Hybrid..is it the future?

[Jazzik]

A PHEV is the best of both worlds in my opinion. It runs like a normal hybrid but if you plug it in and charge it up it can give you 35 - 40 miles of pure electric motoring. If you have a drive you can charge it off a normal 13A plug as you are not having to fully charge a big battery as in an EV.

It doesn't run like a self-charging hybrid, it uses the battery until it's out of power (usually after about 30 miles) then it runs on the ICE not very efficiently as it's got the extra weight of the larger batteries, it doesn't do any charging while driving so nothing like the Jazz. So you have to plug it in AND put petrol in to use it properly.

Wrong! For example, the Toyota PHEVs (in PHEV mode) also fill the battery through regenerative braking (just like a Jazz).
Similar to standard hybrids (HEVs), the PHEVs also have hybrid vehicle mode which blends power from the gasoline engine and hybrid battery.
So you can initially drive fully electric, say about 30 miles and then switch to hybrid mode. Then the PHEV works as a "normal" hybrid, but it weighs quite a bit more.

[monkeydave]

[/quote]

Knowing how legislation regarding vehicles, and how any governments plans constantly change I wouldn't be putting bets on this actually happening. Seven'ish years is a little way off, but I honestly don't believe they will ban petrol engine vehicles at that point.
[/quote]

you may be right (hopefully) but they will not be may full petrol cars to buy at that time, unless they start to remanufacture them again

[Nicksey]

A PHEV is the best of both worlds in my opinion. It runs like a normal hybrid but if you plug it in and charge it up it can give you 35 - 40 miles of pure electric motoring. If you have a drive you can charge it off a normal 13A plug as you are not having to fully charge a big battery as in an EV.

It doesn't run like a self-charging hybrid, it uses the battery until it's out of power (usually after about 30 miles) then it runs on the ICE not very efficiently as it's got the extra weight of the larger batteries, it doesn't do any charging while driving so nothing like the Jazz. So you have to plug it in AND put petrol in to use it properly.

Wrong! For example, the Toyota PHEVs (in PHEV mode) also fill the battery through regenerative braking (just like a Jazz).
Similar to standard hybrids (HEVs), the PHEVs also have hybrid vehicle mode which blends power from the gasoline engine and hybrid battery.
So you can initially drive fully electric, say about 30 miles and then switch to hybrid mode. Then the PHEV works as a "normal" hybrid, but it weighs quite a bit more.

I have a friend with a Mercedes SUV thingy, which is a PHEV. His power is very much like the Honda, which uses electric as an aid to starting, moving around at slow speeds and acceleration boost. However, once this charge has gone... then its purely petrol motion until he can get home and recharge. The system does not charge during driving. This is the same for Renault PHEVs too (the Clio hybrid works in the same way as the Jazz though, albeit with a slightly longer range and a manual gearbox)

[John Ratsey]

I would expect any Honda PHEV to build on the existing Honda HEV technology: Use the battery until the charge gets fairly low and then switch to full hybrid in order to achieve the maximum engine efficiency and capture any deceleration / braking energy.

[Karoq]

Since my driving is very short trips during the week with an 80 mile round trip every other weekend a PHEV would be ideal for me. I have registered my interest with Horizon for the HR-V (by another name) PHEV due early next year.
One thing that will stop me buying it is if they fir a huge 'portrait' screen like Tesla have, with only touch controls for everything. i hate them. All the reviewers praised Honda for sticking with real knobs for the heating control. If they go touch only in future it will be a BIG mistake IMO.
My Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV would charge the battery with the ICE whilst driving, but the consumption suffered greatly. In hybrid mode on a journey it would do 55mpg (whilst NOT charging!) Not bad for a 2 ton 'brick' and the same as the HR-V e:HEV. I charged it using a granny cable about twice a week, taking 5 hours, overnight from flat to full. But it's E mileage was pathetic . Best 23miles in the summer 18 in the winter.
Unfortunately I had not got my head in the right place and found that it affected my enjoyment as I became paranoid about E mileage, instead of just letting it get on with the job. Also the screen was so over complicated it drove me bonkers finding what I wanted. Again I should have just let it do it's own thing.
If Honda don't get off the pot with a PHEV, I will probably go with the new Niro PHEV, which is a fantastic car with a claimed battery range of 40mpg.
I think there will be a HUGE rush for ICE cars in the autumn of '28 to beat the ban. Second hand prices for ICE cars will, in my opinion shoot up at the same time.

[John Ratsey]

All the reviewers praised Honda for sticking with real knobs for the heating control. If they go touch only in future it will be a BIG mistake IMO.

Honda put a touch panel for the heating controls in the Mk 2 HR-V. I reckoned that using it was a safety hazard as it was necessary to stop looking at the road in order to change a setting. I recall (perhaps incorrectly) that Honda's marketing info for the Mk 4 Jazz mentioned that it had physical heating controls. They never admit getting anything wrong but will highlight when they've addressed the problem.

[5thcivic]

Does this make sense?

My E is around 4.5 miles/kwh and my October electricity wll be 34p per kwh (up from 28p now) so that will be around 7.6p per mile.

My Jazz EX is around 56 mpg so far (only few weeks), at £1.60 a litre = £7.28 a gallon, so that is around 13p/mile. (1 litre = 0.22 gallon)

My old Civic was around 34 mpg so almost double that.

[Jocko]

My E is around 4.5 miles/kwh and my October electricity wll be 34p per kwh (up from 28p now) so that will be around 7.6p per mile.

