Author Topic: Clutch judder until car warms up  (Read 1158 times)

chrisjazz89

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Clutch judder until car warms up
« on: October 05, 2017, 06:04:24 PM »
I've been experiencing clutch judder ever since owning my jazz (coming up to 7 months). My partner also has exactly the same car and I can't get hers to do it and as such I'm not convinced this is 'normal'.

My car is covered by a 12 month Honda extended guarantee and they've had it in 3 times but can't find any problems with the clutch or flywheel. The first time they had it in they acknowledged there was a judder on the clutch and that this was not normal however when they dropped the gearbox and inspected 'all' transmission components they said everything is working as it should with no obvious signs of anything been worn out or in need of replacement.

The garage foreman went on to explain that unless they find a faulty part they can't replace anything despite if being under under the warranty. What I do find strange about this though is that they mistakenly handed me some paperwork that was for internal use only where they had already fully quoted up the replacement of the entire clutch assembly and flywheel plus labour which was knocking on for close to 800... they then apologised for handing me this and asked for it back...

The clutch judder happens only when the car is cold and will eventually disappear after 20-30 mins of solid driving. Once fully warmed up it is almost impossible to make the clutch judder - it will in fact stall before it will produce the judder.

However when it is cold it is very easy to get to reproduce judder - in fact pulling off from a stop with anything other than 2k rpm will produce quite a noticeable judder.

I've never had any car that does this neither petrol or diesel. I've read other threads that say it can be normal for a slight judder on first pull when cold but this doesn't seem the same as the clutch juddering until the car has been driven a good 20-30 minutes, whereby in which time I have probably carried out maybe 8-9 pull off's from a stopped position.

Just to clarify when I say 'cold' start I mean the engine is cold and not necessarily the outside temperature. I get the judder weather its warm, cold, rainy, dry - outside conditions don't really make much difference.

Any ideas?

Jocko

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Re: Clutch judder until car warms up
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2017, 06:32:02 PM »
I get the same. Once the engine warms up it is fine. I put it down more to the engine than the clutch. Be interested to see what others experience and what your final outcome is.

culzean

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Re: Clutch judder until car warms up
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2017, 06:46:58 PM »
I have had clutch judder on GD Jazz and my Civic, I cured both by giving the clutch 'a good warm up' - simply with handbrake on in 1st deliberately slip clutch with a few revs on, this will de-glaze the clutch and flywheel. You may have to do it a few times, but it worked for me.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

VicW

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Re: Clutch judder until car warms up
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2017, 07:35:32 PM »
I had a Ford Mondeo where clutch judder would occur now and again. The clutch deglazing technique mentioned by Culzean worked every time.

Vic.

chrisjazz89

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Re: Clutch judder until car warms up
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2017, 09:53:12 PM »
Should I do need to de-glaze a clutch that has just 45k miles on it?

Also would this of not been something Honda would of noticed when they apparently had the entire gearbox and clutch assembly in pieces?

Thanks for your replies

culzean

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Re: Clutch judder until car warms up
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2017, 09:19:47 AM »
Should I do need to de-glaze a clutch that has just 45k miles on it?

Also would this of not been something Honda would of noticed when they apparently had the entire gearbox and clutch assembly in pieces?

Thanks for your replies

I'm not saying clutch is proper glazed, but the procedure I described is so simple to do it has got to be worth a try. I did my Civic about 10k ago and not a trace of judder since (and trust me, the judder was pretty violent, I was worried about engine mounts) and as I said it has cured more than couple of cars for me. Juddering happens sometimes, and it is not always obvious by looking at clutch what is causing it,  but if Honda took the trouble to get everything apart it would not have cost them hardly anything (clutch at trade price) to replace clutch, especially with their labour prices of 80+ an hour.

I am very easy on clutches, never had to have one replaced despite (or because of maybe) doing high mileages on my cars. A few people I know (with zero mechanical sympathy) are guilty of 'riding' the clutch ( using it to keep car steady on an slope because they won't apply handbrake or find neutral) and you can sometimes smell burning :(
« Last Edit: October 06, 2017, 10:28:11 AM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

madasafish

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Re: Clutch judder until car warms up
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2017, 11:45:43 AM »
Our 2003 Toyota Yaris is like that. I put it down to condensation overnight on the flywheel causing slippage.# As the water is evaporated due to the heat from friction and engine warmth the problem goes away.

