Author Topic: Brakes overhaul  (Read 2072 times)

FordPrefect8

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Brakes overhaul
« on: August 02, 2020, 06:06:59 PM »
So this has been looming over ever since I got my hotrod in February. Need sensible set of discs (slotted preferably) + pads, not sure if not calipers as well but let's assume so.
Not looking for anything with "sport" label attached to it, need the brakes to work both when cold and hot, preferably an optimal aftermarket upgrade from OEM. Scouring ECP, CMP, TegiwaImports etc. brings no sensible choices.

I call upon shared collective knowledge of DIY JazzMasters, what would you recommend? I assume you've done it times over and tried various combinations.

madasafish

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Re: Brakes overhaul
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2020, 06:48:49 PM »
I use Brembo  .. wait till ECP have a 50% + discount on so relatively cheap.

Made Jazz brakes far less fierce and no diminution of stopping power.

Jocko

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FordPrefect8

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Re: Brakes overhaul
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2020, 07:15:19 PM »

FordPrefect8

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Re: Brakes overhaul
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2020, 07:17:22 PM »
I use Brembo  .. wait till ECP have a 50% + discount on so relatively cheap.

Made Jazz brakes far less fierce and no diminution of stopping power.

"less fierce"?

Jocko

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Re: Brakes overhaul
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2020, 07:26:08 PM »
My Mk 1 can be very fierce at low speeds. Was embarrassing but after 4 years I seem to have got the better of it.

FordPrefect8

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Re: Brakes overhaul
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2020, 08:45:49 PM »
https://www.demon-tweeks.com/uk/performance/brakes/brake-disc-pad-kits/shop-by/vaa__vehicles_code/59171d1539a9f/

Managed to find Ultimax 2 full car set for £210
https://ebcbrakesdirect.com/automotive/honda/jazz/1.4-2008-2015/5406#
as opposed to demon-tweeks £265 for two separate sets.

Ok, so what about the caliper? I doubt that any will need replacing but I'm guessing I do want to change all the rubber seals and maybe a new piston?
Just going down the potential checklist before I start. I have all the appropriate lubricants like red rubber grease safe for braking fluid, fresh unopened bottle of DOT4, flexible tube + bottle contraption to bleed old fluid, tonne of degreasants, brake cleaners, looseners and penetrants etc...
What did I miss?

(I don't suppose I want braided brake hoses?)

culzean

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Re: Brakes overhaul
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2020, 09:01:43 PM »
https://www.demon-tweeks.com/uk/performance/brakes/brake-disc-pad-kits/shop-by/vaa__vehicles_code/59171d1539a9f/

Managed to find Ultimax 2 full car set for £210
https://ebcbrakesdirect.com/automotive/honda/jazz/1.4-2008-2015/5406#
as opposed to demon-tweeks £265 for two separate sets.

Ok, so what about the caliper? I doubt that any will need replacing but I'm guessing I do want to change all the rubber seals and maybe a new piston?
Just going down the potential checklist before I start. I have all the appropriate lubricants like red rubber grease safe for braking fluid, fresh unopened bottle of DOT4, flexible tube + bottle contraption to bleed old fluid, tonne of degreasants, brake cleaners, looseners and penetrants etc...
What did I miss?

(I don't suppose I want braided brake hoses?)

Never had to replace any brake seals on any Honda I have had, and they covered plenty of miles ( did 190,000 miles in a civic ). The thing that causes brake problems is leaving fluid in too long - the fluid absorbs water and if not changed at reasonable period ( 3 years max ) the water can cause corrosion in the system.. I use a mityvac and change fluid every couple of years.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

sparky Paul

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Re: Brakes overhaul
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2020, 09:46:01 AM »
The thing that causes brake problems is leaving fluid in too long - the fluid absorbs water and if not changed at reasonable period ( 3 years max ) the water can cause corrosion in the system..

Absolutely agree - that's what does your calipers in.

