Author Topic: Aircon just been regassed but no longer works  (Read 2368 times)

monkey64

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Aircon just been regassed but no longer works
« on: February 23, 2022, 10:07:28 AM »
Hi

My Aircon was re-gassed a couple of weeks because it wasn't working well.  I came to it today and although I can hear the compressor kick in when I press the AC button, I don't get any cold air out of it.  I have checked both relays (compressor and fan) and they are both working.

I don't want to pay for another re-gas because I don't think it will last long.  Maybe there is a leak somewhere.  It's probably a job for a specialist but I'm not sure who I need to contact.  Presumably it's not something that a general garage can help with?

culzean

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Re: Aircon just been regassed but no longer works
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2022, 10:30:37 AM »
Most likely suspect is the condensor...

Just replaced the condenser on Civic ( I fitted Nissin one for £95 off ebay ) - due to the lack of protection on all Honda grilles the condensor is very vulnerable to stones- I now fitted some 1/4" square welded stainless steel mesh ( painted matt black ) over the grille.  If the clutch is operating there is gas in the system - but with a hole in the condenser it doesn't stay in there for long as the system pressure is about 200psi.  Have a look at condenser with a torch,  there may well be a 'wet' looking patch on the fins where to leaking gas has left the lubricating oil behind.  Otherwise get some UV die into the system and wait until dark to shine a UV torch around under bonnet - that UV die lights up like it has its own light source ....

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00CAKWJA2/

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00CAKWJA2/

https://themeshcompany.com/product/stainless-steel-304-grade-1-4%e2%80%b3-x-1-4%e2%80%b3-inch-hole-0-7mm-wire-22g-welded-mesh-soffit-rolls/

You get a choice of the width and length you need,  I got the 900mm wide x 1000mm long ( it is delivered rolled up ) and have done 4 cars so far...
« Last Edit: February 23, 2022, 10:38:58 AM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

GBH

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Re: Aircon just been regassed but no longer works
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2022, 06:33:26 PM »
If the compressor kicks in then lack of refrigerant will probably not be your problem. Systems have pressure switches which ensure that the pump/compressor does not engage if there is insufficient pressure.

A good A/C service technician will extract all the refrigerant, draw a vacuum and hold it for a period to check for leaks.
Only when they are satisfied the system is O.K. will they add the correct weight of refrigerant and lubricant.

Personally, I use local mobile services who are usually specialists who know what they are doing, rather than garages who have the service as an add-on to other work.  This is not to say that garages cannot do a good job but many do not have the experience to correctly diagnose a problem at first attempt.

I am fortunate in that contacts in the trade have pointed me in the right direction but if you search the internet for local mobile services (and check the reviews) then you can get someone to visit you.

It may be more expensive than the parts shop / tyre chains but you should only have to pay once.

culzean

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Re: Aircon just been regassed but no longer works
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2022, 09:34:00 AM »
If the compressor kicks in then lack of refrigerant will probably not be your problem. Systems have pressure switches which ensure that the pump/compressor does not engage if there is insufficient pressure.

A good A/C service technician will extract all the refrigerant, draw a vacuum and hold it for a period to check for leaks.
Only when they are satisfied the system is O.K. will they add the correct weight of refrigerant and lubricant.

Personally, I use local mobile services who are usually specialists who know what they are doing, rather than garages who have the service as an add-on to other work.  This is not to say that garages cannot do a good job but many do not have the experience to correctly diagnose a problem at first attempt.

I am fortunate in that contacts in the trade have pointed me in the right direction but if you search the internet for local mobile services (and check the reviews) then you can get someone to visit you.

It may be more expensive than the parts shop / tyre chains but you should only have to pay once.

I had my aircon regassed by ATS,  who are pretty reputable.  The testing / filling machine did not detect the hole in the condenser on the Civic and within a couple of weeks the gas was all gone.  As the gas level drops the first strange thing is that the aircon can actually get colder and freeze up because the compression expansion cycle is not working as designed,  after that the aircon will run but not get cold...  >90% of aircon woes are dues to a holed condenser,  they are not protected from stones at all on many cars, including Honda.   I cut some SS 1/4" welded mesh for my brothers Suzuki Vitara and his son also fitted some to his..   I had done this on all previous Hondas we had, but didn't do it on the Civic - and paid the price ( literally, with a couple of regasses and a new condenser - which I fitted myself ).
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

GBH

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Re: Aircon just been regassed but no longer works
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2022, 11:22:29 AM »

