Author Topic: CVT  (Read 5425 times)

coffeecup

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CVT
« on: August 06, 2020, 08:08:39 PM »
Been on holiday driving the mother in law's 2016 CVT jazz with 6k on the clock, as she wanted us to 'give it a good run'

Well, what a pile of cxxp, it's like having constant slip and no instant bite like my i-shift, tried sport mode!!! why bother? Hardly any difference.

After a week touring some great roads in Scotland, i only wish i didn't bother taking her car.

Welcome back i-shift.

guest9236

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Re: CVT
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2020, 07:36:25 AM »
You did not like it then??

DomnicZZ

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Re: CVT
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2020, 08:01:31 AM »
I moved to a CVT from a manual about 4 months back. Granted the Ability to drop into 3rd and quickly pick up for overtaking etc isn’t really existent with a CVT, but I’ve got used to it, and learnt to drive in a relaxed mode, slowly accelerating as well slowing down. I think I like it, but agree that it won’t be everyone’s cup of tea.
My Jazz: 2004 CVT

guest9236

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Re: CVT
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2020, 08:25:19 AM »
We like the CVT it is a comfortable little car it is economical, and easy and relaxing to drive, on the occasion to overtake it requires a little thought and safety can be observed, unlike the usual roar up behind and overtake come what may individuals, who then pull sharply across the front of the vehicle overtaken only to slow down and be a
P I T A  just so they can be in front.
I suggest most Jazz drivers are a considerate lot even if they are driving a CVT.
But you can never tell you still must get the chaps in hurry to  go nowhere fast.!!!

VicW

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Re: CVT
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2020, 08:35:36 AM »
I have owned CVT Jazzs's for years and disagree with the comments that they 'don't go'. The gearbox responds to the throttle very well, open the throttle wide and the gearbox changes down and the car accelerates, ignore the noise of the engine revving that's how it works . The 'S' mode most certainly does make a difference, the engine will readily 'red line' and provide extra performance for overtaking, joining roads from side roads etc. I was loaned an i-shift Jazz for an extended test and thought it was appalling no matter what you did with the throttle. You shouldn't have to anticipate gear changes by lifting off the throttle or manually shift gears, you might as well drive a manual box.
To each his own, if the i-shift suits you and you don't like the CVT so be it.

Vic.

Kenneve

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Re: CVT
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2020, 09:15:05 AM »
Here we go again, I-shift versus CVT.
Why do you think Honda dropped the I-shift gearbox very quickly? Simply because nobody liked it and it was rubbish.

It seems many drivers have no idea how to drive an Automatic fitted with a relatively small engine.
Any small engine has to rev, to develop maximum horsepower and the Jazz engine is no different.
Maximum power occurs at circa 6000 rpm  and max torque at around 5000 rpm, see attached graph.

https://www.automobile-catalog.com/curve/2016/2182055/honda_jazz_1_3_i-vtec.html

Modern versions of the CVT have 7 virtual speeds obtained by use of the paddles.
So, if you want to suddenly accelerate to overtake etc, you simply flick the 'Down' paddle to change 'gear' and put your foot down. Yes, the engine will rev, as it's designed to do, your I-shift box does the same.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2020, 09:29:15 AM by Kenneve »

peteo48

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Re: CVT
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2020, 10:21:38 AM »
It's an interesting debate. There will be some old posts from me dissing the CVT on the basis of car sharing with a pal who has a Mk2 CVT. I felt the engine was noisy and had a "droning" sound (I'm not the only person to have noticed this although some CVT advocates don't like the word).

Having said all that I am now on my second CVT and have come to like them (I have no experience of any other automatic other than as a passenger). They provide a relaxed driving experience in traffic and I like the low revs when you hit, say, 70 mph cruising speed. I have also found the paddles effective as is sports mode. I rarely use them though but there is the odd occasion when you need to get a shift on. There is a notoriously fast motorway roundabout I use occasionally and dropping into S mode gives me that ability to avoid being "bullied" by faster traffic.

I wouldn't go back to a manual now.

equaliser

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Re: CVT
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2020, 11:03:55 AM »
I love the CVT! It's smooth and relaxing while taking your time and if you feel the need for speed then put it in S mode then press the accelerator fully down then press it a bit further down and it absolutely flies down the road. It amazes me that people don't understand how they work then come out with' it's rubbish' statements - learn how to drive it properly, it's not an automated manual or slush box auto and doesn't behave like one.

Jocko

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Re: CVT
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2020, 11:32:06 AM »
I have driven "slush box" automatics for years (25 years prior to getting the Jazz) and love them. Just like driving a manual without the clutch to worry about. I tried a CVT and have to agree it is smooth and hassle free. I just don't like the feeling you are driving a car with a constantly slipping clutch. If I owned one I'd probably grow to like it. However I wouldn't get one through choice. It would have to be an offer I couldn't refuse from a family member or the like.

