Author Topic: HR-V and new Civic drive train.  (Read 1334 times)

Expatman

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HR-V and new Civic drive train.
« on: August 18, 2022, 02:12:27 PM »
Road tests off the new Civic have praised the quiet, smooth continuity of the drive train with no comments about the “mooing” that bedevilled reviews of the HR-V. This seems to be due to the 2.0L engine and electric motor integration. if it is so good one can only wonder if it will find its way into the HR-V at some stage. Better on-road performance without the engine noise every road tester complains about - even if owners claim it is not an issue.

Saycol

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Re: HR-V and new Civic drive train.
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2022, 07:12:46 PM »
I currently have a Jazz Crosstar but recently test drove the new Civic. I didn’t floor the accelerator but managed very rapid progress in Sport mode without the engine screaming. It did pipe fake gear change noises through the car stereo speakers though! The power to weight ratio must be significantly greater than HR-V so this probably explains why.

Expatman

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Re: HR-V and new Civic drive train.
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2022, 05:15:04 PM »
I currently have a Jazz Crosstar but recently test drove the new Civic. I didn’t floor the accelerator but managed very rapid progress in Sport mode without the engine screaming. It did pipe fake gear change noises through the car stereo speakers though! The power to weight ratio must be significantly greater than HR-V so this probably explains why.
So, was it a lot quieter under “rapid progress” than your Crosstar under the same “rapid progress” conditions?

Kremmen

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Re: HR-V and new Civic drive train.
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2022, 06:24:43 AM »
I don't understand the fake gear changes coming through the speakers.

I prefer silence if possible.
Let's be careful out there !

Pine

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Re: HR-V and new Civic drive train.
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2022, 06:43:37 PM »
I don't understand the fake gear changes coming through the speakers.

I prefer silence if possible.
+1

John Ratsey

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Re: HR-V and new Civic drive train.
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2022, 08:39:50 AM »
I see the Civic as being optimised for faster driving, hence the larger engine which can probably use direct drive at 70mph but will be less efficient in slower conditions when the engine is lightly loaded.
2022 HR-V Elegance, previously 2020 Jazz Crosstar

Expatman

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Re: HR-V and new Civic drive train.
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2022, 02:31:23 PM »
Well, I have finally test driven the HR-V and yes it is very noisy in hilly conditions of North Yorkshire. real problem is it’s quiet normally so the excessive engine roar comes as a shock to driver and passengers when you encounter a steepish hill. If you back-off to quieten things down then speed drops and you lose momentum. However road tests of the new Civic (haven't tried one personally yet) all claim it is very quiet and engine noise is minimal even under acceleration or hill climbing. A quick look at specs explain this because it has a much more powerful 2 litre engine to charge the battery and provide a lot more grunt with less stress.
Now what confuses me is that the top spec Civic costs £32,995 while the top spec HR-V costs £34,859. So you are asked to pay an extra £2,000 for an inferior drive train! Why should an HR-V be £2,000 more expensive than the Civic? Is it just fashion?

John Ratsey

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Re: HR-V and new Civic drive train.
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2022, 12:51:58 PM »
So you are asked to pay an extra £2,000 for an inferior drive train! Why should an HR-V be £2,000 more expensive than the Civic? Is it just fashion?
Fashion is a factor with the HR-V probably being aimed at the smaller end of the Chelsea tractor market (I personally don't like the excessive large and unaerodynamic front grille) for which the 1.5 litre engine is sufficient and more economical than a larger engine. As noted above, I reckon the Civic is more of a motorway cruiser for which the 2 litre engine will be running more efficiently than having the smaller engine having to work outside its zone of optimum efficiency.

Overall, the Mk 3 HR-V is a good vehicle which could be made even better if Honda added a version with the 2 litre drivetrain for those who needed more power. We've seen this happen before with the mid-life addition of the Sport version of both the Mk 3 Jazz and the Mk 2 HR-V with more powerful engines. So far, I've found the current Mk 3 HR-V suitable for my needs as I place value on economy and am willing to accept that it won't fly up hills.
2022 HR-V Elegance, previously 2020 Jazz Crosstar

Expatman

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Re: HR-V and new Civic drive train.
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2022, 02:55:20 PM »
So you are asked to pay an extra £2,000 for an inferior drive train! Why should an HR-V be £2,000 more expensive than the Civic? Is it just fashion?
Fashion is a factor with the HR-V probably being aimed at the smaller end of the Chelsea tractor market (I personally don't like the excessive large and unaerodynamic front grille) for which the 1.5 litre engine is sufficient and more economical than a larger engine. As noted above, I reckon the Civic is more of a motorway cruiser for which the 2 litre engine will be running more efficiently than having the smaller engine having to work outside its zone of optimum efficiency.

Overall, the Mk 3 HR-V is a good vehicle which could be made even better if Honda added a version with the 2 litre drivetrain for those who needed more power. We've seen this happen before with the mid-life addition of the Sport version of both the Mk 3 Jazz and the Mk 2 HR-V with more powerful engines. So far, I've found the current Mk 3 HR-V suitable for my needs as I place value on economy and am willing to accept that it won't fly up hills.
Its not the flying up hills that bothers me but the excessive noise when you simply try and maintain momentum going up hills. In North Yorkshire we have some steep winding hills which requires varying levels of power to maintain speed - its the noise when I increased throttle to maintain normal motion that ruined the car for me - and my passengers.

