CVT

[madasafish]

To each his own, if the i-shift suits you and you don't like the CVT so be it.

I think Vic hit the nail on the head here, the CVT and i-Shift are like chalk and cheese. Both require subtle modifications to your driving style, if you are used to a manual... it's just that the CVT and i-Shift behave very differently in some circumstances.

Personally, I don't mind automated manuals, though they not without problems. The actuators on most manufacturer's gearboxes seem to be particularly failure prone, and unless the garage understand how to carry out the necessary calibration procedures, even a clutch change can cause untold grief.

I often wonder why Honda never offered a Jazz with a conventional auto in the UK, when they are so common in other markets. A bit off topic, but if you are into autos and ever get a chance, try the CR-V with the fabulous ZF 9 speed auto - it's as smooth as silk.

EU homologation costs + higher fuel consumption means higher UK Taxes . need to keep overall emissions low to meet  EU regs and avoid fuel consumption penalties?

[coffeecup]

'Here we go again, I-shift versus CVT.
Why do you think Honda dropped the I-shift gearbox very quickly? Simply because nobody liked it and it was rubbish'
                                                             
                                                            --------------------------
The auto mode is crap, i never use it, always use the paddles and its superb....instant pull and no messing with a clutch.

                                                            --------------------------

' put it in S mode then press the accelerator fully down then press it a bit further down and it absolutely flies'

That's clever, if you press the accelerator FULLY down, it won't go any further!!!

[Jocko]

The place where the CVT is crap is from a standing start. I found it hard to judge situations like turning right into side roads with heavy traffic coming the other way, or pulling onto a busy roundabout

That is where the conventional automatic is brilliant. You just push the loud pedal and it goes. I have seen off many a much more powerful car away from the traffic lights at the East end of the M8. I used to love it when a BMW would pull alongside in lane 2. I would welly it up to 70 mph then switch in the CC as he shot past and on up to 80 - 90 mph.
I have never found anything "slush" about the auto boxes I had. The Carlton had 3 ratios, the Cavalier 4 and the Volvo 5. My brother's BMW has 8 and the changes are absolutely seamless when driving that.

[sparky Paul]

EU homologation costs + higher fuel consumption means higher UK Taxes . need to keep overall emissions low to meet  EU regs and avoid fuel consumption penalties?

I don't see how it can be regulatory or homologation problems - there are plenty of cars on sale in the UK that use far more fuel than an automatic Jazz would, and Honda have used conventional autos in other models during the life of the Jazz.

However, the latter point about fuel consumption sounds more likely - maybe Honda considered the more economical CVT and i-Shift to be more preferable to the European market, with it's higher fuel taxes.

[sparky Paul]

I used to love it when a BMW would pull alongside in lane 2. I would welly it up to 70 mph then switch in the CC as he shot past and on up to 80 - 90 mph.

That's what I do with 'em 

[equaliser]

That's clever, if you press the accelerator FULLY down, it won't go any further!!!

Oh yes it does! Press the pedal to the floor then press a bit harder until it clicks then it activates the kick-down. You would know if you pressed it hard enough as the revs shoot right up to the max revs and off she goes!

[guest9236]

You pay your money and takes yer choice, an older version or the later updated CVT it  goes like sh..t off a shovel.
IF you know how to drive it ??!!
But obviously not a lot of people know that YET.

[TnTkr]

It would be nice to test drive North American model GE Fit with conventional 5-speed automatic gearbox.

[VicW]

I think that what puts a lot of people off the CVT is the way that the  revs rise immediately you open the throttle, the wider the opening the higher it revs and the noisier it gets. I think that,subconsciously, they think that some damage will occur to the engine if you rev it. This is definitely not so, the vtech engine thrives on revs, if it didn't the start of the redline wouldn't be as high as 6,500 so don't be afraid to open the throttle, use the 'S' mode that what it's there for.

Vic.

[ColinS]

I think that what puts a lot of people off the CVT is the way that the  revs rise immediately you open the throttle, the wider the opening the higher it revs and the noisier it gets. I think that,subconsciously, they think that some damage will occur to the engine if you rev it. This is definitely not so, the vtech engine thrives on revs, if it didn't the start of the redline wouldn't be as high as 6,500 so don't be afraid to open the throttle, use the 'S' mode that what it's there for.

Vic.

I agree Vic.  If only you could totally remove the engine noise and take away the tachometer, I'm sure the majority of drivers would delight in the Jazz CVT.  Ignorance is bliss.

