Author Topic: So maybe something is wrong after all :(  (Read 12344 times)

andruec

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Re: So maybe something is wrong after all :(
« Reply #30 on: December 09, 2016, 10:43:02 AM »
I've gone back to trying the 'triple button press'. Two presses without the brake pedal pressed down to switch on the ignition. Then wait for several seconds. Then start.

It still doesn't start immediately at 1,500 rpm but it's no longer so obviously starting slow and it's fractions of a second before it picks up to 1,500 rpm. Last night was slightly more interesting. Totally new behaviour.

I was expecting it to be a useful test because it was a warm, wet evening and similar conditions to the one and only time it's ever not started first time from the office car park. What it actually did was spend a couple of seconds spinning the starter motor before roaring into life at 1,500 rpm. It never normally runs the starter for more than half a second.

So I don't know what to make of that. Sadly without a time machine there's no way of knowing what it would have done if I'd started it as Honda intend. It's suggesting however that the problem isn't directly temperature related. I'd say it was related to absolute humidity (relative humidity conflicts with it being happier during summer).

Skyrider

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Re: So maybe something is wrong after all :(
« Reply #31 on: December 14, 2016, 05:39:01 PM »
My car has done another extended starter run before starting, once it fired it ran perfectly. I suspect operator error (me). Did I press the clutch pedal fully? ........Pass!
« Last Edit: December 14, 2016, 05:42:39 PM by Deeps »

andruec

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Re: So maybe something is wrong after all :(
« Reply #32 on: December 21, 2016, 10:20:45 AM »
I have been 'religiously' leaving the ignition on before starting for a while now. It does seem to be a 'fix' for the problem. I have to leave it on for quite a while though, well after the engine light goes off and the fuel pump stops running.

But if I leave it on the ignition for a dozen seconds it always fires up at the correct revs regardless of what the weather is doing.

I suppose all I can do is mention this at the next service. I might try a different dealership though. The one at Northampton isn't far from a golf course so that's something to do while I wait :)

Downsizer

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Re: So maybe something is wrong after all :(
« Reply #33 on: December 22, 2016, 05:48:28 PM »
I have been 'religiously' leaving the ignition on before starting for a while now. It does seem to be a 'fix' for the problem. I have to leave it on for quite a while though, well after the engine light goes off and the fuel pump stops running.
Perhaps allowing the fuel pump do whatever it does is the secret, suggesting some initial fuel supply problem.

John Ratsey

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Re: So maybe something is wrong after all :(
« Reply #34 on: December 22, 2016, 06:07:09 PM »
Perhaps allowing the fuel pump do whatever it does is the secret, suggesting some initial fuel supply problem.
Could there be a non-return valve which is leaking slightly and letting fuel drain back to the fuel tank, so the pump has to repressurise the system?

It might be prudent to explain the problem to the dealer in advance of the service in case they have to order some parts.

culzean

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Re: So maybe something is wrong after all :(
« Reply #35 on: December 22, 2016, 06:35:10 PM »
Perhaps allowing the fuel pump do whatever it does is the secret, suggesting some initial fuel supply problem.
Could there be a non-return valve which is leaking slightly and letting fuel drain back to the fuel tank, so the pump has to repressurise the system?

It might be prudent to explain the problem to the dealer in advance of the service in case they have to order some parts.

I always leave a few seconds after turning ignition key before I start anyway,  but I would think that fuel pump only stops once system is pressurised - and it can't add any extra pressure if it is not running. You can get weak pumps that are failing that need to run for a longer time, but then again once they stop you would think system is fully up to pressure.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Skyrider

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Re: So maybe something is wrong after all :(
« Reply #36 on: December 22, 2016, 07:51:39 PM »
I don't know how the jazz fuel system works but would expect the fuel pump to run continuously with a pressure relief valve on the fuel rail returning excess fuel to the tank. This ensures the fuel system can instantly supply adequate fuel for acceleration.

John Ratsey

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Re: So maybe something is wrong after all :(
« Reply #37 on: December 22, 2016, 08:43:28 PM »
My point is that sensibly there should be a non-return valve on the suction pipe to stop fuel running back through the pump when the pump isn't running. If this NRV does it's job properly there is fuel available for a quick start if the key is turned quickly. Slight leakage would mean that pressure would reduce over a period of hours (eg overnight) resulting in the need to wait a few seconds for the fuel pump to repressurise the system. There might also be another valve to relieve excess pressure which could also be the culprit.

I'm only guessing but if the problem is that the engine is hesitant to start after standing a few hours and this can be fixed by letting the ignition key wait a few seconds in position II before starting the engine then this evidence should be sufficient to enable the dealer to figure out what needs to be fixed. If the leak is slow it's not something they can test during the service.

Skyrider

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Re: So maybe something is wrong after all :(
« Reply #38 on: January 06, 2017, 06:25:38 PM »
My car has just been difficult to start. Three long starter runs before it fired up, and then reluctantly. My car has not been used today other than two shunts on my drive, the weather is 7C, damp and a little misty. Once started it ran perfectly.

andruec

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Re: So maybe something is wrong after all :(
« Reply #39 on: January 06, 2017, 07:04:03 PM »
My car has just been difficult to start. Three long starter runs before it fired up, and then reluctantly
Ouch! That's worse than anything I've experienced. Are you trying to become the forum champion?

 :o :D

Paulwhitt20

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Re: So maybe something is wrong after all :(
« Reply #40 on: January 06, 2017, 09:05:02 PM »
We had a similar experience on Wednesday. Did not want to start in the garage. Took a few goes to start. Felt like the battery was a bit flat or the petrol was not getting to the engine. Car had only been used that morning. Once started it ran fine and is fine today.  Strange.

Skyrider

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Re: So maybe something is wrong after all :(
« Reply #41 on: January 06, 2017, 10:01:39 PM »
I wondered if by moving my car a couple of times on my drive today (effectively on full choke) it created a pool of petrol in the inlet manifold and "flooded" the engine.

mikebore

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Re: So maybe something is wrong after all :(
« Reply #42 on: January 06, 2017, 10:14:40 PM »
I wondered if by moving my car a couple of times on my drive today (effectively on full choke) it created a pool of petrol in the inlet manifold and "flooded" the engine.

That thought crossed my mind too. It used to happen with a Nissan Micra we had, and was a well known problem for that car, but hasn't happened to us with a Jazz so far. But I don't think I have ever moved the car twice.

culzean

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Re: So maybe something is wrong after all :(
« Reply #43 on: January 07, 2017, 08:49:34 AM »
I wondered if by moving my car a couple of times on my drive today (effectively on full choke) it created a pool of petrol in the inlet manifold and "flooded" the engine.

That thought crossed my mind too. It used to happen with a Nissan Micra we had, and was a well known problem for that car, but hasn't happened to us with a Jazz so far. But I don't think I have ever moved the car twice.

very unlikely to happen with fuel injection
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

mikebore

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Re: So maybe something is wrong after all :(
« Reply #44 on: January 07, 2017, 08:51:25 AM »
I wondered if by moving my car a couple of times on my drive today (effectively on full choke) it created a pool of petrol in the inlet manifold and "flooded" the engine.

That thought crossed my mind too. It used to happen with a Nissan Micra we had, and was a well known problem for that car, but hasn't happened to us with a Jazz so far. But I don't think I have ever moved the car twice.

very unlikely to happen with fuel injection

Micra had fuel injection.

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