Fixed or Variable Servicing?

[guest1521]

/quote]
Interesting to see comments from people who have had their car serviced huge numbers of times - I would lay odds that they don't get serviced if they come back to dealer within a few thousand miles of the last service and all the dealer does is reset the service indicator.

It's an interesting thought. Anyone in this servicing situation could check the appearance of the oil on the dipstick after service and see if it's clean/clear. Although if it's unduly low miles since last service it's (arguably) harsh to expect it changed when it is a cost the dealer has to absorb as a consequence of it being under a prepaid servicing plan such as Honda Happiness

Customer's wasted time and hassle bringing the car in might be a fair issue, though.

My Honda dealer should know that I ALWAYS check for clean oil on the dipstick... I also look for a pristine, clean, new looking oil filter housing. Air filter element, too. After every 'A' service. In general I like to check, as far as convenient, that everything was done as billed.

I know someone who went further than that. He used to put a little paintmark on his sparkplugs matching to the spot where they met the engine's head and his servicing garage was found out. Brand new plugs charged for, but not changed! They'd even shown him his supposed 'old' plugs, too. (Of course, our Jazz plugs are too inaccessible to easily mark.) He did similar with one nut on each wheel as a rough check for 'wheel off' for brake assembly strip, clean and lube, too.

[guest1521]

If you have the SvRS switched off , does that count as a modification of the standard model? Should you advise your car insurer? If you don’t tell the insurer, and you make a claim, will they be able to wriggle out it?

Is it really a 'modification' as an insurance company would define it? And so, would you be required to inform an insurer, legally speaking? And how would your insurance company ever get to know... if you didn't tell them?

To illustrate, would an insurance company care to know if you have switched your aircon to 'off' permanently because it's broken and so no longer works? IMO I don't think switching the SvRS 'off' would present any sort of insurance problem... but I could well stand to be corrected.

Just wondering...

[guest2889]

I’d say that an aircon unit, whether on or off, can have no detrimental effect on the mechanical operation of a car, whereas I suppose the SvRS  constantly assesses the condition of the oil,  oil filter, brakes, etc., in order to prompt remedial action to maintain the car’s operational efficiency. Like you, I don’t know what an insurer’s attitude would be but I’m cynical enough to believe that an insurance company’s first (and perhaps only) consideration is to look after itself!

[guest1521]

Surely 'switched off' SVRS simply relegates Jazz to the vast majority of cars that rely on manufacturers' specified service change intervals? These intervals being somewhat arbitrary because, really, they should vary according to motoring/oil conditions - hence the idea of SVRS.

I'd bet whether oil change intervals are followed or not, a lot of cars - possibly the vast majority - suffer efficiency and mechanical deterioration because the change should have been sooner. Same with brakes servicing.

Further... some motorists extend if not entirely overlook oil and filter changes altogether - such departure being (arguably) a 'modification' of the manufacturer's specification. And too many such motorists possibly rely (not ideally) on MOT to pick up any braking deficiency.

For those reasons alone I don't think an insurance company would have the slightest success against a Jazz owner whose SVRS had been switched off. It wouldn't stand up logically... or legally, I suspect.

I take your point re a/c. However, from an insurance point of view I was thinking about effect broken a/c has on resale and hence value of a car. Also... from a SAFETY viewpoint, functioning a/c enhances driver comfort and awareness. Yet insurance companies don't require they be informed if a/c is broken. My point about a/c should have been better explained. 

Nonetheless you've helped me think through my logic. And IMO switching SVRS off would be of no concern or interest to an insurance company. Nor should it be. No problem presented for Jazz owners.

[Top Down]

Honda themselves switch it off if you prefer the 12,500 mile or once a year servicing routine.

[guest2898]

I was lucky when i bought my 09 ES in march this year, it had already been disabled from new (ex demonstrator) so that suits me fine! my sister in laws EX has it on and (2010) and i think its been in 3 times already and its only done about 15k!.... i will be taking mine to a local garage to have it serviced using genuine honda parts... 

[guest2889]

' No problem for Jazz owners'

You're probably right. I hope so!

But perhaps an insurer will say that the SvRS is installed as a standard part of the Jazz in order to aid and prompt the driver to instigate necessary maintenance of the vehicle in response to intelligence gathered by the device.