[Ralph]

The place where the CVT is crap is from a standing start. I found it hard to judge situations like turning right into side roads with heavy traffic coming the other way, or pulling onto a busy roundabout

That is where the conventional automatic is brilliant. You just push the loud pedal and it goes. I have seen off many a much more powerful car away from the traffic lights at the East end of the M8. I used to love it when a BMW would pull alongside in lane 2. I would welly it up to 70 mph then switch in the CC as he shot past and on up to 80 - 90 mph.
I have never found anything "slush" about the auto boxes I had. The Carlton had 3 ratios, the Cavalier 4 and the Volvo 5. My brother's BMW has 8 and the changes are absolutely seamless when driving that.

I think that what puts a lot of people off the CVT is the way that the  revs rise immediately you open the throttle, the wider the opening the higher it revs and the noisier it gets. I think that,subconsciously, they think that some damage will occur to the engine if you rev it. This is definitely not so, the vtech engine thrives on revs, if it didn't the start of the redline wouldn't be as high as 6,500 so don't be afraid to open the throttle, use the 'S' mode that what it's there for.

Vic.

I agree Vic.  If only you could totally remove the engine noise and take away the tachometer, I'm sure the majority of drivers would delight in the Jazz CVT.  Ignorance is bliss.

I haven’t been put off the CVT I still have one but now it is backed up with an electric motor (Toyota hybrid) Which sets off like a scalded cat there’s nothing wrong with revving an engine, its the zero to 20mph performance that I didn’t like about the Jazz. The Honda engine is only happy when it’s above 3000rpm after which it fly’s

[John Ratsey]

I will consider a jazz hybrid or Crosstar for my next car but I was wondering about performance on hills.  One long hill I frequently go up is a steady climb of about 2 miles.  Could the battery run out before the top of the hill is reached and would it cause a loss of power being reliant on the engine alone?

The battery won't power the car very far up a significant hill. The system will run the engine at whatever revs are necessary to provide the power needed to propel the vehicle up the hill at whatever speed the driver wants (subject to the engine's maximum power output). As happens with a non-hybrid Jazz, going up a significant hill quickly puts the engine into what I call it's noisy mode (but sound-proofing on the Mk. 4 is improved). When I first got my Crosstar, I improvised a tachometer and noted the engine running at about 3500 rpm going up a 1 in 6 hill at 40? mph.

I haven’t been put off the CVT I still have one but now it is backed up with an electric motor (Toyota hybrid) Which sets off like a scalded cat there’s nothing wrong with revving an engine, its the zero to 20mph performance that I didn’t like about the Jazz. The Honda engine is only happy when it’s above 3000rpm after which it fly’s

Honda's eCVT system does away with the gearbox completely and relies on electronics between the generator and motor with power going from / to the battery as needed to balance engine speed and power output to what's needed to move the vehicle. The 80kW motor (with maximum torque at 0 revs) imeans that the Mk 4 Jazz is capable of the scalded cat behaviour with the battery providing instant power closely followed by the engine spinning up and taking over as the main power source. See my description here https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=12223.msg84761#msg84761 of overtaking a tractor.

[peteo48]

I think Vic has "nailed" the issue with the CVT. It's why I was reluctant to get one having been a passenger in one. The engine racing and I'm thinking damage if it's cold but, crucially, what's that doing to the fuel consumption?

The reality is different in practice as I found out. The initial high revs are then followed by the car running at virtual tickover speed at 30 mph in a built up area.

[equaliser]

I think Vic has "nailed" the issue with the CVT. It's why I was reluctant to get one having been a passenger in one. The engine racing and I'm thinking damage if it's cold but, crucially, what's that doing to the fuel consumption?

The reality is different in practice as I found out. The initial high revs are then followed by the car running at virtual tickover speed at 30 mph in a built up area.

I like to think of this behaviour as similar to a diesel-electric train. It revs up highly to get up to speed then it 'ticks over' to maintain the set speed.

[jamesdean]

I am surprised by by the antipathy shown by some to the I-shift. I feel that the problem is twofold; the owner needs to understand both the driving AND the mechanics to get the best from the Jazz I-shift. The car needs to be set up correctly, well maintained with the recommended oil and wheels/tyres. Honda recommend 0W-20 synthetic oil and expensive spark plugs; why would you compromise the life of your motor by using anything inferior?
Mine has nearly 170k miles and does not use oil or coolant. It out-performs many larger engined vehicles.
The only concession to original spec I have indulged in Mitchellen tyres which I inflate a little lower than original.
My driving is a mix of heavy urban and long distance Motorway/A roads. It is by far the best car I have owned.