Author Topic: So - my old 'engine struggles to start in winter' problem  (Read 2465 times)

andruec

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So - my old 'engine struggles to start in winter' problem
« on: April 19, 2018, 10:43:36 AM »
Just posting this to illicit some comments. Those of you with long memories will remember that for the first two winters after I bought my Jazz my car had an issue with morning starts (despite being garaged overnight) whereby the initial turn over RPM was very low for a half a second or so before picking up to a more sensible cold idle. On a few occasions the engine failed to ignite at all or cut out.

It always started just fine on the second attempt and almost never caused a problem in the evening (despite being parked outside all day).

But this last winter it has been absolutely fine. Started first time and went straight to a sensible RPM. I'm not aware of anything the dealer might have done to it and they always failed to provide an explanation or advice about it. However there is one thing that has changed that might (big '?' about that) be relevant.

It was suggested that relative humidity might be a problem and that I should try running a dehumidifier in my garage. Well..I did almost do that :)  I already had a dehumidifier that I used when drying clothes indoors. I also occasionally used it in winter to reduce condensation on downstairs windows. I wouldn't say that I had a damp house but when you have double glazing a little condensation is normal I'd say. So this year I decided to run the dehumidifier for the entire winter. It certainly had an effect inside the house because I never had any condensation on internal windows - not even in the corners.

What I'm wondering is if it could actually have dried out the garage as well. I'm sceptical because although the garage is integral to the house there's no access other than the main door. So for the dehumidifier to be the solution to my engine woes it would mean the dehumidifier must have been able to pull moisture through brick walls. I'm sure that's possible with the right equipment because water does move around but this is only a portable dehumidifier.

Thoughts anyone?

culzean

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Re: So - my old 'engine struggles to start in winter' problem
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2018, 12:24:49 PM »
Just posting this to illicit some comments. Those of you with long memories will remember that for the first two winters after I bought my Jazz my car had an issue with morning starts (despite being garaged overnight) whereby the initial turn over RPM was very low for a half a second or so before picking up to a more sensible cold idle. On a few occasions the engine failed to ignite at all or cut out.

It always started just fine on the second attempt and almost never caused a problem in the evening (despite being parked outside all day).

But this last winter it has been absolutely fine. Started first time and went straight to a sensible RPM. I'm not aware of anything the dealer might have done to it and they always failed to provide an explanation or advice about it. However there is one thing that has changed that might (big '?' about that) be relevant.

It was suggested that relative humidity might be a problem and that I should try running a dehumidifier in my garage. Well..I did almost do that :)  I already had a dehumidifier that I used when drying clothes indoors. I also occasionally used it in winter to reduce condensation on downstairs windows. I wouldn't say that I had a damp house but when you have double glazing a little condensation is normal I'd say. So this year I decided to run the dehumidifier for the entire winter. It certainly had an effect inside the house because I never had any condensation on internal windows - not even in the corners.

What I'm wondering is if it could actually have dried out the garage as well. I'm sceptical because although the garage is integral to the house there's no access other than the main door. So for the dehumidifier to be the solution to my engine woes it would mean the dehumidifier must have been able to pull moisture through brick walls. I'm sure that's possible with the right equipment because water does move around but this is only a portable dehumidifier.

Thoughts anyone?

We run an Ebac 3850e smart dehumidifier all year round, and it keeps the house lovely and dry, towels dry quickly  in bathrooms and bed clothes always keep nice and crisp. Condensation and mould are a distant memory.  Costs between fifty and a hundred pounds a year to run and because walls are nice and dry I reckon it saves quite a bit more than that in heating costs.  Also dries clothes using much less energy than a tumble drier.

I originally started using a dehumidifier many years ago when I found out I had an allergy to dust mites (their droppings) they thrive in damp conditions but cannot live in a dry house.

A dehumidifier will suck water out of walls, and bricks will transfer moisture from one room to another.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

andruec

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Re: So - my old 'engine struggles to start in winter' problem
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2018, 04:48:35 PM »
Yeah, that's similar to the one I have. I haven't actually left it running all day and night. It's on a timer so runs from 6am to 8am and 1500 to 2200. Since the house is empty most weekdays there didn't seem any need to have it run 24/7. It definitely helps clothes dry quickly - even more than it used to. Clearly having reduced the RH it now sucks water out of wet clothes far faster.

