Author Topic: Mk2 cvt verses mk3  (Read 5741 times)

Roddy0000

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Mk2 cvt verses mk3
« on: June 19, 2018, 09:46:03 PM »
Hi, I had a mk2 Jazz and now got mk3. It seems to me that the gear ratio is different to the mk2 and the mpg does not seem brilliant to me, about 43 on good runs at the moment but have been driving at 70, do you think that this will improve with more mileage.
What do people consider at what mileage on these engines are they considered as run in ?
  Many thanks. 
« Last Edit: June 19, 2018, 10:15:13 PM by Roddy0000 »

andruec

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Re: Mk2 cvt verses mk3
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2018, 10:07:12 PM »
It will improve a bit but, as noted in another thread, at 70mph it's unlikely you will see much improvement. At that speed the engine has to work quite hard to overcome drag and to work hard it has to burn fuel. Most efficiencies come from avoiding wasted fuel and at 70mph very little fuel is being wasted(*).

The mpg improvements of the Mk3 JAzz are mainly going to apply when you travel at or below 60 mph because that allows the engine to operate in the more efficient (but less powerful) Atkinson mode. Most people here have seen a slight improvement over the Mk2 (I see around a 2% improvement overall). So urban driving and single lane carriageways are where the most gains are likely.

(*)In a purely mechanical sense, at least. In a more practical sense the difference between 60 mph and 70 mph is such that on most journeys it's unlikely to save much time so it could be argued that choosing to travel at 70 mph is inherently wasteful ;)

mikebore

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Re: Mk2 cvt verses mk3
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2018, 10:44:17 PM »
Hi, I had a mk2 Jazz and now got mk3. It seems to me that the gear ratio is different to the mk2 and the mpg does not seem brilliant to me, about 43 on good runs at the moment but have been driving at 70, do you think that this will improve with more mileage.
What do people consider at what mileage on these engines are they considered as run in ?
  Many thanks.

I posted this info in the MPG thread recently:


My Mk2 CVT averaged 43.3 mpg over 25,761 miles of very mixed motoring in a 22 month period.

My Mk3 CVT has averaged 46.1 mpg over 28,383 miles of similar mixed motoring in a 24 month period.

The above two numbers are very comparable as our usage has not changed over the last four years.

All data by recording at pump and mileage, not onboard computer.

Jocko

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Re: Mk2 cvt verses mk3
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2018, 06:16:48 AM »
My Mk 1 Manual has averaged 53.8 mpg over 16714 miles and 24 months of mixed motoring, again, all data by recording at pump and mileage, not onboard computer. Wonder if that is down to the 1.2 engine?

ColinS

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Re: Mk2 cvt verses mk3
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2018, 07:33:17 AM »
My Mk3 MT has averaged 50.34 mpg over 31,200 miles of similar mixed motoring in a 27 month period.  Again all data by recording at pump and mileage, not onboard computer.

I do very little motorway driving but when I do, I tend to drive at 70mph and the fuel consumption is noticably more.

mikebore

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Re: Mk2 cvt verses mk3
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2018, 06:55:29 AM »
My Mk3 MT has averaged 50.34 mpg over 31,200 miles of similar mixed motoring in a 27 month period.  Again all data by recording at pump and mileage, not onboard computer.

I do very little motorway driving but when I do, I tend to drive at 70mph and the fuel consumption is noticably more.

Your 50.34 mpg is pretty consistent with my 46.1 mpg, as I do a lot of motorway, usually in the fast lane at whatever speed it is doing.

guest7675

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Re: Mk2 cvt verses mk3
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2018, 09:09:23 AM »
Does the 1.5 sport cvt have six or seven ratios as my old daihatsu yrv turbo cvt 1.3 had seven which seven was useful on motorways.

Jocko

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Re: Mk2 cvt verses mk3
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2018, 10:00:08 AM »
Does the 1.5 sport cvt have six or seven ratios
Remember, the CVT "Ratios" are only pretend. They are just there to please the motoring journalists. CVT is a Constantly Variable Transmission, with a mechanically seamless range, from High to Low. It could have 2 "steps" or 10. The mechanical side in the same.

Skyrider

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Re: Mk2 cvt verses mk3
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2018, 10:37:35 AM »
Mine has seven virtual steps, I actually used them to see if they worked. The car sorts out the best ratio far better than I can and I have driven HGVs, and have had advanced driver training ya de da de da. It is one case of the computer knows best!
« Last Edit: June 21, 2018, 11:30:24 AM by Skyrider »

Downsizer

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Re: Mk2 cvt verses mk3
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2018, 01:31:46 PM »
When accelerating in "D", I do not notice any steps.  It is possible to accelerate steadily with almost constant revs, with the cvt simply delivering the requested power.

Skyrider

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Re: Mk2 cvt verses mk3
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2018, 03:24:01 PM »
As I said, the computer knows best depending on what you do with your right foot. Tickle the accelerator and you get smooth acceleration, use power and it  will simulate a gear change or kickdown. In my post above I was referring to running through the seven computer generated ratios with the steering wheel paddles to check they worked. They do, but I doubt if I will use them much if at all, the CVT is easily controlled with your right foot.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2018, 03:30:12 PM by Skyrider »

guest4871

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Re: Mk2 cvt verses mk3
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2018, 04:26:07 PM »
As I said, the computer knows best depending on what you do with your right foot. Tickle the accelerator and you get smooth acceleration, use power and it  will simulate a gear change or kickdown. In my post above I was referring to running through the seven computer generated ratios with the steering wheel paddles to check they worked. They do, but I doubt if I will use them much if at all, the CVT is easily controlled with your right foot.

How do you decelerate with the CVT with your right foot alone?

andruec

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Re: Mk2 cvt verses mk3
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2018, 04:34:20 PM »
As I said, the computer knows best depending on what you do with your right foot. Tickle the accelerator and you get smooth acceleration, use power and it  will simulate a gear change or kickdown. In my post above I was referring to running through the seven computer generated ratios with the steering wheel paddles to check they worked. They do, but I doubt if I will use them much if at all, the CVT is easily controlled with your right foot.

How do you decelerate with the CVT with your right foot alone?
Lift off. You don't get as much deceleration as you would in a manual though unless you use the paddles. Even then there seem to be limits as to what the CVT will tolerate and it starts releasing then re-applying the braking as if trying to release pressure. In normal mode though I find that most of the time there's enough retardation to avoid using the brakes - even around town - but I have had to increase the gap to the vehicle in front and look a little further ahead.

The Mk1 was different from Mk2 and Mk3 because sometimes even in 'standard' mode the CVT would give quite reasonable retardation when you lifted off. It didn't do it very often though and I never managed to work out how to reliably trigger it.

But I think Skyrider just means that you can use your right foot to control the gear ratio which I suppose is correct. As a lowly 1.3 user I have to use my right foot sometimes to get the engine out of Atkinson mode. That's one thing that does cause a 'step' while accelerating. Possibly fixed in the face lifted 1.3 as I didn't notice it in February when I had a courtesy car.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2018, 04:38:25 PM by andruec »

Skyrider

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Re: Mk2 cvt verses mk3
« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2018, 05:05:43 PM »
That sounds much like my car except no Atkinson. There is a "step" if you are a bit enthusiastic with the right foot. Or even a couple if you   are accelerating hard.

Does anyone know if the MK2 has a torque converter or start clutch CVT?
« Last Edit: June 21, 2018, 05:13:20 PM by Skyrider »

JazzandJag

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Re: Mk2 cvt verses mk3
« Reply #14 on: June 21, 2018, 05:22:51 PM »
Torque converter

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