Author Topic: Headlights  (Read 6576 times)

123Drive!

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Re: Headlights
« Reply #60 on: October 25, 2017, 11:47:58 PM »
I use Eurocarparts when they offer a discount.

Kenneve

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Re: Headlights
« Reply #61 on: December 21, 2017, 08:08:17 PM »
Whilst still mulling over whether I should take the plunge and buy some LED bulbs, I thought I would try and measure the output of  the various halogen bulbs that I have collected over the years.

I managed to find an App which would load onto my Ipad to create a photographic lightmeter. The idea was to try the various rated bulbs and measure the difference. I had in stock bulbs with Std, +120%, +130% and more recently +150% ratings, all of Halfords manufacture.

The results  turned out to be somewhat surprising, in that, whilst there was a difference between the Std bulb and the others, there was no real difference between the other 3 types. This was generally because the light 'hotspot' occurred in slightly different positions, making comparison difficult.

I maintain the the +150% bulb should effectively give 3 times the light of a Std bulb. I know there are others that dispute that logic and i would the question, what would a bulb claiming to give +50% extra give?
Again in my view 1/2 as much again as Std. and +100% twice a Std bulb. However I do accept that this procedure is not entirely scientific, but perhaps it's a bit more accurate than the Mk1 eyeball!!
Iv'e also read somewhere that there are variations between bulbs that are supposedly the same rating.

The net result of all this is, I decided to stay with the +130% bulb, as the 'Hotspot' on dipped beam, was a bit closer to the kerb, making it easier to see.

The only reason I have not yet changed to LED bulbs, is the concern regarding the legality of them for normal use and what the insurance view would be, should there be an incident in the future, maybe our insurance member might like to comment.

Jocko

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Re: Headlights
« Reply #62 on: December 21, 2017, 08:38:18 PM »
Light output is a square root function, so you have to produce 4 times the lumens to double the brightness. Add to that the fact that the eyes are not linear either and perceived light is not always what you think it is.
I worked in the optical industry for a number of years and it is amazing how "clear" a 50% transmitter (coated glass) is. Clear window glass lets through about 85%, double glazing even less, and triple glazing about 74%. And the merest hint of dirt on your headlamp lenses can half the measured light output!

Kenneve

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Re: Headlights
« Reply #63 on: December 22, 2017, 10:13:38 AM »
As I said just now, all of my bulbs of various rating, are made by Halfords.
I would welcome opinions as to whether bulbs by other makers are any better or worse than these and if better, then why?

culzean

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Re: Headlights
« Reply #64 on: December 22, 2017, 11:01:23 AM »
As I said just now, all of my bulbs of various rating, are made by Halfords.
I would welcome opinions as to whether bulbs by other makers are any better or worse than these and if better, then why?

I have used Halfords, Philips and Osram xx% brighter offerings mainly in the past ( I have LED bulbs now, much better than all of them).   Generally I found Philips to have best beam pattern, Osram to be ever-so slightly brighter but more scattered light and Halfords to be pretty OK, especially when on offer 2 for 1 or similar.   Due to mileage I used to cover (much of it in dark at each end of the day on twisty country  'B' roads) I used to replace higher output bulbs every year,  I found from experience I could get possibly 15 to 18 (max) months out of the higher output bulbs but didn't want the hassle of driving with one light out and maybe having to buy a cheap bulb as an emergency fix.  In the case of  Jazz GD I would rather replace the bulb on a nice sunny summers day on our drive than in snow or rain in the winter (who wouldn't).

The Philips chipped LED I have now are better than all of them, with brighter, whiter light and a more usable beam pattern that shines more on the nearside verge and helps when other vehicles approaching (when centre white line is of little use)  would not willingly go back to filament bulbs now (as a side effect I am hoping lower heat from LED keeps headlamp plastic from going cloudy).
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

John A

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Re: Headlights
« Reply #65 on: December 22, 2017, 11:44:25 AM »
The Philips chipped LED I have now are better than all of them, with brighter, whiter light and a more usable beam pattern that shines more on the nearside verge and helps when other vehicles approaching (when centre white line is of little use)  would not willingly go back to filament bulbs now (as a side effect I am hoping lower heat from LED keeps headlamp plastic from going cloudy).

