Author Topic: Mark 3 Engine design  (Read 9701 times)

DWF

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Re: Mark 3 Engine design
« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2016, 10:59:52 AM »

The low end is Atkinson cycle and configured for economy, not performance. The switch over is, I would guess, somewhere between 2500 and 3000 rpm. The CVT version is capable of fairly effortless cruising at 70 mph with the engine well under 2500 rpm.

I always thought that Atkinson cycles were only best for CVT and hybrids and not really suitable for manual gearboxes. I put down the 'two stage' feel to the V Tech opening up

jazzaro

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Re: Mark 3 Engine design
« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2016, 08:50:10 PM »
I have found that the new 1.3 engine is quite a "two stage" unit with nothing happening below 2,000RPM and then a rapid response from 3,000 on. Also the first gear is a little short I think. Don't tell Honda but, I hit the rev limiter last week while pulling away in a spirited fashion which is something I have never done in my last two Jazzs
The low end is Atkinson cycle and configured for economy, not performance. The switch over is, I would guess, somewhere between 2500 and 3000 rpm. The CVT version is capable of fairly effortless cruising at 70 mph with the engine well under 2500 rpm.
The switch between Otto and Atkinson cycles is under 3000rpm and happens considering engine load, water cooling T° and other parameters; with full throttle you will run on Otto Cycle, not Atkinson.
The engine, a L13B series, one spark for each cylinder, indirect fuel injection, has silent timing chain, two over head cams and one VVT  for each ohc, using them independely and operating the throttle  the engine can easily switch between otto and atkinson.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2016, 04:24:08 PM by jazzaro »

mikebore

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Re: Mark 3 Engine design
« Reply #17 on: July 05, 2016, 07:08:17 AM »
I am still having a bit of difficulty really understanding the Atkinson cycle, but found this Lexus article gives the best explanation with animations I have seen yet.

jazzaro

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Re: Mark 3 Engine design
« Reply #18 on: July 05, 2016, 09:56:17 AM »
Yes, correct.
The only mistake that every journalist make is in the name... This is the MILLER Cycle, naturally aspirated or supercharged with a Roots compressor (never with a turbocharger), and it uses a delay of aspiration valve closure: the Atkinson Cycle literlaly increase the expansion vs compression (achieving efficiency) using a complex piston linkage:




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mikebore

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Re: Mark 3 Engine design
« Reply #19 on: July 05, 2016, 10:24:16 AM »
Yes, correct.
The only mistake that every journalist make is in the name... This is the MILLER Cycle, naturally aspirated or supercharged with a Roots compressor (never with a turbocharger), and it uses a delay of aspiration valve closure: the Atkinson Cycle literlaly increase the expansion vs compression (achieving efficiency) using a complex piston linkage:

I have not heard of the Miller cycle before, but just found this link: Miller vs Atkinson which implies that the Miller cycle is supercharged.

I guess Atkinson didn't think of using variable valve timing to achieve the same effect. The closing of the inlet valve after the start of the compression upstroke reducing the charge. His clever crank arrangement achieved it by different stroke on the compression cycle...I think! I don't profess a full understanding of all this.

jazzaro

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Re: Mark 3 Engine design
« Reply #20 on: July 05, 2016, 10:50:27 AM »
No, Miller cycle engines can be both naturally aspirated or supercharged. The misunderstang is due from commercial matters, Toyota named Atkinson his first Prius engine to distinguish it from some Miller supercharged past engines. If you read universitary books of mechanics, you can immediately understand the difference between Miller and Atkinson.
Till now we've only seen n.a. Miller on hybrid vehicles like HSD  and supercharged Miller on standard cars, as the actual Note and Micra with the 1.2 Digs. The problem is the low power and low torque of N.A Miller engines, nobody would buy a 1.5 16v with only 75ps... Now some Mazda's and Honda's engines, using peculiar materials, desing and strategies, can switch between Miller and Otto joining both efficiency during normal driving (where the engine runs in Miller mode) and power when you deeply press the gas pedal and the engine switches to Otto mode. The technical problem is knocking, because old petrol engines could not run on Otto Cycle with 13,5:1 of Compression Ratio, but a 10,5:1 RC is good for Ottos, not for Millers... Now Honda and Mazda can do it, look at this: http://www.mazda.com/en/innovation/technology/skyactiv/skyactiv-g/
They don't say the Skyactive runs in Miller Cycle, but with low power request it runs in Miller mode variyng the camshaft timing.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2016, 01:40:27 PM by jazzaro »

mikebore

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Re: Mark 3 Engine design
« Reply #21 on: July 05, 2016, 10:58:34 AM »
Thanks very much...all fascinating!


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