Fuel delivery problem

[Ed G]

Hi, how are you? Hope someone can help me with this problem.

I've  2007 HONDA JAZZ SE I-DS 1339cc manual. Problem started this morning. Car starts as usual, end of my road seems like running out of petrol, but there's heaps. Engine dies. Wait a moment starts try to move off dies. Repeat about half a dozen times, same. Pushed back to my house.

Same thing, wait a while engine starts easily, runs 10-20 seconds dies. Under the bonnet I could hear a high pitch wine, followed by a click as if a valve is opened/closed. Facing the car I think I can hear a slight continous clicking noise down the left hand side.

With not much technical know how of this car I'm suspecting the fuel pump is working, as I do get fuel up to the engine to start, but maybe something is shutting it down hence the engine keeps stopping? I have not got one of those code readers so I can only work on what I can see.

Has anyone else had this problem and fixed it please? I've had the car about 8 years and it has done 160K miles, but never had any problems with it.

all suggestions welcome, cheers!

Ed

[Jocko]

It could be a blocked fuel filter, which is in the tank under the driver's seat.

[Ed G]

Thanks, I'll give it a go. But woudl it start again if it's blocked?

Cheers

[Jocko]

Probably it is not completely blocked but severely restricted. When it cuts out the ignition is still on so the fuel pump is still running and it slowly pressurises the line. But as you restart the amount of fuel you are using is greater than the filter will pass so it peters out again.
Replacing the fuel filter, as far as I am aware, is a bit of a pig, so it never gets done.
A good garage should be able to check the fuel pressure.
http://www.hondafitjazz.com/manual/A00/HTML/07/SAA2E07A20326400000FEAT00.HTML
Replacing the filter is detailed here.
http://www.hondafitjazz.com/manual/A00/HTML/07/SAA2E07A20326427601KBAT00.HTML

[Ed G]

Thanks for the advice. I'm going to have a look at the filter tomorrow. Just suprised as car running perfect, until no lol!!

though suprised if filter blocked, as it starts again always after it has died, in about 10-20 seconds, but that's the obvious thing to try first.

I'm fearing some weird electrical fault that's stopping the pump.

Will put result up when I've checked the filter.

Thanks again!

[Marco1979]

The fuel pump will automatically shut off when the car experiences a severe ‘shock’. E.g. after a crash this prevents fuel leakages and fire. I once had that after going through a large pothole the off switch kicked in, so no fuel any more. You can manually reset this switch (I know I saw it in the manual somewhere for the Jazz but can’t remember. I had this in my dads Mondeo 2 decades ago).
So if the fuel filter seems clean you might check the switch.

[HertsHonda]

Presume you have removed / released Filler Cap to allow air into tank?
Obviously not a fix, but might help to diagnose.
Once had a Ford KA that became a non runner when I restarted engine in queue at filling station.
-  AA came and replaced pump fuse; could have DIY'd it if I'd thought!.

[Jocko]

The inertia fuel cutoff is behind a curved panel which it says is in the passenger footwell but the picture is of a LHD vehicle. I would presume, going by where the fuel system is in the Jazz, in RHD cars it is above and to the right of the accelerator but you may have to check both sides.
However, if the inertia switch trips you get no fuel at all and consequently, no restart until it is reset. It is just a button on the switch.

[Ed G]

Hi, an update.

I borrowed an OBD2 reader, and it showed no codes. so I am guessing that has ruled out the fuel pump relay?

Still same, I had done the open fuel cap and even left it off, but still the same. Turn ignition on can hear the pump fill up then stops. Turn engine over runs for 0 seconds dies, can repeat as often as I like.

Don't think it's the inertia switch, as car ran ok till I parked it up at night and trouble when I started car in the morning.

If can't think of any other things to check/try guess I'll have to take the fuel pump out. Bit concerned if I will be able to rig up some home made put removal tool to get it out the tank! (and put it back in securely to stop leaks)

[Jocko]

I take it the front AND REAR spark plugs are in good condition.
Leaks should not be a great issue as the assembly goes in through the top of the tank. Lift it out, remove the filter, lower it back in and start the car. See if it keeps running. If it does you need a new filter, if it doesn't, a new plan!

[fashionphotography]

remember the cold start will deliver extra fuel when cold so sounds like its just trying to run on that. could even be a blocked fuel pipe acting like a valve? but douptful. did you say it will tick-over ok but will not rev ?

[embee]

This is complete guesswork, but it sounds to me it might be to do with the signal to the fuel pump relay.

When you power up the ignition the fuel pump is switched on to "prime" the fuel pressure ready for a start. Once primed the pump stops. When you turn the key to crank the fuel pump relay should be powered up again and should "maintain" once the engine is seen by the ECU to be running.
It sounds a bit like it is priming and possibly powering up on cranking, but drops out when the engine runs and the key is released.There is probably enough residual fuel pressure to run the engine for a few seconds even if the pump stops depending on what sort of regulator or damper it has.

I'd try to watch the voltage reaching the fuel pump relay energising coil terminals with a meter. You should see when the fuel pump relay is being energised. If it powers up for priming and again during cranking but drops out when the engine fires up, then that's a start in finding what the issue might be. I don'y know what sort of strategy is used for switching the signal from crank to run or where the feed comes from at the ECU.

.... just a guess mind you, might be totally off track ...........

PS - just an afterthought that quite often things like relay coils have a 12V feed applied and they are switched down to earth by the ECU, so you need to connect a meter across the actual relay coil terminals to see when it goes from 12V (on) to 0V (off), don't measure between the positive terminal and car earth as this can be misleading (can always see 12V between feed and car earth regardless of whether the ECU is switched on or off).

[Ed G]

Thanks embee, and all others. I've had 3 mobile mechanics come out and nobody seems to know what the problem is. They all said no error codes found, had a look at the plugs. Only thing that now I know is wrong is the alternator has packed up, could be something to do one of the mechanics revving it to red line for about 10 minutes.

But regardless of the alternator, I have 12.6 volts at the battery. Same thing all the time, car starts after 1- seconds, yes about 10 seconds, it peters out and dies. The relays sounds the best cause, but one of the mechanics swapped over the relay and still no luck.

Running out of options and money. Honda garage wants to charge £150 to even look at it, for an hour, and they're saying probably 2 hours, that's £300. Plus, of course, I need to get the car to them, so realisticly that's not an option fr me.

Any other ideas please?

Thanks.

[olduser1]

Remote diagnostics are tricky, but any work or issues just before the starting problem arose, any changes made at all?

[fashionphotography]

Silly question i take it you have checked the Fuses? just thinking it maybe the fuse to the exciter for the alternator may also feed the pump ?