Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums
Honda Jazz Forums => Honda Jazz Mk3 2015 - 2020 => Topic started by: Roddy0000 on August 16, 2018, 10:21:10 PM
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Hi
I have read several threads about the Atkinson engine being sluggish, I have the CVT version and have not found this to be the case as I think the revs are higher in normal driving than the manual maybe, I do find that I have to make the engine work harder compared with my mk2, I have not actually driven a manual but would value other peoples thoughts on this. Thanks.
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You do have to kick it out of Atkinson mode when you want to move, at last the original version. The facelifted version might have better programming in this respect - the courtesy car I drove earlier this year seemed better.
It's the downside of an automatic - the car can choose what ratio it wants and unless you signal your intentions the older Mk3 prefers to keep the rpm low.
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I had a mk3 manual which I replaced with a facelift cvt the Atkinson cycle was more noticeable in the manual especially when moving off from standstill below 2k revs there was no power resulting in the occasional stall the hair trigger accelerator peddle didn’t help. The cvt has none of these problems I never notice the Atkinson cycle if you want to get a move on it just goes, its eager to rev above 2000 rpm until it gets up to speed then the revs drop to lower than the manual I don’t notice having to kick it out of Atkinson mode if I put my foot down it goes faster!
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That is interesting, I switched from a manual 1.3 to a CVT 1.5. You mention stalling, coming from decades of diesel driving we both found this an occaisional problem when moving off. Particular care was required when turning into our street, an uphill right turn on a busy road. I think the torque converter must help when moving off in a CVT 1.3 possibly disguising it's gutless low rev power output. As I have said before I consider my purchase of a manual 1.3 a mistake as you have to work at driving it, making allowances for its lack of low speed performance. A good car spoiled by poor engine programming. The 1.5 engine totally transforms the car, making for relaxed progress, certainly with the CVT, but I would expect the same with a DIY gearbox.
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You do have to kick it out of Atkinson mode when you want to move, at last the original version. The facelifted version might have better programming in this respect - the courtesy car I drove earlier this year seemed better.
It's the downside of an automatic - the car can choose what ratio it wants and unless you signal your intentions the older Mk3 prefers to keep the rpm low.
On a cvt how do you kick it out of Atkinson mode, can someone please explain Atkinson mode. Thank you.
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That's interesting that you had problems with the manual. The previous courtesy cars I had were manual and I didn't notice any problems. I've always thought that manual gearboxes have one advantage in this respect (about the only one they have in my opinion :) ) in that if you want to move rapidly you select a lower gear. By doing that you're automatically selecting a higher RPM and moving the engine out of Atkinson mode.
But I generally follow IAM guidelines which means in built-up areas I'm rarely higher than third anyway so perhaps I was actually preventing Atkinson mode.
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You do have to kick it out of Atkinson mode when you want to move, at last the original version. The facelifted version might have better programming in this respect - the courtesy car I drove earlier this year seemed better.
It's the downside of an automatic - the car can choose what ratio it wants and unless you signal your intentions the older Mk3 prefers to keep the rpm low.
On a cvt how do you kick it out of Atkinson mode, can someone please explain Atkinson mode. Thank you.
Basically it's all about RPM. The engine switches between the two modes at around 2,500rpm. With the CVT model what I've found works is to jab the accelerator pedal down when you want to move. Not all the way to the floor as that's surprisingly/pleasingly dangerous in traffic but there is a kind of 'notch' part way down. If you rapidly push the pedal down to that point it acts like a kick down and the CVT will select a much lower ratio. As a result the engine RPM will jump up (typically to 3,000 rpm) and you'll find you move quite nicely. You also get a rather nice growl from the engine/exhaust. Not exactly sporty (the 1.3 doesn't really do sporty) but certainly a 'right, let's get down to business' note :)
As for the two modes: Atkinson mode modifies the way the valves operate so that it's similar to what an 'Atkinson Cycle (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atkinson_cycle)' engine does. This makes the engine more efficient but gutless. The normal operational mode is called 'Otto Cycle'.
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You do have to kick it out of Atkinson mode when you want to move, at last the original version. The facelifted version might have better programming in this respect - the courtesy car I drove earlier this year seemed better.
It's the downside of an automatic - the car can choose what ratio it wants and unless you signal your intentions the older Mk3 prefers to keep the rpm low.
On a cvt how do you kick it out of Atkinson mode, can someone please explain Atkinson mode. Thank you.
To get out of Atkinson mode you need to get the engine revs above about 3,000.
Here is an explanation of Atkinson, A Toyota video but the principal is the same. Atkinson engines usually have a hybrid system with a battery and motor to back up the engine at low revs, Honda forgot this with the 1.3 Jazz.
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On a cvt how do you kick it out of Atkinson mode, can someone please explain Atkinson mode. Thank you.