Do the LED bulbs produce enough radiation / heat to keep the headlight lens free of ice / snow?

culzean

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Re: Headlights
« Reply #66 on: December 22, 2017, 11:54:01 AM »
Do the LED bulbs produce enough radiation / heat to keep the headlight lens free of ice / snow?

Jury still out on that one,  I drove in recent snow OK (while it was still snowing and lenses stayed clear),  but these days ( :D ) I do not get out and about anywhere nearly as early as I used to in winter so haven't really had to find out ( I tend to clear frost and snow off headlights manually anyway).

If we are due another frost I will set the alarm (if I can find it) to wake me up and try an experiment...

One effect of lower heat output is that salty mush in winter and summer insects do not get baked onto headlights.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2017, 12:06:41 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

TG

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Re: Headlights
« Reply #67 on: December 22, 2017, 12:09:07 PM »
Well there's a limit to the output of a bulb if it's road legal no matter what it's called. *

The spread and output is controlled by regulation so I would assume that they all aim to meet this standard rather than fall way beneath it.  I fitted a pair of Nightbreaker 130% this year and they are pretty much the same as the Honda originals which had started to deteriorate.  The cup behind the filament was slightly smaller which seemed to create a more intense line at the dipped cut off point when against a garage door but they don't seem to illuminate the road more or further.  The only difference was the Nightbreaker had a blue coating which may filter out some of the warmer tones from the output, although I can't see it on the road surface.  One reason for spending twice the price on these rather than a standard bulb from ECP was the potential short lifetime of a cheap bulb - the originals did 15 years.

Anyway - what's the 130% compared to and how?
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TG

* Dazzler extreme plus nitro 400% ultimate  vs.  Standard H4 bulb

culzean

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Re: Headlights
« Reply #68 on: December 22, 2017, 12:29:11 PM »
http://betterautomotivelighting.com/2017/02/20/the-difference-between-lux-and-lumen-what-is-brightness/

Useful article that shows the difference between lumens (bulb output) and lux (how well the light is used for illumination). 

If you look at GEN2 bulb with the square LED pattern, it should be obvious that it is never going to make a good beam pattern in a filament reflector because the light source is nowhere near the same shape as a filament,  look at the GEN3 bulb LED chips and beam pattern and you will see the LED chips are getting closer to the Philips Z-ES chips - and the beam pattern is really good.

If you look back to 'headlights' thread   https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=8738.0   there are some youtube videos on there (page 1) from 'headlight revolution' showing clear difference with various styles of LED bulb between 'lumens' and 'lux' and they found Philips chipped bulbs to give by far the most effective beam pattern (although their output in 'lumens' was far lower than some of the bulbs that had proper illegal beam patterns which claimed stupid lumen figures).  There are also pictures of my wifes Jazz GE headlights on the garage door ( I have attached PDF again) and  they make filament bulbs look very yellow indeed,  and the 'hotspot' is larger and more uniform in 'lux'..
« Last Edit: December 22, 2017, 12:43:51 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Kenneve

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Re: Headlights
« Reply #69 on: January 09, 2018, 11:59:45 AM »
In previous posts there has been the suggestion that insurance companies, may take a dim view of changing Jazz headlights to LED operation.

So, I contacted the agent for my insurance company (National Farmers Union) this morning, to check whether there would be any problem with changing my headlight bulbs, from the normal filament to LED types. The agent was initially not sure, so has checked with the underwriters.

She has just phoned back to say, the the insurance company does not need to know about this change.


Kenneve

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Re: Headlights
« Reply #70 on: January 20, 2018, 10:30:41 AM »
Have finally taken the plunge and purchased a pair of LED headlight together with the matching sidelights.

The initial installation went well although there did appear to be some surplus light radiating above the cut-off line, on dipped beam, particularly on the LH light. However a quick call to Duncan soon sorted it, he suggested that it was either poor location in the light unit or wrong setting of the adjustment on the bulb itself. The normal setting for RH drive is 8, but i found that this had moved, presumably during installation to around 9.5. The was quickly reset and all is now well.

