Author Topic: Tyres! Winter or All Season?  (Read 5928 times)

Defender

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 233
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: 2011 1.4 EX CVT
Tyres! Winter or All Season?
« on: October 06, 2016, 04:55:43 PM »
Yes, sorry but I'm start a tyre topic, so flame away!
As autumn is well and truley with us, I know this as my thumbs go cold riding into work the other morning, I started to think about when to swap the wheels over to the winter set?
I do more miles on the winters than the summers, I commute by motorcyle as much as I can for various reasons, my winter tyres will last at least another winter or two.
However, I will need two new summer tyres soon, so do I buy all season tyres and accept the compromise over dedicated summer and winter tyres, but not have to worry about when to change them?::)
2011 1.4 EX CVT in Metalic Mushroom (Urban Titanium).

peteo48

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 901
  • Country: gb
  • I have entered the Jazz Age
  • Fuel economy:
  • My Honda: 2017 Honda Jazz 1.3 SE CVT Tinted Silver
Re: Tyres! Winter or All Season?
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2016, 05:22:13 PM »
I tend to think that any decision like this depends on circumstances. I don't go for winter tyres for the following reasons;

1) Although I live in the North, the area I live rarely gets extreme weather.

2) I'm retired so getting to work is not an issue. On top of that my annual mileage is 3,000 max.

3) I can use other forms of transport if I don't fancy the drive and our kids both live relatively close to us.

For these reasons I consider winter tyres to be a waste of money. However, prior to moving back to our present location (Warrington) we were living in Glossop. The weather much harsher there, lots of hills even on our housing estate and our kids were over 35 miles away. I was seriously considering getting winter tyres although all weather tyres (Michelin Cross Climates?) might have been the ideal compromise as our annual mileage was still only 5,000 or so.

I think if I was commuting and lived in an area with a harsh climate, I'd go for winter tyres. It all depends on the individual circs.

Ocky

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 49
  • Country: england
  • My Honda: Honda 1.4EX Manual 2009
Re: Tyres! Winter or All Season?
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2016, 07:31:48 PM »
I'm in agreement with Pete048.

With a front wheel drive car, not doing excessive mileage and not living in a remote area I don't see the need.

jazzway

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 295
  • Country: nl
  • Fuel economy:
  • My Honda: 2010 1.4 iShift Elegance Storm Silver GG3 L13Z2 3rd gen.
Re: Tyres! Winter or All Season?
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2016, 12:45:24 AM »
A few weeks ago i've bought a good used set steel wheels with winter tyres (Michelin Alpin) from the Honda dealer. Before that i was like you thinking about winter tyres- or all seasons. But with 2 new (April) Michelin ES front tyres i decided to go for the winter wheels. Although last winter was no winter ;) i have seen lots of snow here in the south east of the Netherlands, which is also the only part of NL with hills, haha. We drive about 10.000 km a year.
Nice thing about changing wheels is that i can give the summer alloys a good clean when off. ;)

Defender

  • Topic Starter
  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 233
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: 2011 1.4 EX CVT
Re: Tyres! Winter or All Season?
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2016, 12:12:15 PM »
Thanks for the veiws so far, I will be sticking with changing over to winter tyres sometime next month, but when I refit the summer set next year I will be reviewing the tyres again, even if the tyres do need changing I wont do that until next year when they're due to go back on the car, 4 months just sitting on the rims doesn't seem very wise.
I use the change over to check the condition of the wheels, tyres, suspension and brakes, so from that point of view it's no bad thing to be doing?
2011 1.4 EX CVT in Metalic Mushroom (Urban Titanium).

culzean

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3561
  • Country: england
Re: Tyres! Winter or All Season?
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2016, 04:39:35 PM »
Winter tyres are better in snow and also mud than summer tyres, also stickier on cold road surface.  Use steel  wheels in winter as well, when wheel rim is more likely to get up close and personal with the kerb.   My wifes Jazz and My Civic both have WR D3 Nokian tyres on steels for winter - mainly because the steep and twisty road out of our housing estate - which never gets gritted at all.   They are a very quiet tyre and give you great confidence on snow and heavily frosted roads.