My car insurance schedule (and I guess everyone else’s) includes all manner of ‘threats’ about the need to disclose full information upon which the insurance certificate and the cover provided is based, and ends up with ‘It’s an offence under the Road Traffic Act to withhold information or make false statements when obtaining a certificate of motor insurance.'

But you may well be right. There’s nothing to worry about. Is there…?

[guest1370]

Here is the official reply I have received from the Honda (UK) technical team re this topic:

Honda Service Reminder System (SvRS ).



The Honda SvRS system has two functions one of which is to monitor oil
condition within the engine. This function is the only variable part of the
system.  The way the system decides on the oil change period is based on
algorithms which are calculated on driving conditions and driving style.
This means a driver who mostly drives in cities , towns or short distances
will require more frequent oil changes than a driver who drives on
motorways and longer distances for example.  The remaining part of the SvRS
system purely works on dates or actual mileage covered. For example when
approaching 12.500 mile or 12 months old the SvRS system will highlight the
need  B+ service (annual check).  Depending on the driving conditions the
oil change ( "A" service oil change)may not be highlighted at the same time
it could be before or after  this period.as described above.


If a customer is unhappy with the function of the SvRS system and would
prefer to revert to a once a year or 12.500 service schedule (which ever
comes first) the SvRS system can be switched off . This will not affect the
warranty in any way it simple returns the vehicle to standard servicing as
it has been on all Honda vehicles in the past.  Some customers may prefer
this as it will reduce the inconvenience of more than one trip a year in to
the dealership.  If the customer has a Honda service plan Honda(UK) will
cover all necessary oil changes as per the service plan in the agreement no
limit to how many oil changes as long as an A service is required
However if a customer wishes to have the system switched off. It will not
affect the warranty. As long as the 12.500 mile/ 12 month service schedule
is adhered to.  This can be confirmed by Honda Happiness help line
08448717742...


I was very interested to see the reply from mgdAmmanford #87 14 November, which stated that Honda will not honour their above policy under the Approved Used Car Service Plan if the SVRS has been activated at purchase. This just shows what this has been costing them for new car buyers' under the Honda Happiness scheme and that they have no intention to find a permanent solution to this problem.

I have found the Honda (UK) Customer Relations Team very unhelpful and have an official ongoing complaint registered with them since March 2010 with no resolution to date. I think the only way to resolve this is for Honda owners to group together and submit an official complaint that the SVRS system is 'not fit for purpose' under the consumer protection act. What are your feelings? Why are they and their dealerships recommending to owners to have the system turned off permanently if their is nothing inherently wrong with it?

[guest1521]

I was very interested to see the reply from mgdAmmanford #87 14 November, which stated that Honda will not honour their above policy under the Approved Used Car Service Plan if the SVRS has been activated at purchase. This just shows what this has been costing them for new car buyers' under the Honda Happiness scheme and that they have no intention to find a permanent solution to this problem.

If the second owner is unhappy with the 'A'/oil+filter servicing frequency, surely he can simply request the Honda dealer to switch it off and revert to the arbitrary 12,500 mile (max recommended) interval?

In your post honjazz, I also noted that the only 'variable' SVRS item is oil and filter. Brakes are therefore not monitored this way.

For this second owner, then, is there really any harm done at all by having it switched off? If so, what?

Apologies, however, if I am missing the point here...

On the other hand, if that second owner is using the car for, say, lots of 'hot running'... trips that are typically NOT cold running around town and NOT very short commutes, say... the SVRS will extend the 'A' service/oil+oil filter interval to as much as 18,500 miles.

At least that's what my dealer told me a year ago when I was considering having it switched off.

For that owner, SVRS is a good thing and he'll be happy to have it left on, surely.

As it is, after a 'teething' glitch necessitating dialogue with the dealer, I've left mine 'on' and so far (20,650 miles) it is performing pretty much as the dealer described and NOW I am pleased with it. (As pleased as I am with so much of this car.)

The SVRS has yet to signal for a second 'A' service/second oil change. My motoring over the last year has involved barely any short runs compared to the year before and so I'll be very interested to see how many miles before this (second) oil change is signalled by the SVRS.