I had my aircon regassed by ATS,  who are pretty reputable.  The testing / filling machine did not detect the hole in the condenser on the Civic and within a couple of weeks the gas was all gone.  As the gas level drops the first strange thing is that the aircon can actually get colder and freeze up because the compression expansion cycle is not working as designed,  after that the aircon will run but not get cold...  >90% of aircon woes are dues to a holed condenser,  they are not protected from stones at all on many cars, including Honda.   I cut some SS 1/4" welded mesh for my brothers Suzuki Vitara and his son also fitted some to his..   I had done this on all previous Hondas we had, but didn't do it on the Civic - and paid the price ( literally, with a couple of regasses and a new condenser - which I fitted myself ).
[/quote]

Went to a Halfords store (not a workshop) for a quick recharge on my Volvo as the A/C was not working and was told that the gas level was O.K.  Thought that as only a gas can with a single pressure gauge was used they must be wrong.  Had an A/C technician with full professional kit check who confirmed the system was full and there was a blockage somewhere in the system.  Turned out that the orifice tube filter was blocked.  Had the gas removed, replaced the filter /tube and dryer myself and then had it tested and recharged and all O.K.

Biggest problem I found is often being able to reach components that appear to be shoe-horned into a car as an afterthought.  As culzean says - prevention is much easier than repair!

Lord Voltermore

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Re: Aircon just been regassed but no longer works
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2022, 12:41:33 PM »
Its always worth checking if the cabin pollen filter has been replaced.   If its not been done the filter can get very black and an insects graveyard. 

Over the years I have twice had a regassing done in hot countries on the continent.  .Different cars . Both times ,despite having sophisticated gear and presumably quite experienced, they failed to spot leaks  (admittedly slight ones , lasted a few months) .   
At least they were R134A refrigerant  , quite cheap.  Newer cars now  use R1234yf refrigerant  which  can cost  twice as much for a regas.

incidentally if there is known to be a significant leak its illegal for  licenced aircon engineers to top it up without fixing the leak.   Or it is in the EU . Maybe Jacob will  add it to the list of brexit opportunities. He might miss it. They didnt have aircon in the 18th century. 
   
They didnt change the pollen filters either.  Not that I asked them to.   These are often missed on routine servicing as well .

Not the same thing as having the system  deep  desanitised  with antibacterial deodorant spray.   :P
« Last Edit: February 25, 2022, 01:15:01 PM by Lord Voltermore »
  Trust a dog to guard your house  , but not your sandwich

monkey64

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Re: Aircon just been regassed but no longer works
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2022, 09:36:50 AM »
Hi

I took the car to my local garage who re-gassed and added some UV dye.  It worked for 2-3 weeks but now the AC clutch doesn't engage and the air is not chilled any more.

I checked with my own UV light and I can see green spatters right by the compressor, see image. The spatters also go down the side of the compressor into the engine compartment.



1. Do you think that what I'm showing in the image is indeed the dye from the gas?
2. If so would you recommend swapping out the whole compressor?
3. Is replacing the compressor a DIY job given that there is little/no gas in the system?

Thanks!

Mark

« Last Edit: March 15, 2022, 09:45:14 AM by monkey64 »

monkey64

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Re: Aircon just been regassed but no longer works
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2022, 08:23:10 AM »
The garage I took the car to couldn't find a leak after adding UV dye to the re-gas.  Neither could I BUT unless you have good access to the condensor, you can't be sure.  And for that you really need to remove the front bumper.

When I looked at the condensor I found loads of tiny rocks embedded in it and this section of damage.  I thought it would be worth swapping the condensor out as they are fairly cheap and it's not in great shape.  Watch this space...

« Last Edit: August 19, 2022, 08:25:12 AM by monkey64 »

olduser1

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Re: Aircon just been regassed but no longer works
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2022, 08:27:51 AM »
And then fit a protective mesh shield.

pebbles

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Re: Aircon just been regassed but no longer works
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2022, 10:42:35 AM »
agree about the condenser vulnerability , this is mine on the 2018 Mk.3 with 30K .

the leak appeared to be near the bottom rh joint , you can see  the PAG oil stain.

caused the same symptoms as mentioned including the strange

 ' As the gas level drops the first strange thing is that the aircon can actually get colder and freeze up because the compression expansion cycle is not working as designed,  after that the aircon will run but not get cold... '

fortunately the condenser was replaced under extended warranty.

Mick Watling

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Re: Aircon just been regassed but no longer works
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2022, 01:18:02 PM »
I had the same problem, it was regased at KwikFit, took it back a week later and they redone it and has been fine all summer.  I am starting to get a smell, sort of like a new car smell, which I think is the gas escaping so I guess I have a leak probably through the seals as they are getting on a bit (2010 model) so it may be time to invest in a new vehicle.

poolski

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Re: Aircon just been regassed but no longer works
« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2022, 11:43:23 AM »
I had air conditioning issues with my EX and it turned out to be a failing compressor clutch relay. Worth checking that out.


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