something is wrong. The same thing has happened to me and after two or three times I realised that my pedal pressure was the cause. I now apply a 'better pressure' to the pedal and it hasn't happened since so I reckon Downsizer is right.
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Once I had appreciated this feature there are times (eg at front of queue to join a busy roundabout) when I consciously don't push too hard on the brake pedal in order to prevent the auto idle stop from happening and hence avoid the slight lag when the engine restarts.
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I have a button by the gearstick for that.
I have checked when reversing to a stop a couple of times and my car did not auto stop.
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I must confess to scratching my head a bit over this discussion, it doesn't chime with my experience of auto-stop. Mine's a manual box (I know it's different for a CVT), and the sequence for the engine to stop is:
- Car stationary
- Handbrake on
- Gear level in neutral
- Foot off clutch.
The engine then stops (unless of course one or more of the many inhibiting factors is active) which is exactly what I want and expect. There's no need to touch the brake pedal at all once you're stationary (never mind "not pushing it hard enough"), and it's irrelevant whether you've approached the stop from moving forward or reverse.
I don't tend to do all those things when manoeuvring until I've actually finished, so I'm not surprised when the engine doesn't stop mid-manoeuvre. So what's all this talk of "not pushing the brake pedal hard enough", is that a CVT-oddity ?
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I must confess to scratching my head a bit over this discussion, it doesn't chime with my experience of auto-stop. Mine's a manual box (I know it's different for a CVT), and the sequence for the engine to stop is:
Yup, it's different. And for a manual it's more sensible.
For the CVT the autostop sequence is:
* Press firmly on brake pedal. When car is stationary engine will switch off (subject to battery load and state of course).
* When you release the brake pedal, move the steering wheel or push the gear lever out of neutral the engine will restart.
In particular note that whilst you can move into neutral without the engine restarting it will restart when you release the brake pedal regardless of the gear lever position. So in order to keep the engine from stoppingrestarting you have no choice but to keep your brake pedal depressed :(
I don't understand why Honda have done this. The car will restart if you move the gear lever back into drive (and it will be ready to go before the transmission is) so why can't we be 'allowed' to release the brake pedal when the car is in neutral. It seems silly to me.
Edit:Fixed typo.
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Interesting, thanks for the clarification. With regard to this...
... So in order to keep the engine from stopping you have no choice but to keep your brake pedal depressed :( ... I don't understand why Honda have done this.
... from your description it sounds like it's the other way round, ie you have to keep your foot on the brake in order for the engine to stop, and releasing the brake re-starts it ?
FWIW I've never understood why car manufacturers have been allowed to flout Rule 114 of the Highway Code (this link https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/general-rules-techniques-and-advice-for-all-drivers-and-riders-103-to-158 (https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/general-rules-techniques-and-advice-for-all-drivers-and-riders-103-to-158) and scroll down to 114) when designing their auto-stop systems. It's not just Honda, I think most (all ?) autos are designed like this.
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+1
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In my manual car the start stop is controlled with the clutch pedal, clutch pedal down, select neutral, pedal up engine stops (if the wheels are stopped). Pedal down, engine starts, so quickly it is running before you can select first gear. Neither the footbrake or handbrake are involved.
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Interesting, thanks for the clarification. With regard to this...
... So in order to keep the engine from stopping you have no choice but to keep your brake pedal depressed :( ... I don't understand why Honda have done this.
... from your description it sounds like it's the other way round, ie you have to keep your foot on the brake in order for the engine to stop, and releasing the brake re-starts it ?
Oops, yes. A typo. I'll correct that.
FWIW I've never understood why car manufacturers have been allowed to flout Rule 114 of the Highway Code (this link https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/general-rules-techniques-and-advice-for-all-drivers-and-riders-103-to-158 (https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/general-rules-techniques-and-advice-for-all-drivers-and-riders-103-to-158) and scroll down to 114) when designing their auto-stop systems. It's not just Honda, I think most (all ?) autos are designed like this.
Irritating. I hate doing it. I've always been critical of those who don't use their handbrake when stationary. But now, sadly, I've had to join that distinguished club.
..well I do still use my HB but I also keep my brake pedal down. :-[
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It's not just Honda, I think most (all ?) autos are designed like this.
It does seem that way. I found a link to the Nissan system (http://www.nissan-global.com/EN/TECHNOLOGY/OVERVIEW/is.html) and it says the same - it also says it avoids idle stop when you're manoeuvring.
The Wikipedia article also (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Start-stop_system) implies it's common practice.
"Cars with automatic transmissions shut down upon braking to a full stop - the shut down is activated the footbrake pedal being in use when the car comes to a halt."
It seems slightly odd to me. I'd say it was saving money on the grounds that a lot of auto drivers do just sit on the foot brake so why bother with anything more but that doesn't explain why the gear lever does have a sensor/switch and that they've gone to the trouble of allowing us to shift into neutral without the engine restarting.
It seems like a deliberate design decision and I can't fathom out why. I did actually email Honda to ask but I got a pointless boilerplate reply explaining how idle stop works on the automatic version. Pretty much what I'd already said in the email and what I could read for myself from the handbook.
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Then when parking my car I waited for the wipers to reach the bottom and switched off. Instead of the engine going off I got a beep and the display showed the image for 'hold the brake down to start'. Pressed the button again and the engine went off.
I think I know the answer to this. Very occasionally I switch the car off while it's in Neutral (no idea why, just temporary brain fade). Moving the gear lever to Park causes the car to prompt you to press the brake pedal to restart the engine. Quite why I sometimes do that is a whole other mystery. I've been driving an automatic for many years now so you'd think that selecting Park before switching off was ingrained and inviolable.
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You are spot on andruec.
I do exactly the same thing at least once a fortnight so I guess you and I are suffering from same brain disorder :'(.