FordPrefect8

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Re: Brakes overhaul
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2020, 01:02:11 PM »
The thing that causes brake problems is leaving fluid in too long - the fluid absorbs water and if not changed at reasonable period ( 3 years max ) the water can cause corrosion in the system..

Absolutely agree - that's what does your calipers in.

Cool, so first, flush the braking fluid. Do I need to do wheels in any sequence?

madasafish

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Re: Brakes overhaul
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2020, 01:47:05 PM »
Furthest from the master cylinder first .. with nearest last.. is the usual rule..

equaliser

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Re: Brakes overhaul
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2020, 02:17:05 PM »
It used to be rear opposite side of the master cylinder first then the opposite front then the last rear then the last front, so diagonally opposed but it might have changed over the years (I was a mechanic back in the early nineties).

culzean

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Re: Brakes overhaul
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2020, 02:35:46 PM »
My Haynes manual for Jazz says LH front, RH front, RH rear, LH rear.

Make sure you get old fluid out ot reservoir first and top up with new fluid,  other wise you will just be drawing old fluid into system.  Whatever you do keep reservoir topped up,  if you let fluid get too low and suck air into the hydraulic system of ABS brakes you are into a world of pain, once it gets into ABS block the only way to get it out again is to plug in a special ( expensive ) diagnostic  tool and open the ABS valve solenoids, otherwise you will never get brakes firm again,  and air in the ABS valves and pump can cause other problems.   

A suck only brake bleeding mityvac pump is a nice piece of kit,
 
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mityvac-MV8000-Test-kit/dp/B00265M9SS/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=Mityvac&qid=1596462837&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEzM0kwRkM3OFE3MTI1JmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMzAzNTI3MkVVVTNKMzBZWkRDUSZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMzYyMTY4MVBKTFdPVlBNSlgwTiZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=


the beauty is that the fluid never goes near the pump, it is pulled into a reservoir,  and if you top the master cylinder reservoir up to top the mityvac reservoir is about the same size so you know when the mityvac bottle starting to get full it is time to top up the master cylinder reservoir again. You really can do the brakes on your own with a mityvac.  You will find when using a vacuum extractor that you will get a lot of bubbles being sucked out,  this is just air that is finding its way past the bleed nipple thread and being sucked straight back out.  You can minimise the amount of air by putting some plumbers PTFE tape around thread of the nipple. The mityvac pulls really good vacuum with little effort.

You can get a suck and blow ( model MV8500 silverline )mityvac for about £30 more than suck only ( sometimes the blow bit is used by mechanics to find leaks ).   Had my suck and blow ( vacuum and up to 30 PSI pressue , this version has a built in vacuum and pressure gauge ) had the vac and pressure model for many years,  I use it on motorbikes and cars, very well made piece of kit and worth it if you have several vehicles to look after.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2020, 02:55:59 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

FordPrefect8

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Re: Brakes overhaul
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2020, 02:46:38 PM »
My Haynes manual for Jazz says LH front, RH front, RH rear, LH rear.

Make sure you get old fluid out ot reservoir first and top up with new fluid,  other wise you will just be drawing old fluid into system.  Whatever you do keep reservoir topped up,  if you let fluid get too low and suck air into the hydraulic system of ABS brakes you are into a world of pain, once it gets into ABS block the only way to get it out again is to plug in a special ( expensive ) diagnostic  tool and open the ABS valve solenoids, otherwise you will never get brakes firm again,  and air in the ABS valves and pump can cause other problems.   

Nice, thanks a lot Culzean for the info and warning. Do you apply copper grease on disc mount or anywhere else?

sparky Paul

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Re: Brakes overhaul
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2020, 03:07:50 PM »
My Haynes manual for Jazz says LH front, RH front, RH rear, LH rear.

With brake circuits all now fed through ABS modulator blocks, you have to follow the manufacturer's recommended sequence, as given above.

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