# A not very well known problem but I believe it does exist.

chrisjazz89

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Re: Clutch judder until car warms up
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2017, 01:53:05 PM »
Thanks for you replies - I had read about the condensation thing on the flywheel but mine will do it after only being stood a few hours on a red hot day even if it has already been driven that morning.

I guess I just find it really odd that my partners doesn't do it but mine does...

We both have the same car the only difference being is mine is an ES and her's is an EX, same year, make, model, mileage, service history.

I would of thought if the clutch plate was somehow glazed that if Honda had taken it apart and inspected it they would notice that is more shiny/slippy that it should be, should usually be coarse. But we are assuming that the main dealer is being 100% honest about the 'works' they have carried out. Unfortunately due to other issues the car has gone back for (e.g. the air con with 'no faults' yet required 700 in repairs eventually when they found the problem that they said it couldn't possibly be) I am somewhat suspicious of anything they tell me and have lost a lot of trust in them.

Jocko - have you tried de-glazing yours or is this something you just accept and live with? or has you tired it and it didn't cure the issue?

I certainly won't be trying de-glazing it myself as the car is still under warranty so I just let Honda deal with it. I've raised the clutch issue with them several times so if it claps out under warranty or even after I suspect I have good grounds to back and get it replaced as they have told me they've inspected it and all components are in good working order!



Jocko

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Re: Clutch judder until car warms up
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2017, 02:09:52 PM »
Jocko - have you tried de-glazing yours or is this something you just accept and live with? or has you tired it and it didn't cure the issue?
I just live with it. I have driven cars with a lot worse clutches! I don't like slipping the clutch any more than it has to. A clutch plate has a finite life and, on modern cars it is such a pig to change, so the last thing I want to do is having to replace it sooner than I might. Great in the old days when it was just a case of drop the prop shaft, drop the gearbox, change the clutch components, stick it back together again, job done in an hour. Not now it isn't.

Danno

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Re: Clutch judder until car warms up
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2017, 05:49:55 PM »
Like others have mentioned, slipping the clutch on purpose helped our GE judder a couple of years ago (prob 75000 miles at the time). I didn't think twice about it - wife told me it was happening, I agreed, pulled away in 2nd gear a couple of times with revs and been fine since. Very occasionally does it first use in deep winter mornings but no bother.

chrisjazz89

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Re: Clutch judder until car warms up
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2017, 07:22:03 PM »
Thanks for replies - I will see how I get on - like I say I guess it's just strange to accept this being normal when my other Jazz doesn't do it all no matter how hard I try haha!

MattJST

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Re: Clutch judder until car warms up
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2018, 03:00:54 PM »
Hi all,

Since my uncle gave me his Honda Jazz 1.4i-VTEC it had the judder. He said he'd never really noticed it, but coming from owning two other cars I was a bit duubious so took it to my local garage that works on Hondas. The mechanic said of the three Jaxx's he'd worked on, none had this judder - which he experienced whilst driving around with me to see what I was talking about! He couldn't fault anything other that finding a leak on the sealant around where the transmission fluid rests, so filled up the fluid properly again, but the judder continued.
Last night on on the way to work, I found a quiet spot on our industrial estate and did the clutch slip trick - it worked in as much as the judder (usually just two judders, no matter what gear I'm accelerating in), is barely there  :)

culzean

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Re: Clutch judder until car warms up
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2018, 04:46:44 PM »
I found a quiet spot on our industrial estate and did the clutch slip trick - it worked in as much as the judder (usually just two judders, no matter what gear I'm accelerating in), is barely there  :)

Yeah, I have always found the 'slipping the clutch' will cure judder pretty well.

Always worth a try, but if it does not you probably need a new clutch because pressure plate or springs are FUBAR.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2018, 04:48:24 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

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