Like others I use the wheel changeover to check general state of brake pads etc.  and spray a bit of underseal or anti-fling chain lube onto bits that look like they need it (chain lube dries really sticky and clings to surfaces).

I have no doubt that all-season tyres are OK in UK conditions,  but your alloys take a beating in winter.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Rory

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 401
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: 2009 1.4 EX Manual - gone to a family member. Still look after it, and a 2014 EX driven by daughter.
Re: Tyres! Winter or All Season?
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2016, 09:20:06 PM »
The original Dunlop SP2030 on our 2009 Jazz worked just fine in the bad 2009 and 10 winters but they were worn out by aroudn 16000 miles, so I guess that's a sign they are very soft.

Replaced them with winter Michelin Alpin tyres and ran them year round.  They worked fine in summer but I think we had one day of snow in the years after they were fitted. The Alpins were on track to last about 2x the mileage of the SP2030's.

auntyneddy

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 942
  • Country: england
  • My Honda: 2010 1.4i- VTEC I shift
Re: Tyres! Winter or All Season?
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2016, 10:38:06 AM »
Living in the South West of the country snow is but an occasional thing. Having said that in 1969, my Father in Law who was born on the prairie land of Alberta in Canada had not seen snow like it since leaving Canada. Whilst this seems like digression it just shows how unpredictable our weather is.  I think it was three years ago,certainly pre Jazz, our Rover with it's V6 lump was fitted with an auto box. I am sure it had four modes. Auto/manual/sport and SNOW. This stopped 1st from being engaged and changed into a higher gear at lower revs. I watched cars and light vans making a fist of about 2 inches of snow on a slight slope. Thinking I would be in trouble, I just engaged the snow mode and the old girl just sailed up the slope.
So the question of winter tyres must surely be a personal thing with locality being a factor. I have not driven the Jazz in snow cos we ain't had none YET. But I will just use the manual side of the Ishift and not use 1st gear with a feather touch. So with all the gee gaws manufacturers are fitting to cars, could something like the snow mode be considered or is it like everything else, big business wants it's share so the tyre companies stop the car manufacturers.  Clearly if you life in the North or Scotland snow tyres would be an asset.

culzean

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3561
  • Country: england
Re: Tyres! Winter or All Season?
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2016, 11:12:35 AM »
With just the tyres touching the surface there is only so much you can do with using a higher gear and limiting the revs, there is no magic bullet that can magically give the tyres extra grip (although there is an aerosol spray for tyres that will give them extra grip for a limited time) - just good practice can make the most of any existing grip.   Those smug people in 4WD fitted with summer tyres do not realise their snow performance is no better than a FWD car with summers (the extra weight of a 4WD certainly doesn't help).  A FWD fitted with winters will get most places a 4WD will (ground clearance permitting).  This was bought home to me by my neighbour in her RAV4, who has just a little more slope on her drive than I do,  there is no way she could get up her drive (and bimbo was too lazy to clear any snow),  but I could get off our drive in Jazz with summers (which to be fair with the narrower 15"  tyres ain't too bad on snow).  And don't forget you also have to be able to brake on snow - and winter tyres will stop your car a lot quicker than summers (braking is another area 4WD will be worse due to extra weight).

I always hope for a bit of snow,  its when people in normal cars can get their own back on RWD  BMW cars - they can't even get moving let alone tailgate you and overtake in dangerous places  :-X

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/66692/winter-tyres-4x4-grip-test-video
« Last Edit: October 09, 2016, 02:46:21 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

auntyneddy

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 942
  • Country: england
  • My Honda: 2010 1.4i- VTEC I shift
Re: Tyres! Winter or All Season?
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2016, 10:04:00 AM »
One of the biggest problems when driving in snow, as Culzean says, is the amount of tyre in contact with the surface. This limiting factor is compounded by the people that clearly do not have a clue. You see them time after time whether it's 4WD, rear wheel drive or even front wheel drive, sitting on a patch of snow, revving their engines with wheels spinning like the clappers, polishing what starts as snow and quickly turns to a nice patch of compacted snow/ ice. Not only do they get nowhere fast but make it dangerous for those that try and drive properly.
There are times of course when there is no way that a vehicle can move nor even pedestrians when snow has melted and then turned to ice. Or rain has frozen. You see plenty of examples on the TV in the 'comedy' clips.
I am mindful of an accident and a colleague attending , despite his training went out with the Land Rover and stopped on a hill which was sheet ice. The Landrover did have a very efficient  handbrake but this did not stop the vehicle sliding down the hill he had stopped on. Hadn't even turned the front wheels into the gutter. BUT at the end of the day, given such severe conditions even winter tyres won't cope.
Once again it comes back to the amount of tread on a tyre, which in very heavy rain is very important as a skinny tyre won't clear the surface water with aquaplaning the outcome whether or not it's summer or winter tyres.

