Author Topic: gearbox problem  (Read 695 times)

degzi

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gearbox problem
« on: January 10, 2018, 12:37:22 PM »
It sounds like my gearbox is starting the dreaded whining.
Only has the whining reversing sound in first and second atm.
I have just checked gearbox oil and the level is good. Would changing it make any difference.?
It looked just a little cloudy, not particularly dirty.

If not I have been recommended a place in Newcastle, but all he could remember it was near the airport. Any recommendations in Newcastle / Cumbria area.

degzi

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Re: gearbox problem
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2018, 01:07:02 PM »
Just to confirm is the oil 75w80

Jocko

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Re: gearbox problem
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2018, 06:22:17 PM »
My gearbox sounds like a troupe of monkeys. I am just living with it. Seemingly it just gets noisier, but never actually fails.

TG

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Re: gearbox problem
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2018, 05:25:42 PM »
Just to confirm is the oil 75w80
75w80 GL4 or Honda code MTF-3 or more general code MTF-94
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TG

RichardA

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Re: gearbox problem
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2018, 12:00:46 PM »
It sounds like my gearbox is starting the dreaded whining.
Only has the whining reversing sound in first and second atm.
I have just checked gearbox oil and the level is good. Would changing it make any difference.?
It looked just a little cloudy, not particularly dirty.

If not I have been recommended a place in Newcastle, but all he could remember it was near the airport. Any recommendations in Newcastle / Cumbria area.

I asked this in the noisy gearbox bearings common fault topic and was told that the oil is not related to the problem. My oil was overdue a change as per schedule (70k?), I asked a local independent to check the condition of the oil and he said it was OK.

My Jazz is 2007 and has covered 80k, gearbox quite as a mouse. I was under the impression this affected only early cars due a bearing design but I understand later Mk1s are prone.

culzean

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Re: gearbox problem
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2018, 12:19:53 PM »
I think the gearbox bearing in question receives thrust from helical cut gears (ironically the helical cut as opposed to straight cut gears purpose is to reduce gear noise ) which due to their design produces a force along the axis of the shaft as the angle on gear teeth try to push gears apart along their axis.   IMHO bearing is more likely to fail if car spends more time in lower gears,  as this is where maximum thrust happens during acceleration. My wifes GD Jazz was a 'local car' and got the noise about 80,000 miles,  my identical year GD was a 'commuter car' spending most of its time on 'A' and 60mph 'B'  roads in 4th and 5th gears and mine still had no noise when I traded it in at around 120,000 miles.

 Straight cut gears are stronger (but it is not the gears that fail,  just the bearing) but are noisy,  listen to transmission noise on BTCC cars or similar high performance cars (or in reverse on most cars) and that is the whining noise of straight cut gear teeth.

The main problem (and same with rear wheel bearing noise) is that car makers are using deep groove single row bearings instead of taper roller bearings,  whether this is cheapness or just desire for lower friction I know not,  but it does mean bearings under more stress and fail sooner than they should.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2018, 12:27:20 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Jocko

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Re: gearbox problem
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2018, 01:31:12 PM »
I can guarantee it affects 56 plate gearboxes.

Jem

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Re: gearbox problem
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2018, 12:24:35 PM »
I can guarantee it affects 56 plate gearboxes.

I can agree to that. My 56 gearbox needed the bearing done around 70-75k

JazzyB

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Re: gearbox problem
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2018, 04:54:22 PM »
It sounds like my gearbox is starting the dreaded whining.
Only has the whining reversing sound in first and second atm.
I have just checked gearbox oil and the level is good. Would changing it make any difference.?
It looked just a little cloudy, not particularly dirty.

If not I have been recommended a place in Newcastle, but all he could remember it was near the airport. Any recommendations in Newcastle / Cumbria area.

I asked this in the noisy gearbox bearings common fault topic and was told that the oil is not related to the problem. My oil was overdue a change as per schedule (70k?), I asked a local independent to check the condition of the oil and he said it was OK.

My Jazz is 2007 and has covered 80k, gearbox quite as a mouse. I was under the impression this affected only early cars due a bearing design but I understand later Mk1s are prone.

The issue was metal swarf not being removed from the gearbox when built therefore destroyed the bearings.

culzean

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Re: gearbox problem
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2018, 06:54:23 PM »
It sounds like my gearbox is starting the dreaded whining.
Only has the whining reversing sound in first and second atm.
I have just checked gearbox oil and the level is good. Would changing it make any difference.?
It looked just a little cloudy, not particularly dirty.

If not I have been recommended a place in Newcastle, but all he could remember it was near the airport. Any recommendations in Newcastle / Cumbria area.

I asked this in the noisy gearbox bearings common fault topic and was told that the oil is not related to the problem. My oil was overdue a change as per schedule (70k?), I asked a local independent to check the condition of the oil and he said it was OK.

My Jazz is 2007 and has covered 80k, gearbox quite as a mouse. I was under the impression this affected only early cars due a bearing design but I understand later Mk1s are prone.

The issue was metal swarf not being removed from the gearbox when built therefore destroyed the bearings.

But only one bearing is affected, I had my wife's gearbox fixed , my mate removed box and the bearing was replaced by specialist company,  he gave me the old bearing it spun OK with very little noise in fresh air with no load on it.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Jocko

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Re: gearbox problem
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2018, 07:29:18 PM »
The issue was metal swarf not being removed from the gearbox when built therefore destroyed the bearings.
Only one bearing fails, not by foreign material in the box but by a low quality specified bearing. This bearing was subsequently upgraded and the problem does not affect later gearboxes.

MartinJG

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Re: gearbox problem
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2018, 07:42:32 PM »
A few months ago I was talking to an 'experienced' Honda tech about the bearings issue. He reckoned it was worth fixing as long as they did a decent job and the price was OK simply because the Jazz is so reliable. I asked him why such a fault could occur when the Japs are so fastidious on details. He reckoned it was a combination of things not least that they insisted on using their own manufacturers who somehow slipped though the quality control net. He had worked for Mitsubishi before Honda and they had similar problems. Odd. He reckoned they just had problems with ball bearings around that time.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2018, 07:55:26 PM by MartinJG »

culzean

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Re: gearbox problem
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2018, 07:51:33 PM »

A few months ago I was talking to an 'experienced' Honda tech about the bearings issue. He reckoned it was worth fixing as long as they did a decent job and the price was OK simply because the Jazz is so reliable. I asked him why such a fault could occur when the Japs are so fastidious on details. He reckoned it was a combination of things not least that they insisted on using their own manufacturers who somehow slipped though the quality control net. He had worked for Mitsubishi before Honda and they had the similar problems. Odd. He reckoned they just had problems with ball bearings around that time.

When you think how many 1000's of parts go into a vehicle, which is a mass produced piece of kit it is amazing how reliable and trouble free cars are, some of them receive very little in the way of maintenance or TLC.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

TG

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Re: gearbox problem
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2018, 05:09:34 PM »
My old colleague has just spent two years designing/specifying/testing the drivetrain bearings for the new Skoda Kodiak, I had assumed it was about a week's work.  A good bit of East Midlands engineering.
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