Author Topic: So maybe something is wrong after all :(  (Read 11743 times)

madasafish

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Re: So maybe something is wrong after all :(
« Reply #45 on: January 07, 2017, 12:34:43 PM »
I wondered if by moving my car a couple of times on my drive today (effectively on full choke) it created a pool of petrol in the inlet manifold and "flooded" the engine.

That thought crossed my mind too. It used to happen with a Nissan Micra we had, and was a well known problem for that car, but hasn't happened to us with a Jazz so far. But I don't think I have ever moved the car twice.

very unlikely to happen with fuel injection

Err I beg to differ.

Had that problem with FI on a Rover 800 and Mercedes.

When cold, fuel injection is set to give a rich mixture.

OK if started once and left. But in cold weather and two starts within an hour or so, can "flood" the engine.

Solution: foot down on accelerator when starting...

culzean

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Re: So maybe something is wrong after all :(
« Reply #46 on: January 07, 2017, 01:47:49 PM »
Some fuel injection used to have just one injector serving all four cylinders, then others had an injector for each cylinder close to the cylinder, then again some cars had one for each cylinder and another extra one higher up the manifold which only operated on a cold engine to generally richen the mixture on start-up. Some early systems used to inject fuel all the time (like a carburettor does).  I find it hard to believe that  modern engine injection would squirt an excess of fuel, especially enough to wet the spark plug considering the number of sensors in the system - and the danger of getting fuel into the CAT  and the danger of an explosion.

One of the most common cause of flooding on carburettor engines was the good old accelerator pump which squirted half a cup of fuel in every time the accelerator was pushed down, this was supposed to help engine pick up quicker,  but it also helped it flood quicker as well.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2017, 03:07:55 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Skyrider

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Re: So maybe something is wrong after all :(
« Reply #47 on: January 07, 2017, 01:50:11 PM »
This is my first petrol powered car for decades, my last one had a carburetor and distributor. My recollection may be hazy but it acted like a flooded engine after a few cold starts and shutdowns seconds later as I moved the car several times. Yesterday was an exception, several separate deliveries into my garage, washing a filthy salt encrusted car, etc. Not the normal treatment of my car. The last time my car started poorly (in my garage) it had been moved from the drive, another cold short run of about 30 seconds, not normal treatment!
« Last Edit: January 07, 2017, 01:53:43 PM by Deeps »

andruec

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Re: So maybe something is wrong after all :(
« Reply #48 on: January 07, 2017, 03:01:06 PM »
Sounds like it might a different issue then.

The symptoms aren't quite the same either. Mine rarely requires a long turn over. It'll usually fire within half a second - it's just that it then idles at very low rpm for a second or so. Sometimes so low that it stalls out. Occasionally it has fired but then stalled within half a second of me pressing the button.

I have a couple of times had it turn and turn and turn for a couple of seconds before firing that's unusual.

Skyrider

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Re: So maybe something is wrong after all :(
« Reply #49 on: January 08, 2017, 12:45:47 PM »
While I accept my occasional poor starting is self inflicted, I like to know why it happens. My thoughts are as the Atkinson cycle returns air fuel mixture to the inlet manifold for part of the intake stroke you could have a super rich mixture which would condense on the cold manifold inner surface. This would give the engine flooded effect during repeated very short cold engine runs.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2017, 11:47:58 AM by Deeps »

Skyrider

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Re: So maybe something is wrong after all :(
« Reply #50 on: February 03, 2017, 07:54:17 AM »
Or is it self inflicted? Parked for a couple of hours in a cinema car park, reversed in so no auto engine stop. On starting the engine cranked but did not fire up, on releasing the key to the on position the engine continued to run on the starter motor until it fired after a few seconds. It was not cold or wet, just cool and damp.

andruec

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Re: So maybe something is wrong after all :(
« Reply #51 on: February 03, 2017, 04:49:17 PM »
I've gone back to just 'push and go' - no more 'push, wait for ignition, push to start' as that's just too annoying. So far it's always fired first time but is still starting at around 1,000 rpm before climbing to 1,500 rpm after half a second. I reckon as spring gets underway in a month or so it'll stop doing that. I think it will go back to an immediate idle at 1,500 rpm which I assume is what it's always supposed to do.

I mentioned it when the car went in for a service but they had nothing further to add.