Defender

  • Topic Starter
  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 233
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: 2011 1.4 EX CVT
Re: Tyres! Winter or All Season?
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2016, 06:50:46 PM »
Traction is the all important factor for tyres, people commonly mistake the winter or cold weather tyres we have here in the UK with the ones used in Scandinavia which are spiked and have a very open tread more like rally gravel tyres, also referred as Hakka tyres. Ok
My 4x4 has All Terrain tyres with a Mud & Snow ratting, I can attest to the effectiveness of the Hill Decent Control on a compacted snow and ice, it works so well I got bored desending a long hill and sped up and then let the HDC slow it back down again which it did with ease.
The more recent versions incorporated into the terrain response system or similar are even better, but the original is good enough for me.
2011 1.4 EX CVT in Metalic Mushroom (Urban Titanium).

peteo48

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 901
  • Country: gb
  • I have entered the Jazz Age
  • Fuel economy:
  • My Honda: 2017 Honda Jazz 1.3 SE CVT Tinted Silver
Re: Tyres! Winter or All Season?
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2016, 09:27:03 PM »
Those smug people in 4WD fitted with summer tyres do not realise their snow performance is no better than a FWD car with summers (the extra weight of a 4WD certainly doesn't help).  A FWD fitted with winters will get most places a 4WD will (ground clearance permitting).  This was bought home to me by my neighbour in her RAV4, who has just a little more slope on her drive than I do,  there is no way she could get up her drive (and bimbo was too lazy to clear any snow),  but I could get off our drive in Jazz with summers (which to be fair with the narrower 15"  tyres ain't too bad on snow).  And don't forget you also have to be able to brake on snow - and winter tyres will stop your car a lot quicker than summers (braking is another area 4WD will be worse due to extra weight).

I always hope for a bit of snow,  its when people in normal cars can get their own back on RWD  BMW cars - they can't even get moving let alone tailgate you and overtake in dangerous places  :-X

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/66692/winter-tyres-4x4-grip-test-video

There's definitely something in the skinny tyre thing. Back in 2010, when we were still in Glossop, there was a particularly bad winter. One of neighbours had no trouble at all getting out of our close and he used his wife's 10 year old Polo with narrow tyres. All the other cars, including my Civic, were stranded.

auntyneddy

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 942
  • Country: england
  • My Honda: 2010 1.4i- VTEC I shift
Re: Tyres! Winter or All Season?
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2016, 12:15:10 PM »
My reference to skinny tyres was lacking in tread. It is possibly a localised expression.   Clearly a thin tyre ( narrow cross section) would to a certain  extent cut into the snow and obtain more traction.

VicW

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 924
  • Country: england
  • My Honda: 11 Plate Jazz 1.4 EX CVT
Re: Tyres! Winter or All Season?
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2016, 02:23:20 PM »
Snow tyres on rally cars are noticeably more narrow than their gravel ones.

Vic.

culzean

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3561
  • Country: england
Re: Tyres! Winter or All Season?
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2016, 11:57:43 AM »
Another thing to throw into the equation is that with much less open area on a steel wheel compared to alloys (especially with good plastic trims) they protect the discs and brakes better from winter road spray and salt gunge.   Also a steel rim may bend when hitting a kerb but still not leak,  but an alloy one may get cracked and lose air,  Also more pothole in winter,  so get taller tyre with smaller rim to give everything an easier ride. The winter salt can give alloys a hard time.

Steel rims are so easy to paint as well,  some great paints like Hammerite etc. which cling well and are very resistant to rusting.  Just wash them down with plain water before you put them away for summer to get salt off and they will hardly rust anyway.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Tags:
 

anything
Back to top