Author Topic: Transition for manual to CVT - initial thoughts.  (Read 11646 times)

peteo48

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Transition for manual to CVT - initial thoughts.
« on: March 08, 2018, 10:35:34 AM »
It's a big change and one that I have made largely because of joint issues, particularly my left shoulder and left leg (knee and ankle!). I had had a ride as a passenger in a Mk2 CVT and didn't like the experience.

I had seriously considered going for a 30kwh Nissan Leaf - I've test driven one and they are a delight to drive, especially in an urban environment but there are issues with the charging network and also, after I had consulted my son in law (an electrician) there were going to be some issues with installing a home charger especially trip hazards. What clinched it for me was seeing the new Nissan Leaf at our local dealers. I decided then and there that this was the EV I wanted but not at £25,000 (give or take).

Test drove a Yaris hybrid - too small.

So back to the Jazz. Well I love having an automatic. My driving is mainly urban and the constant stop start in a manual was getting wearing. I am amazed at how much easier parking is an automatic with the creep facility. On the motorway, once up to cruising speed, very relaxed indeed. Less than 2,000 revs at 70 and, round town, once you've reached 30, you are basically just ticking over.

In earlier posts I referred to droning. I'll repeat that, the car drones and this is especially noticeable when accelerating from rest or if you have to floor the accelerator to join a motorway. In short, in these situations it's noisy and there is no getting away from that.

But for all the other benefits I can live with this.

Jocko

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Re: Transition for manual to CVT - initial thoughts.
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2018, 10:53:04 AM »
Glad you like it. I don't fancy the CVT, but any time I am stuck in creeping traffic I'd happily settle for one. Even the old DAF Variomatic would be better than the tap dancing you need to do in a manual.
A problem I find with my Jazz is, if I hold the clutch down for more than a few seconds, my foot seems to creep forward and the pedal seems to be in my instep. It is just an issue with seat height, pedal placement and leg length. Shorter legs or higher seat would probably alleviate it, but it is a nuisance.

Kenneve

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Re: Transition for manual to CVT - initial thoughts.
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2018, 12:49:27 PM »
I suspect that the people who don't fancy the CVT, have not actually driven one for any great distance.
I have been driving automatics since 2003, first with a Landrover Freelander and followed by 4 Jazz cars. The first was the I-shift, bl**dy terrible and it nearly put off autos for life. However i persevered and 3 CVTs later, I would not even consider going back to a manual gearbox.
Yes, there are issues with the MK3, mainly with the Atkinson cycle engine, but the gearbox is perfect and gives a very relaxed drive for 99% of the time.

culzean

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Re: Transition for manual to CVT - initial thoughts.
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2018, 01:47:56 PM »
I suspect that the people who don't fancy the CVT, have not actually driven one for any great distance.
I have been driving automatics since 2003, first with a Landrover Freelander and followed by 4 Jazz cars. The first was the I-shift, bl**dy terrible and it nearly put off autos for life. However i persevered and 3 CVTs later, I would not even consider going back to a manual gearbox.
Yes, there are issues with the MK3, mainly with the Atkinson cycle engine, but the gearbox is perfect and gives a very relaxed drive for 99% of the time.

I have driven CVT and automatic before for many years, but still love manual boxes - If I lived in a large town or city I may well have a CVT,  but I don't.   If like peteo48 I had some physical reason I needed one, no problem -but truth is I just enjoy swapping cogs (I like the 6 speed gearbox on my motorbike better though, if you get the revs right you don't need the clutch once moving  :-X )
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Hebden

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Re: Transition for manual to CVT - initial thoughts.
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2018, 02:18:39 PM »
Have to join in the praise for the automatic. Like Pete I am experimenting with creep when parking and doing 3 point turns. It has relieved all the left hip pain and muscle strain so that’s brilliant. Getting broadly similar mpg to the previous car. Satnav is a bit of a pain when it sends you via tiny country lanes in preference to motorways and main roads. Definitely need to find a way to check out a route before obediently following it. Fortunately the roads had been ploughed on Tuesday.

Jocko

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Re: Transition for manual to CVT - initial thoughts.
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2018, 03:05:23 PM »
Sounds like your Sat Nav could be programmed for shortest route rather than fastest route. Check your settings.

culzean

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Re: Transition for manual to CVT - initial thoughts.
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2018, 03:55:27 PM »
Sounds like your Sat Nav could be programmed for shortest route rather than fastest route. Check your settings.

'Shortest route'  is real pain and will happily send you along goat tracks,  I always  use 'fastest route' with 'avoidances' programmed in (toll roads etc) but even then with discretion - if I don't like the look of a road when instructed to turn I will carry on.    I think the maps are in layers (hence different colour for different road types) and single track back roads are supposed to be de-restricted 60mph and the satnav does not seem to know the difference between those and a decent 'B' road.  my Garmin will let you put routes in,  were you can broadly tell it which way you want to go (need a paper map as well really) and it will take you through those points rather than just from A to B,  where B may be hundreds of miles away.  I always use 'track up' as well,  where you are always driving from bottom to top of the screen, I tried North up and it did my head in as I was sometimes driving across or down the screen - very disorientating.   I find '3D map'  easier as well.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Kenneve

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Re: Transition for manual to CVT - initial thoughts.
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2018, 04:52:59 PM »
Thinking on from what Peteo48 said about 'Drone', I was out this afternoon and covered around 50 miles, on various types of road, listening for what sort of noises I was hearing.