But on the plus side RC4+latest App update is still working just fine for me so I'm officially declaring that problem 'fixed'.

FredS

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Re: So maybe something is wrong after all :(
« Reply #52 on: February 06, 2017, 01:56:57 PM »
I have had the symptoms you describe occur three or four times. It seemed to occur when doing short journey's (less than five miles) at night in bad weather (cold, frost rain etc.). The car starts as if it is running on two cylinders at low revs then runs as normal a moment or so later. I rang the service department of the dealer  who had  not come across this before and suggested I leave the car with them for a day or two to investigate. I decided not to take it to them and monitor the situation as it only happens on a random basis.
I have also noticed on one or two occasions when pushing the start button it took time with the ignition lights on before it turn over and started.
 I use the car with the lights and wipers on auto.
Hope this helps.

p.s. this is my first posting on joining today. 

FredS

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Re: So maybe something is wrong after all :(
« Reply #53 on: January 08, 2018, 10:33:28 PM »
I have just had the starting issue  described in the first paragraph of my last post above. It occurred after a 7 (5+2) mile journey and then left for 2 hours. I must have tempted fate as I said in a post  a few days ago I had not had any starting problems this winter.
I will mention this to the honda service department when it goes in on Thursday to have the folding mirror switch replaced.

Fred

mattsmith

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Re: So maybe something is wrong after all :(
« Reply #54 on: January 24, 2018, 09:07:32 AM »
Reading this post with interest.  I have had my new Jazz since July 2017.  Been on a training course in Manchester so not used my car much as got the tram.  I don't do a lot of miles anyway.  Last time it was driven was Thursday, then Friday evening next door told me my son had left the back window open. Pressed the brake pedal and the start button, put window up and then pressed button for off again.  Tuesday evening the car refused to start, same again this morning.  Several attempts the battery sound ok just no "spark" and "ignite" feeling going on.  I also have experienced the accelerator feeling unresponsive at times?  Not sure what to do now, going to ring the dealer I bought it off which is a good hour away, I was not happy with the local dealer because of them ordering the wrong colour and wanting to charge me a lot more than the price I eventually got off car-wow.  (I know sales and service are different).  Maybe I should just ring Honda Assist and get them out to it or try this method mentioned in this post of pressing the button without pressing the brake pedal?  My car has been parked outside the whole time, don't have a garage.  I'm very disappointed, been driving the new Jazz since 2003 and had lots of them, hope I havn't got a lemon!

ColinB

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Re: So maybe something is wrong after all :(
« Reply #55 on: January 24, 2018, 09:29:58 AM »
... Pressed the brake pedal and the start button, put window up and then pressed button for off again.  Tuesday evening the car refused to start, same again this morning.  Several attempts the battery sound ok just no "spark" and "ignite" feeling going on...
If you started the engine briefly to close the window, then immediately switched it off, you may have flooded it. Have a look at this post and subsequent comments for an explanation and how to overcome it:
https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=8930.msg48854#msg48854
I don't think this is a jazz-specific issue, I've had it with a previous car and the link in that thread talks about other brands.

mattsmith

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Re: So maybe something is wrong after all :(
« Reply #56 on: January 24, 2018, 10:37:01 AM »
My partner decided to ring the dealer in Wakefield, who said just ring Honda Assist, so expect them to get here in an hour's time.  Does feel like a waste of their time if it's just a flooded engine, will have to wait and see now. 

JazzandJag

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Re: So maybe something is wrong after all :(
« Reply #57 on: January 24, 2018, 11:08:43 AM »
Do bear in mind that to close a window or fold the mirrors etc you donít need to start the engine. Just press the start button twice without pressing the brake pedal which will switch on ignition without starting the engine. Press the button once more (without pressing brake pedal) to switch off the ignition.

mattsmith

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Re: So maybe something is wrong after all :(
« Reply #58 on: January 24, 2018, 11:20:08 AM »
Yes thanks should not have turned the engine completely on, wish I had not done that, but at least I've got my car manual out of the cupboard now, I did promise myself I was going to read it as soon as I got the car but that didn't happen.  Making me want to turn off the auto idle stop all this, if I figure out how to do it.

mattsmith

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Re: So maybe something is wrong after all :(
« Reply #59 on: January 24, 2018, 12:36:25 PM »
 :-[Yes it was a flooded engine, I will know next time  :-[

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