And, yes, it's supposed to reduce heating costs by removing water (which takes energy to heat it) and releasing the energy from extracted water back into the room. I haven't decided yet whether I'll run it through summer.

culzean

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Re: So - my old 'engine struggles to start in winter' problem
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2018, 04:57:17 PM »
Yeah, that's similar to the one I have. I haven't actually left it running all day and night. It's on a timer so runs from 6am to 8am and 1500 to 2200. Since the house is empty most weekdays there didn't seem any need to have it run 24/7. It definitely helps clothes dry quickly - even more than it used to. Clearly having reduced the RH it now sucks water out of wet clothes far faster.

And, yes, it's supposed to reduce heating costs by removing water (which takes energy to heat it) and releasing the energy from extracted water back into the room. I haven't decided yet whether I'll run it through summer.

Our Ebac 3850e runs continuously for 24 hours after power is cycled and its on-board humistat is supposed to build up a profile of the times it needs to come on. If you leave it on all the time in smart mode after 24 hours it only comes on occasionally when humidity exceeds 50%. There is a 'laundry' override timer which you can press that will cause it to run continuously for either one or two hours and then revert back to smart mode.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

richardfrost

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Re: So - my old 'engine struggles to start in winter' problem
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2018, 11:44:05 AM »
Could I ask if you move the humidifier around or does it do it's job from one place all the time?

Thanks.

andruec

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Re: So - my old 'engine struggles to start in winter' problem
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2018, 12:12:29 PM »
Could I ask if you move the humidifier around or does it do it's job from one place all the time?
I leave mine in the lounge in more or less the same position. If I'm drying clothes I'll move it out from the wall a bit in line with the clothes horse but I don't move it from room to room.

Skyrider

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Re: So - my old 'engine struggles to start in winter' problem
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2018, 02:53:55 PM »
I was rummaging through the (2016) user manual looking for the running in procedure in preparation for the delivery of my new 1.5 jazz and came across the "Press the accelerator pedal if the engine does not start" instruction.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2018, 03:43:10 PM by Deeps »

andruec

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Re: So - my old 'engine struggles to start in winter' problem
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2018, 04:47:09 PM »
I was rummaging through the (2016) user manual looking for the running in procedure in preparation for the delivery of my new 1.5 jazz and came across the "Press the accelerator pedal if the engine does not start" instruction.
But isn't that related to engine flooded conditions? Whatever the problem with my engine was (is?) it's not that. A flooded engine won't start no matter how many times you crank it until such time as you pause and floor the accelerator once. There will also usually be a strong smell of petrol after the engine has started.

Those symptoms are very different to what I (and a couple of others) have described. My engine has started around 99% of the time. It's just that during winter it had a tendency to run very low RPMs for half a second or more before either picking up to a more sensible idle speed or (on very rare occasions) giving up. Pressing the button a second time always saw it leap into life without any need to press the accelerator pedal.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2018, 04:50:29 PM by andruec »

culzean

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Re: So - my old 'engine struggles to start in winter' problem
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2018, 05:32:18 PM »
Could I ask if you move the humidifier around or does it do it's job from one place all the time?
I leave mine in the lounge in more or less the same position. If I'm drying clothes I'll move it out from the wall a bit in line with the clothes horse but I don't move it from room to room.

I leave mine in spare upstairs bedroom (the manufacturers recommend it is better upstairs on a landing if possible as warm damp air rises and bedrooms and bathrooms are where most moisture originates anyway, the average sleeper produces up to a half a litre of humidity a night - cooking can produce humidity but we use cooker hood). You have to leave doors open a little bit to allow air to circulate, but not all the time, in our house we don't leave doors between downstairs and upstairs open and downstairs still feels dry .   We found the house feels much nicer and by lowering humidity in summer makes it easier to sleep and bed clothes stay dry and fresh.  Anyone who dries clothes on radiators or airer in the house is asking for trouble with dampness in the house, you can put an airer full of spin dried clothes into a room with dehumidifier it will normally dry them in a couple of hours, using a fraction of the energy of a tumble drier..
« Last Edit: April 23, 2018, 06:00:25 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

andruec

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Re: So - my old 'engine struggles to start in winter' problem
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2019, 03:33:34 PM »
Just to let everyone know: I've been running my dehumidifier again this year and once again the start up problem has almost entirely gone. It still occasionally starts at slightly low RPM but never 'dangerously' so and always picks up quickly. So either the car has fixed itself or else the problem does relate to humidity. If the latter then kudos to my dehumidifier for being able to dry out an integral garage that has no access to the interior of the house.

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