If you can charge at home and the bulk of your miles do not require public charging then an EV is the way to go. An e would suit me perfectly.

[John Ratsey]

My E is around 4.5 miles/kwh and my October electricity wll be 34p per kwh (up from 28p now) so that will be around 7.6p per mile.

My Jazz EX is around 56 mpg so far (only few weeks), at £1.60 a litre = £7.28 a gallon, so that is around 13p/mile. (1 litre = 0.22 gallon)

Your sums make sense although I'm surprised by the high miles/kWh you are getting from the E. I assume you are keeping away from fast roads and don't use the heating.

Having both an EV and an ICE car is a good solution if one can justify it. Use the former for the shorter trips within its range and the latter for the longer trips. Such an arrangement is easier to adopt if it's a two driver household which already has two vehicles.

[FMIB]

Does this make sense?

My E is around 4.5 miles/kwh and my October electricity wll be 34p per kwh (up from 28p now) so that will be around 7.6p per mile.

My Jazz EX is around 56 mpg so far (only few weeks), at £1.60 a litre = £7.28 a gallon, so that is around 13p/mile. (1 litre = 0.22 gallon)

My old Civic was around 34 mpg so almost double that.

Your numbers add up.
I had an e for a year and made a sudden decision to sell it and ordered a new Jazz. That was partly driven by the expected rise in electricity prices of 50p+, 70p+ and £1 later in 2023, prior to the current Government intervention, the dealer offering more than I paid for it as well as some practicality issues that are better addressed for me by the Jazz.
My 1 year average in the e was 3.1miles/kwh and for the coming winter, I would unlikely better 2.5-2.8m/kwh. No road tax on the e, but road tax on the Jazz, the e needed a £600+ charge point which adds around £3.70 per charge assuming 2 charges a week, depreciated over 3 years.
As things stand today, overall the running costs are similar, but I gain the better practicality of the Jazz, but lose the driving dynamics of the e.
If I had to rely on public chargers, some are now charging up to £1/kwh, that would have made the e so much more expensive to run and not viable.
Now the several month wait for the Jazz to arrive.

[Bristol_Crosstar]

A PHEV is the best of both worlds in my opinion. It runs like a normal hybrid but if you plug it in and charge it up it can give you 35 - 40 miles of pure electric motoring. If you have a drive you can charge it off a normal 13A plug as you are not having to fully charge a big battery as in an EV.

It doesn't run like a self-charging hybrid, it uses the battery until it's out of power (usually after about 30 miles) then it runs on the ICE not very efficiently as it's got the extra weight of the larger batteries, it doesn't do any charging while driving so nothing like the Jazz. So you have to plug it in AND put petrol in to use it properly.

Wrong! For example, the Toyota PHEVs (in PHEV mode) also fill the battery through regenerative braking (just like a Jazz).
Similar to standard hybrids (HEVs), the PHEVs also have hybrid vehicle mode which blends power from the gasoline engine and hybrid battery.
So you can initially drive fully electric, say about 30 miles and then switch to hybrid mode. Then the PHEV works as a "normal" hybrid, but it weighs quite a bit more.

I don't know about the Toyota you've mentioned but we have friends who've got a Mitsubishi PHEV and once the battery's used up it's just a petrol car with extra weight to carry. The petrol engine does not charge the battery like in a self charging hybrid, there may be a small charge through regenerative braking while in electric mode but this doesn't amount to much.

[embee]

There was quite a lot of work done on "range extender" (RE) generators, I had a very small involvement in some R&D with an engine company a few years ago. The car would be essentially a PEV designed to run primarily on battery, but as/when the charge level dropped to a certain level the RE generator would fire up and provide both tractive power to the electric motor and also some recharging if necessary.
In a small family car (Golf/Focus) sized vehicle the RE was around 40kW output, plenty enough to make the car driveable in most road conditions.
I assume development in battery/motor technology has made this approach less attractive, and pure EV or hybrid with "light" EV characteristics and a mainstream ICE power unit have become the more common solutions. I don't think we'll see RE cars on the market now, it might make some sense for other types of vehicles.
Personally I still think the RE concept has a lot going for it, a true EV for most circumstances but without excessively large batteries yet the ability to do unlimited mileage using an ICE albeit with restricted performance, but enough to live with.
The RE engines are designed to run at only one or two speed/load points, where fuel efficiency is pretty much optimised, for example 2000rpm half load (say 10kW) for maintaining EV range and 4000rpm full load (say 40kW) for traction power as required. They could be optimised for these conditions.

[Jocko]

As a teenager, I designed exactly such a system but it never went beyond the drawing board. Batteries were so heavy and inefficient but it was a great exercise in future thinking. Who would have thought.............

[Jazzik]

Nice conversation here, but getting back to the question "Hybrid..is it the future?"
No... for me it's been the present, every day for years. And the (near) future will, I hope, also be (for a few more years) Hybrid.
And what the further future will bring? Who knows, my crystal ball has fallen into shards...

[Lord Voltermore]

I plan on  keeping  my hybrid for 5 years. I will then reassess whether battery technology  and the public charging infrastructure has moved on enough to tempt me to full EV ( I cant see it being any sooner, but who knows ) . 
 
I think during the 2020's and 2030's hybrids  and  I.C.E  cars will still hold  a reasonable  used car value and might even be sought after.    Not everyone can afford a newer EV.