John Ratsey

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Re: HR-V and new Civic drive train.
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2022, 05:06:36 PM »
I accept the engine noise as being a reminder that the engine is operating well outside its zone of optimum efficiency. Better soundproofing would reduce the noise problem but Honda has opted to be frugal in this respect. My HR-V, however, seems to be a bit quieter than the Crosstar.
2022 HR-V Elegance, previously 2020 Jazz Crosstar

Marco1979

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Re: HR-V and new Civic drive train.
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2022, 08:51:45 AM »
Last week I was able to compare the HR-V and Civic in detail, because they were lined up next to each other. Next to the obvious differences (Civic being much lower and sportier; mind it was also the 'Sport' version, HR-V more roomy and higher, lighter in color) I also noticed that the HR-V is much more luxurious and has better materials used for the interior. The Civic, all black, partial leather seats, felt much less refined then the HR-V.

So I can imagine the HR-V costs more in terms of interior and the Civic in terms of drive train. If I had to choose - and you would have asked me that question 2 weeks ago - I would have said Civic without any doubt. But now, I think the HR-V would actually be my choice. It made a much more positive impression than the Civic. I haven't driven either, so that's still on my to-do-list.

Expatman

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Re: HR-V and new Civic drive train.
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2022, 03:29:58 PM »
I accept the engine noise as being a reminder that the engine is operating well outside its zone of optimum efficiency. Better soundproofing would reduce the noise problem but Honda has opted to be frugal in this respect. My HR-V, however, seems to be a bit quieter than the Crosstar.
But doesn’t it drive you nuts when the engine cuts in with all that noise? Otherwise everything is so tranquil then ROAR ROAR - completely spoiled it for me. Maybe you get used to it but I'm reluctant to spend £30k+ on the hope I will learn to tolerate the noise. I just wonder why Honda didn’t address this in the design stage and either engineer it to be quieter or add more sound proofing. Otherwise I loved the HR-V.

John Ratsey

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Re: HR-V and new Civic drive train.
« Reply #12 on: November 23, 2022, 08:32:06 AM »
But doesn’t it drive you nuts when the engine cuts in with all that noise? Otherwise everything is so tranquil then ROAR ROAR - completely spoiled it for me. Maybe you get used to it but I'm reluctant to spend £30k+ on the hope I will learn to tolerate the noise. I just wonder why Honda didn’t address this in the design stage and either engineer it to be quieter or add more sound proofing. Otherwise I loved the HR-V.
A couple of days ago when joining a fast road I gave the accelerator pedal a firmer push than usual and was quite impressed by the sporty roar from the engine. Some people pay several times the cost of an HR-V for vehicles which roar when asked to accelerate.

Perhpas the forthcoming ZR-V will meet your needs https://global.honda/newsroom/news/2022/4221117eng-zr-v.html as it has the 2 litre engine and eHEV. It will be on sale here next year https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/honda/357643/2023-honda-zr-v-debuts-japan-hybrid-power.

Edit: The ZR-V's dimensions are given here https://paultan.org/2022/11/22/honda-zr-v-going-on-sale-in-japan-from-april-2023/ . A bit bigger than the HR-V.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2022, 08:44:30 AM by John Ratsey »
2022 HR-V Elegance, previously 2020 Jazz Crosstar

Expatman

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Re: HR-V and new Civic drive train.
« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2022, 03:59:34 PM »
But doesn’t it drive you nuts when the engine cuts in with all that noise? Otherwise everything is so tranquil then ROAR ROAR - completely spoiled it for me. Maybe you get used to it but I'm reluctant to spend £30k+ on the hope I will learn to tolerate the noise. I just wonder why Honda didn’t address this in the design stage and either engineer it to be quieter or add more sound proofing. Otherwise I loved the HR-V.
A couple of days ago when joining a fast road I gave the accelerator pedal a firmer push than usual and was quite impressed by the sporty roar from the engine. Some people pay several times the cost of an HR-V for vehicles which roar when asked to accelerate.

Perhpas the forthcoming ZR-V will meet your needs https://global.honda/newsroom/news/2022/4221117eng-zr-v.html as it has the 2 litre engine and eHEV. It will be on sale here next year https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/honda/357643/2023-honda-zr-v-debuts-japan-hybrid-power.

Edit: The ZR-V's dimensions are given here https://paultan.org/2022/11/22/honda-zr-v-going-on-sale-in-japan-from-april-2023/ . A bit bigger than the HR-V.
Thanks but HR-V is plenty big enough for us. Problem is I like the car apart from the engine noise! Anyway decided to give it another test drive and compare it with a VW T-ROC 1.5 Tsi auto I will test the same day. Spec'd similarly the 2 cars are much the same pricewise so its down to how they drive and “feel”.

Kremmen

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Re: HR-V and new Civic drive train.
« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2022, 04:10:43 PM »
If the VW auto is DSG then make sure you try very slow manoeuvres like you would with say parallel parking or reversing into a garage.

In the DSG I tested that was very difficult as it doesn't slow creep like a conventional auto. It was like driving a manual where the clutch was fully engaged so the 'creep' speed was quite fast.
Let's be careful out there !

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