So. for anyone fitting these lights, they are set to 8 as delivered, but just make sure that the locking grub screw is tight before installing.
I'm currently running with the in-car headlight adjuster set to 1 rather than 0 just to ensure that I don't offend anyone, so far so good and i am well pleased with their performance.

culzean

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Re: Headlights
« Reply #71 on: January 20, 2018, 01:34:33 PM »
Have finally taken the plunge and purchased a pair of LED headlight together with the matching sidelights.

The initial installation went well although there did appear to be some surplus light radiating above the cut-off line, on dipped beam, particularly on the LH light. However a quick call to Duncan soon sorted it, he suggested that it was either poor location in the light unit or wrong setting of the adjustment on the bulb itself. The normal setting for RH drive is 8, but i found that this had moved, presumably during installation to around 9.5. The was quickly reset and all is now well.

So. for anyone fitting these lights, they are set to 8 as delivered, but just make sure that the locking grub screw is tight before installing.
I'm currently running with the in-car headlight adjuster set to 1 rather than 0 just to ensure that I don't offend anyone, so far so good and i am well pleased with their performance.

Well done - don't think you will regret it - especially as you will not need to buy another headlight bulb and won't have the problem of a bulb blowing at a bad time.

After driving with them fitted for about 6 months now I would not be without them. Due to the extra light output and worrying about dazzle when I first had them I used to run Civic with headlamp adjuster on 1 as well just to make certain sure I was not dazzling drivers, recently I did actually physically adjust the dip beam (separate dip and main on Civic) down very slightly and moved the adjuster back to '0'.  On my wifes Jazz GE they have always been OK with headlamp adjuster set to '0' (apparently MOT tester should check beam with leveling adjuster on '0',  but don't know if they do).
« Last Edit: January 20, 2018, 05:37:00 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

culzean

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Re: Headlights
« Reply #72 on: January 23, 2018, 11:33:52 AM »
Just put Civic through MOT (with LED bulbs fitted),  passed OK but apparently new VOSA rules from March 2018 mean that any aftermarket LED headlight bulb fitted will be a fail.  This is even though the beam pattern is better and much better light output ?  I asked the MOT guy why and he said 'VOSA people don't drive cars they all ride around on pushbikes' - Oh well,  looks like putting cheap filament bulbs in for MOT next time, it is a pretty easy job anyway except on GD Jazz..

If you compare beam pattern and light on my wifes jazz (photos attached a few post up,  and beam and light on TG photos a few posts up it is like chalk and cheese) - I wonder if testers have been having problems with weird dazzling beam patterns on cheap LED bulbs and just tarred then all with the same brush, even the Philips ones.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2018, 11:40:17 AM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

TG

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Re: Headlights
« Reply #73 on: January 23, 2018, 12:23:40 PM »
.... but apparently new VOSA rules from March 2018 mean that any aftermarket LED headlight bulb fitted will be a fail. 
Can they be seen as LED through the lens?  As a tester can't move anything like the grommet on the back of the headlamp, I'd have thought it may be difficult to detect in daylight.  Aftermarket HID / Xenon often fail MOT because they don't have automatic levelling and washers, it seems this may also apply to some LED conversions. 

Although this is from a couple of years ago, it seems to be the relevant guidance note: http://www.partinfo.co.uk/files/MOT Changes - Lighting.pdf

"The Department for Transport considers that after-market systems should be required to meet the same safety standards as that applied in respect of these lamps at vehicle Type Approval. Therefore, in order to pass the MOT test, vehicles fitted with after-market HID systems would also need to be fitted with headlamp cleaning and self-levelling systems. ....

Headlamp washing and levelling systems are mandatory for all vehicles fitted with LED headlamp systems, ...."


Maybe the interpretation of 'LED headlamp system' has now been clarified further to include any LED bulb.
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TG

zzaj

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Re: Headlights
« Reply #74 on: January 23, 2018, 01:07:20 PM »
If you compare beam pattern and light on my wifes jazz (photos attached a few post up,  and beam and light on TG photos a few posts up it is like chalk and cheese) - I wonder if testers have been having problems with weird dazzling beam patterns on cheap LED bulbs and just tarred then all with the same brush, even the Philips ones.

It may be not to do with beam pattern or dazzle as such but residual glare from very white light. The light is very good  for the driver of the car but it is a pain to drive against a long line of cars emitting harsh (but not dazzling) white LED light.

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