At 30 mph all I could hear was the heater fan on position 3 or above.
At 70 mph all I could hear was wind noise and maybe a bit of tyre noise as well, depending on road surface.
Accelerating onto a motorway at maybe 4000+ rpm, yes, you will hear the engine working, but to my mind this is not objectionable. I would submit in that circumstance, any car of this type will be the same, remember we are not driving a £30k limo, but a fairly upmarket 5 door hatchback.

Drone to me, is a noise akin to a worn wheel bearing, a constant hum/whine whose frequency may rise/fall with road speed.
If Peteo48 is concerned about 'Drone', then he should take the car back to the dealer, for examination and possible rectification. Hope this comment is helpful.

andruec

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Re: Transition for manual to CVT - initial thoughts.
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2018, 04:55:33 PM »
I think I'd agree with the 'drone' label under moderate acceleration (between 3k and 4k rpm). But I quite like it. It sounds purposeful but without sounding over eager. Just the engine 'getting the business done'. When you reach your target speed you lift off and the engine goes almost silent.

Dayjo

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Re: Transition for manual to CVT - initial thoughts.
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2018, 07:50:52 PM »
I can understand, drone.....

Today, I had a few hours with an EX Navi, courtesy car. Mk 3. 67 reg. 150 miles on clock.

Initial acceleration, needed the revs, at 2,000+. Sounding like a bag of marbles....
 When forward motion had been achieved. The revs then could drop to 1,500, to maintain sensible, town progress.

It needed a burst of revs, to overcome inertia. Then dropping back, when movement occurred. As though there was nil power below 2,000.

My 15 reg, Mk2. CVT, in the same circumstances. Will pull away, quietly, at 1,100rpm. Maintaining these revs, during town driving.

Frankly. I was a little disappointed, by this foible. :(
David.
Drive them 'til the roads wear out.......

andruec

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Re: Transition for manual to CVT - initial thoughts.
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2018, 08:12:48 PM »
My 15 reg, Mk2. CVT, in the same circumstances. Will pull away, quietly, at 1,100rpm. Maintaining these revs, during town driving.
Yeah, that's the Atkinson cycle. It is indeed lacking in power..however it's also burning less fuel. The trick is to get the engine above 2,000 when you want it to move. With the manual this is implicit in your gear selection but CVT owners need to give the accelerator a bit of a jab to encourage it. In my experience the latest version seemed a bit more happy to make the shift but it only took me a couple of months to work the trick out with mine. Now it rarely bothers me.

peteo48

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Re: Transition for manual to CVT - initial thoughts.
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2018, 10:32:11 PM »
The "drone" word is something I've picked up from several reviews of the CVT box as applied to the Jazz. I think it's an accurate description. I go right back to my plane spotting days at Ringway (now Manchester Airport) and it sounds exactly like the Vickers Viscount taking off (a turbo prop plane).

I can see why people don't like it - a lot of noise and very little action when you want to push on from rest. I think an enthusiastic driver would be driven mad by this aspect of the CVT box. I have been toying with S mode - still a lot of noise but more action.

But I can live with it. I don't need to accelerate quickly all that often. My wife thinks the car is noisy under acceleration and it is. This may be an issue with CVT boxes generally.

Skyrider

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Re: Transition for manual to CVT - initial thoughts.
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2018, 07:34:09 AM »
The "drone" and noise complainers need to manage their expectations, it is a supermini optimised for urban use, not a luxury autobahn stormer.

Jocko

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Re: Transition for manual to CVT - initial thoughts.
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2018, 07:37:56 AM »
The "drone" and noise complainers need to manage their expectations, it is a supermini optimised for urban use, not a luxury autobahn stormer.
They are comparing the Jazz CVT to the Jazz manual, not an "autobahn stormer".
As an aside, my brother thinks my Jazz is as quiet as his BMW 320d.

John Ratsey

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Re: Transition for manual to CVT - initial thoughts.
« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2018, 08:18:44 AM »
But I can live with it. I don't need to accelerate quickly all that often. My wife thinks the car is noisy under acceleration and it is. This may be an issue with CVT boxes generally.
The noise is more noticeable on the MK 3 Jazz as it's programmed to rev the engine above around 3,000 rpm when acceleration is needed as the Atkinson cycle mode (below around 3,000 rpm) delivers economy but less power.  I also found this feature annoying. Honda could have programmed the vehicle differently to accelerate while still in Atkinson cycle mode but then people would have complained about sluggish acceleration.

 My HR-V has a very similar engine without the Atkinson cycle mode and can smoothly accelerate with rpm slowly increasing as the speed increases. How does the Jazz Sport behave in this respect?
2022 HR-V Elegance, previously 2020 Jazz Crosstar

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