Author Topic: Jazz discs and pads  (Read 10949 times)

desthemoaner

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Re: Jazz discs and pads
« Reply #45 on: July 13, 2018, 07:34:14 PM »
All done, but embarrassingly, not by me.

I got all my tools out, laid them down by the car, took the wheel off and could I Hell remove the disc securing screws. I tried the impact driver but they refused to budge. Then I attacked them with a punch, but still couldn't shift them at all. Worse still, I left the heads of the screws in a pretty sorry state after bashing away at them for 15 minutes. And after all this build up I was SO looking forward to doing the job.

Anyhow, my next move was to call out a mobile mechanic whom I've used for years and ask him to have a crack.  He removed the wheel, put the business end of a Philips screwdriver in the head of the disc screw, hit it a few times with a hammer and lo and behold, out it came, along with its neighbour. Same result on the other wheel. Red faced, I walked away and left him to it.   :-[

Cost me a few quid, but the main casualty was my pride. Still, if I keep the car long enough I know the job will be a cinch next time round.

culzean

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Re: Jazz discs and pads
« Reply #46 on: July 13, 2018, 07:48:11 PM »
All done, but embarrassingly, not by me.

I got all my tools out, laid them down by the car, took the wheel off and could I Hell remove the disc securing screws. I tried the impact driver but they refused to budge. Then I attacked them with a punch, but still couldn't shift them at all. Worse still, I left the heads of the screws in a pretty sorry state after bashing away at them for 15 minutes. And after all this build up I was SO looking forward to doing the job.

Anyhow, my next move was to call out a mobile mechanic whom I've used for years and ask him to have a crack.  He removed the wheel, put the business end of a Philips screwdriver in the head of the disc screw, hit it a few times with a hammer and lo and behold, out it came, along with its neighbour. Same result on the other wheel. Red faced, I walked away and left him to it.   :-[

Cost me a few quid, but the main casualty was my pride. Still, if I keep the car long enough I know the job will be a cinch next time round.

I had a problem as well, but then I used impact driver to tighten the screw before reversing it to slacken it,  that is pretty much what your mechanic did. I only hand tighten the screws but countersink screws are notorious for locking themselves in due to large contact area of countersink. Now I put copper grease under head and on the thread. The screws are only there to stop disc falling off when caliper is removed, otherwise wheel nut hold the disc on.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

desthemoaner

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Re: Jazz discs and pads
« Reply #47 on: July 14, 2018, 09:48:11 AM »
I suppose I could have drilled the screws out as a last resort, but the main barrier to success was not being sure just how hard I could hit the tools without doing some damage. I guess that kind of assessment comes with experience, and  its never been necessary for me when doing discs and pads on previous cars to employ anything more than moderate force.

Of course, there are times when brute force doesn't cut the mustard. I once watched that same mobile mechanic using a lump hammer to bash seven bells out of a rear brake drum which had seized solid on a Mk1 Focus, and even he couldn't shift it with the kind of equipment he was able to carry in his van.

JazzyB

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Re: Jazz discs and pads
« Reply #48 on: July 14, 2018, 10:14:21 AM »
In extreme cases you have to resort to using an angle grinder!!

I have had first hand experience many years ago on a Ford Fiesta.......

culzean

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Re: Jazz discs and pads
« Reply #49 on: July 14, 2018, 10:28:45 AM »
I suppose I could have drilled the screws out as a last resort, but the main barrier to success was not being sure just how hard I could hit the tools without doing some damage. I guess that kind of assessment comes with experience, and  its never been necessary for me when doing discs and pads on previous cars to employ anything more than moderate force.

Of course, there are times when brute force doesn't cut the mustard. I once watched that same mobile mechanic using a lump hammer to bash seven bells out of a rear brake drum which had seized solid on a Mk1 Focus, and even he couldn't shift it with the kind of equipment he was able to carry in his van.

I use a four pound builders lump hammer with my impact driver, because you are driving the bit into screw and turning it at same time you can use a bit of force,  main thing is to make sure the bit is turning the correct direction when you hit the driver,  I found the best way is to put screwdriver bit into screw head and firmly turn body of driver , turn it both ways to check its movement and body will move relative to bit and click into position, the last time you turn it should be the way you want screw to turn (normally anticlockwise as you don't normally tighten right hand threads with the impact driver) and click body into detent   ( I find R and L markings a bit ambiguous).

I would happily drill the head off any seized disc  retainer screw and not put another screw back in.  With four M12 wheel bolts holding the disc on then a couple of little screws are hardly going to be needed.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2018, 11:54:12 AM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

madasafish

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Re: Jazz discs and pads
« Reply #50 on: July 14, 2018, 03:53:28 PM »

I would happily drill the head off any seized disc  retainer screw and not put another screw back in.  With four M12 wheel bolts holding the disc on then a couple of little screws are hardly going to be needed.

Did exactly that on our Peugeot 106 front disks and it happily motored for another 10 years like that.. I assume it is done for assembly production line purposes where the front suspension comes assembled complete with hubs and disks and wheels are added when suspension is  on car.. No screws means the disks would fall off in transit to factory.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2018, 03:55:41 PM by madasafish »

culzean

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Re: Jazz discs and pads
« Reply #51 on: July 14, 2018, 04:06:36 PM »

I would happily drill the head off any seized disc  retainer screw and not put another screw back in.  With four M12 wheel bolts holding the disc on then a couple of little screws are hardly going to be needed.

Did exactly that on our Peugeot 106 front disks and it happily motored for another 10 years like that.. I assume it is done for assembly production line purposes where the front suspension comes assembled complete with hubs and disks and wheels are added when suspension is  on car.. No screws means the disks would fall off in transit to factory.

Very true, screws there probably just to hold discs on until calipers are fitted on production line,  once calipers are in place disc will not fall off
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

MicktheMonster

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Re: Jazz discs and pads
« Reply #52 on: August 08, 2018, 04:59:33 PM »
I have replaced original discs last week for the first time, so as far as I am aware they haven't been off the car in 15 years, after reading no end of complaints about these retaining screws I found a YouTube video of a yank removing them from a  civic. He explained that Japanese manufacturers use screws with a Japanese Industrial Standard head, not a Philips, and he used a Japanese Vessel brand impact driver (size3) which is basically a screwdriver you hit with a hammer and it turns the head of the screw 15 degrees if you can hang onto it.
I bought one of these for about £11 on eBay from Japan and it worked fine although I had to really give it some Welly to shift the nearside ones, I also followed suggestions on here to tighten slightly before loosening, I don't know if this is a definitive solution or I just got lucky but the driver was no dearer than new screws and I've now got the driver for next time or next car. Vessel tools seem to be excellent quality, I'd never heard of them before.

Rory

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Re: Jazz discs and pads
« Reply #53 on: August 11, 2018, 11:55:10 AM »
Anyhow, my next move was to call out a mobile mechanic whom I've used for years and ask him to have a crack.  He removed the wheel, put the business end of a Philips screwdriver in the head of the disc screw, hit it a few times with a hammer and lo and behold, out it came, along with its neighbour. Same result on the other wheel. Red faced, I walked away and left him to it.   :-[

Cost me a few quid, but the main casualty was my pride.

Perhaps other people are different but I've found I've lost my 'touch' for working on cars, and with that goes a loss of confidence too.

If you watch a pro-mechanic working they make most things look easy - because they're doing it all day, every day.

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