However as it is the only car in the household my motoring is very 'mixed' with most miles being trips and motorway. So maybe SVRS is ideal for me at least -  once the dealer sorted it... and once I fully understood it (I hope.)
 

[guest1370]

I have received a reply from the Honda (UK) Customer Relations Technical Adviser re problems raised with variable servicing and excessive oil changes indicated by the system. He forwarded to me a detailed response from Honda's R&D department but unfortunately to date I haven't received permission to quote it on the forum as it is subject to their confidentiality terms.
I would be very interested to get an idea from Jazz owners' how many are using Variable Servicing compared with Standard Servicing Schedule (12 months/12,500 miles), with the variable servicing either switched off at PDI or subsequently, by request from the owner. In particular, owners' who experienced problems with the display showing an 'A' Service due, even though a previous oil and filter change was carried out in less than 12 months/12,500 miles and where the dealer advised that the recommendation from Honda was to deactivate the variable servicing system and revert to standard annual servicing.
Once I get permission back from Honda I will publish their report here.
Many thanks

[guest2898]

Well, my 2009 ES does not have it switched on, it was a honda dealer car too! i will be servicing it once a year as i have done with many other hondas i have owned over the years, as i dont do that many miles these days (8k a year) only when the engine has gone past the 100k mark i would consider changing the oil twice a year with my current annual mileage... my sister in law has a 10 plate EX model and hers had 3 services within the first 18 months which is ridiculous as she does not do much more than i do mileage wise. Honda engines are designed to last, and i find the service reminders totally unjust and a waste of time, honda need to get rid of this system and go back to mileage/whatever comes first system. As the one thing i have always loved about the brand is that once the car comes out of warranty, you can always do D.I.Y servicing if you are planning on keeping the car, with no fancy tools needed or stuff to reset like on many manufacturers.... lets hope honda listen to what the owners require... they usually do!

[Top Down]

Just to put this in perspective:
Honda are not the only manufacturers to have a variable service system. I've had BMW's and VW's with this and just ignored them and did the regular annual servicing, which always took place at the same time as the MOT, getting the garage to reset the light at that point.

I don't know why people are getting so hung up on it. 

As I said before HONDA THEMSELVES SWITCH THIS OFF so I don't think the sky's going to fall on anyone who ignores it or requests the system be turned off (and for the third time - that includes Honda themselves!) whether they be the first, second or thirty-second owner.

[Rabiedmushroom]

I don't know why people are getting so hung up on it. 

I appreciate your comments, but if I'd had to pay separately for (now) my ELEVEN services (incl parts and labour) in the less than 3 years/58,000 miles, it would have cost me a £fortune. To put that in perspective, have you taken your GE in for 3 services since this topic was started on here - cus I have!! 

The variable system wouldn't have been designed and rolled out to production unless the manufacturer thought it would benefit the car. Its there to monitor and be used to get best long term performance and maintenance standards, not simply turned off as a quick fix. It is a problem that needs addressing.

And I'm really peeved at Honda. I've written to Lewis Tingle in October, chased up for a reply since, then phoned customer services earlier this week only for them to say he's been on paternal leave (surely someone else could have passed my query on to deal with). Its the only time Honda customer services have let me down. Its good to know someone else is looking into this, they'll be getting another call on Monday, I'm wound up now and my local dealership is similarly bemused.

[guest1370]

I am at present in email contact with Mr Richard Clissold, Honda (UK) Customer Technical Adviser
Richard.Clissold@honda-eu.com who my complaint was passed to by Mr Lewis Tingle, Team Leader, Customer Relations (Cars).
He has been very helpful and obtained a report on problems with the SVRS system from Honda's R&D department. I have asked him if I can post this on the forum and he is checking if this will be okay, as it is copywrite protected.
I feel that if anybody wants this information, which is not generally available and cannot be reproduced here, they should contact him via email.

[guest907]

With mixed round town (up to an hour travelling) and motorway journeys (200 miles each way) service reminder kept changing from A to B and back again then told me service required at 9,000 miles.

Went to 12mths/12.5K miles and reminder system switched off at first service. Will be much cheaper over my 2 years 50K miles.