Author Topic: The first signs of winter..  (Read 2590 times)

andruec

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The first signs of winter..
« on: October 25, 2017, 06:58:27 PM »
..my Jazz begins struggling to start. Here we go again  :(

Jocko

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Re: The first signs of winter..
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2017, 08:09:39 PM »
I take it it turns over okay, just difficult to start?

Skyrider

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Re: The first signs of winter..
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2017, 09:21:18 PM »
Have you been cold shunting? I am in Scotland and it isn't even cold here yet, not any snow even on the mountain tops and no frost where I am 100M above sea level.

https://justinpritchard.ca/honda-making-it-work-in-the-cold/
« Last Edit: October 25, 2017, 09:34:15 PM by Deeps »

culzean

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Re: The first signs of winter..
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2017, 10:03:30 PM »
Have you been cold shunting? I am in Scotland and it isn't even cold here yet, not any snow even on the mountain tops and no frost where I am 100M above sea level.

https://justinpritchard.ca/honda-making-it-work-in-the-cold/

In the very cold UK winter 1982/3 (got down to -28C in Shropshire) my Vauxhall would not start - turned over OK but no sign of starting. I had to warm the carb with a hairdryer before it would start - it was a Vauxhall mind you, I would have expected a Honda would have started under those circumstances.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Skyrider

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Re: The first signs of winter..
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2017, 10:29:16 PM »
In the 1970s I had a Datsun 160B, it was used for skiing and started in the coldest conditions I have skied in -25C, after having been parked all day. I do not forsee problems with my Jazz even if I go up to the Cairngorm or Glenshee car parks no matter how cold it is. My wife once suffered carburettor icing on a Fiat Uno returning from skiing on a particularly cold damp day.

If your Jazz can't handle our mild climate there is something wrong with it.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2017, 10:54:32 PM by Deeps »

Jocko

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Re: The first signs of winter..
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2017, 07:06:42 AM »
In the very cold UK winter 1982/3 (got down to -28C in Shropshire) my Vauxhall would not start - turned over OK but no sign of starting. I had to warm the carb with a hairdryer before it would start - it was a Vauxhall mind you, I would have expected a Honda would have started under those circumstances.
Carbs were a whole different matter from modern fuel injection. Thankfully, gone are the days when you had to juggle with the choke for the first mile or so after a cold winter start.
You used to be able to buy Ether based sprays, that you could fire into the air intake, to try and start a recalcitrant motor. Worst I ever had was a Mk1 Ford Consul.
For a Mk3 Jazz not to start I would be looking at the level and standard of servicing carried out on the vehicle. Particularly spark plugs.

andruec

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Re: The first signs of winter..
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2017, 08:36:21 AM »
I take it it turns over okay, just difficult to start?
Yeah. It's an old story. It turns over just fine and even fires quickly but then it idles very slowly (at around 300 rpm) for a couple of seconds before picking up to a more appropriate 1,500rpm. Occasionally it will fail to pick the revs up and just stall out. Very occasionally it will keep turning the engine over for a couple of seconds before spluttering and giving up.

On the second attempt it fires up immediately.

What's weird is that it hardly ever does it in the evening after work. It's almost always in the morning yet I keep the car in my garage overnight. The garage has an insulated electric shutter and the car shares the garage with my gas boiler. So in the depths of winter it will struggle to start in a garage at around 10 degrees but in the evening after sitting outside in drizzle and temperatures near freezing it will start just fine. It has also never done it (I don't think) when I've been visiting friends and family and the car has been parked outside overnight.

The only theory I have so far is condensation forming when I park it up in a garage. I do have a dehumidifier so once the pattern is established this year I might try and find somewhere I can leave that with it blowing into the engine bay to see if it makes a difference.

andruec

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Re: The first signs of winter..
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2017, 08:39:57 AM »
I've posted this link before. What the S2000 does in that video is what my Jazz is doing. Although I'm also sure there are plenty of things that S2000 does that my Jazz can't :)

Then for all the gory details (including a few other 'victims') there's also this thread.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2017, 09:13:05 AM by andruec »

Jocko

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Re: The first signs of winter..
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2017, 09:27:17 AM »
Read the bit you posted, last winter, about it running okay if you turn the ignition on and leave it a few seconds before starting. This sounds to me like a fuel issue. As if it starts on what fuel is in the fuel rail but then is momentarily starved for a few seconds before the fuel pressure builds up. Switching on for a few seconds before starting allows the fuel pump to prime the rail before you call for fuel into the injectors. Perhaps the fuel pump relay is sticky. It may be worth replacing the relay or, if possible, swap it with another.

culzean

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Re: The first signs of winter..
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2017, 09:44:28 AM »
Read the bit you posted, last winter, about it running okay if you turn the ignition on and leave it a few seconds before starting. This sounds to me like a fuel issue. As if it starts on what fuel is in the fuel rail but then is momentarily starved for a few seconds before the fuel pressure builds up. Switching on for a few seconds before starting allows the fuel pump to prime the rail before you call for fuel into the injectors. Perhaps the fuel pump relay is sticky. It may be worth replacing the relay or, if possible, swap it with another.

I always wait until the fuel gauge has moved to position before starting engine, nothing magic about it as it is not reading 'fuel pressure' - just seems like a reliable delay after ignition turned on to allow pump to run.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

madasafish

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Re: The first signs of winter..
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2017, 10:01:42 AM »
For a modern car not to start in cold weather, you have a choice of problems:
worn plugs
worn plug leads
failing battery
failure of temperature sensor so mixture is not enriched on cold start

And a decent auto electrician could solve it... not an average car mechanic..

andruec

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Re: The first signs of winter..
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2017, 10:59:57 AM »
Read the bit you posted, last winter, about it running okay if you turn the ignition on and leave it a few seconds before starting.
Yeah but later on I posted that it wasn't the solution. Also, if it was fuel system related it doesn't make sense that it miraculously works all summer long. It has to be something environmental :-/

Skyrider

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Re: The first signs of winter..
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2017, 02:16:07 PM »
Read the bit you posted, last winter, about it running okay if you turn the ignition on and leave it a few seconds before starting.
Yeah but later on I posted that it wasn't the solution. Also, if it was fuel system related it doesn't make sense that it miraculously works all summer long. It has to be something environmental :-/

Your Jazz must be faulty, the only signs of winter here are a few leaves on the ground.

JohnAlways

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Re: The first signs of winter..
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2017, 02:48:22 PM »
A wild card. Your boiler is in the garage, maybe there is a lot of CO2 from the boiler upsetting things. Yeah I know only 1 chance in a Billion :) but a very strange situation. Just as an extra thought, what happens if you leave the car outside overnight?

Jocko

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Re: The first signs of winter..
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2017, 02:52:06 PM »
It must be something to do with the heating. I keep my car garaged all the time but there is no boiler in the vicinity.

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