Ralph

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Re: CVT
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2020, 11:48:09 AM »
The place where the CVT is crap is from a standing start. I found it hard to judge situations like turning right into side roads with heavy traffic coming the other way, or pulling onto a busy roundabout I had a few heart stopping moments when it wouldn't do anything other than gentle acceleration no matter what I did with the right peddle. Sport mode or steering wheel paddle's make no difference in this situation. However once you are up and running the CVT is very good  especially on fast roads when the engine could get into its power zone. But as most of my time is spent commuting in heavy traffic sadly the car had to go.

culzean

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Re: CVT
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2020, 12:26:26 PM »
I have driven "slush box" automatics for years (25 years prior to getting the Jazz) and love them. Just like driving a manual without the clutch to worry about. I tried a CVT and have to agree it is smooth and hassle free. I just don't like the feeling you are driving a car with a constantly slipping clutch. If I owned one I'd probably grow to like it. However I wouldn't get one through choice. It would have to be an offer I couldn't refuse from a family member or the like.

I agree about conventional auto boxes, they have a much better feel to them,  the CVT is not good in some situations as posted by Ralph, my wifes previous CVT ( not Honda ) developed a fault where randomly would not take up the drive when pulling away at junctions, islands etc. it was very embarrassing and all down to a £10 switch on the brake pedal ( designed to disconnect drive if brakes were pressed ) - the main dealer had it for 2 weeks and changed the ECU but did not cure the problem,  we took it to a smaller dealer and the bloke said right away it would be the brake switch, took it in next day and 15 minutes and £15 the car was cured....
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

madasafish

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Re: CVT
« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2020, 12:28:12 PM »
The place where the CVT is crap is from a standing start. I found it hard to judge situations like turning right into side roads with heavy traffic coming the other way, or pulling onto a busy roundabout I had a few heart stopping moments when it wouldn't do anything other than gentle acceleration no matter what I did with the right peddle. Sport mode or steering wheel paddle's make no difference in this situation. However once you are up and running the CVT is very good  especially on fast roads when the engine could get into its power zone. But as most of my time is spent commuting in heavy traffic sadly the car had to go.

The standing start problem is because Honda chose to use an engine design which is pants - certainly at low revs.

My 2012 CVT will fly from a standing start. S mode, foot hard down on accelerator, tiny shriek of rubber from front tyres until traction control engages.. and off like a rocket.. 

(Not that I drive like that every day of course..... :P )

John Ratsey

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Re: CVT
« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2020, 12:34:43 PM »
I didn't like the CVT implementation on the Mk 3 Jazz. It was programmed to rev the engine whenever there was more than a light touch on the accelerator pedal because the Atkinson cycle mode (below about 3,000 rpm) didn't provide much power. It was an economical vehicle but after a year I'd had enough and it was traded in for a CVT HR-V which was a much more pleasant vehicle to drive with engine speed much more in proportion to the pressure on the accelerator pedal.
2022 HR-V Elegance, previously 2020 Jazz Crosstar

Pine

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Re: CVT
« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2020, 01:45:20 PM »
I have had a Mk1 and a Mk2 Jazz CVT, and generally I liked them both.  But I have a relaxed driving style that suits the nature of CVTs.  If you are a foot down press on type then a CVT is probably not for you.  Most motoring journalists would fall into the later category and that is most likely why they have a downer on CVTs.

I found the Mk1 Jazz CVT nicer to drive than the Mk2 as the Mk2 has no low down torque and didn't perform well on the many hills near where I live.  Max torque Mk2 @ 4800 rpm, max torque Mk1 @ 2800 rpm.

I will consider a jazz hybrid or Crosstar for my next car but I was wondering about performance on hills.  One long hill I frequently go up is a steady climb of about 2 miles.  Could the battery run out before the top of the hill is reached and would it cause a loss of power being reliant on the engine alone?

sparky Paul

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Re: CVT
« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2020, 03:02:29 PM »
To each his own, if the i-shift suits you and you don't like the CVT so be it.

I think Vic hit the nail on the head here, the CVT and i-Shift are like chalk and cheese. Both require subtle modifications to your driving style, if you are used to a manual... it's just that the CVT and i-Shift behave very differently in some circumstances.

Personally, I don't mind automated manuals, though they not without problems. The actuators on most manufacturer's gearboxes seem to be particularly failure prone, and unless the garage understand how to carry out the necessary calibration procedures, even a clutch change can cause untold grief.

I often wonder why Honda never offered a Jazz with a conventional auto in the UK, when they are so common in other markets. A bit off topic, but if you are into autos and ever get a chance, try the CR-V with the fabulous ZF 9 speed auto - it's as smooth as silk.

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