Your profile shows you have a 2011 Jazz (ie Mk 2) which doesn't have the Atkinson cycle mode. The Mk 3 1.3 Jazz has the Atkinson cycle mode at the lower end (<2,500 rpm?) of the rev range. This mode increases fuel efficiency by delaying closure of the inlet valves which allows some of the mixture to blow back into the manifold but there is the side-effect of reduced power. It works well in a hybrid system where the electric motor helps the low end power but doesn't work so well by itself. Hence the 1.3 Mk 3 Jazz engine needs revs to provide much power. With a manual gearbox the driver can effectively choose the revs and rate of acceleration but the CVT was programmed to increase the revs to around 3,000 rpm whenever it thinks more power is needed (the sales literature when it was released in 2015 claimed this "sporty" behaviour as an intended feature). I personally found this behaviour a bit tiring and traded in the Jazz for an HR-V which lacks the Atkinson cycle mode and has a much more progressive delivery of power (the same powertrain is in the 1.5 Jazz).
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After driving the 1.3 cvt for 25000 miles, I find there is ample power for my needs. As an alternative to pushing the accelerator to the floor for immediate extra power in "D" mode, I find a couple of clicks on the left hand paddle change works well. It reverts to lower revs as soon as you ease off, eg after overtaking. I think the engine/transmission system is excellent, and overall is giving me about 52 mpg measured by fuel bought.
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Well spotted John, I hadn't noticed that Roddy has a 2011 non Atkinson Jazz. Not that it matters, he may be a potential MK3 buyer or just be seeking information.
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After driving the 1.3 cvt for 25000 miles, I find there is ample power for my needs. As an alternative to pushing the accelerator to the floor for immediate extra power in "D" mode, I find a couple of clicks on the left hand paddle change works well. It reverts to lower revs as soon as you ease off, eg after overtaking. I think the engine/transmission system is excellent, and overall is giving me about 52 mpg measured by fuel bought.
If you find the 1.3 suits you that's fine, others have different priorities. Your fuel consumption indicates the type of driver you are.
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I test drove both the 1.5 & 1.3 cvt’s. I liked the extra power of the bigger engine, the 1.3 has to rev more to get past the low power stage. But not having all the goodies that the EX has swung it for me. The gearbox solves all the issues I had with the 1.3 manual and I quite like a revy engine I’m happy with my Choice.
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You do have to kick it out of Atkinson mode when you want to move, at last the original version. The facelifted version might have better programming in this respect - the courtesy car I drove earlier this year seemed better.
It's the downside of an automatic - the car can choose what ratio it wants and unless you signal your intentions the older Mk3 prefers to keep the rpm low.
On a cvt how do you kick it out of Atkinson mode, can someone please explain Atkinson mode. Thank you.
As someone else said, I find a quick pull or two on the left paddle much more responsive than the accelerator pedal when wanting to kick it it out of Atkinson. I find flooring the accelerator slower and awkward, and have never noticed a notch.
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After driving the 1.3 cvt for 25000 miles, I find there is ample power for my needs. As an alternative to pushing the accelerator to the floor for immediate extra power in "D" mode, I find a couple of clicks on the left hand paddle change works well. It reverts to lower revs as soon as you ease off, eg after overtaking. I think the engine/transmission system is excellent, and overall is giving me about 52 mpg measured by fuel bought.
If you find the 1.3 suits you that's fine, others have different priorities. Your fuel consumption indicates the type of driver you are.
A sensible one ;)
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You do have to kick it out of Atkinson mode when you want to move, at last the original version. The facelifted version might have better programming in this respect - the courtesy car I drove earlier this year seemed better.
It's the downside of an automatic - the car can choose what ratio it wants and unless you signal your intentions the older Mk3 prefers to keep the rpm low.
On a cvt how do you kick it out of Atkinson mode, can someone please explain Atkinson mode. Thank you.
As someone else said, I find a quick pull or two on the left paddle much more responsive than the accelerator pedal when wanting to kick it it out of Atkinson. I find flooring the accelerator slower and awkward, and have never noticed a notch.
Perhaps you need to press it further :)
It's not something I notice very often because I very rarely want that kind of acceleration. Others have noticed it though and some think it's a kick down switch, others think it might be a switch that overrides the speed limiter. I don't think it's a traditional kick down switch because the engine seems to kick-down without going that far. However I have noticed that if I push past the click then immediately release the pedal the car can buck around alarmingly so perhaps it's a 'super kick down'. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to be mentioned in the manual.
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It's not something I notice very often because I very rarely want that kind of acceleration. Others have noticed it though and some think it's a kick down switch, others think it might be a switch that overrides the speed limiter. I don't think it's a traditional kick down switch because the engine seems to kick-down without going that far. However I have noticed that if I push past the click then immediately release the pedal the car can buck around alarmingly so perhaps it's a 'super kick down'. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to be mentioned in the manual.
Assuming it is the same as the HR-V. I have just had one as a demo and can confirm it probably does both, overrides the speed limiter and possible kicks down the gearbox, but as andruec says, it kicks down anyway before the throttle reaches full travel. So not a conclusive test. A very quick dab, which is what I generally do, just overrides the speed limiter and doesn't give the gearbox time to react to a gear change.
The manual mentions "Kickdown" on page 395 but nothing about a full throttle stop.
Exceeding the Speed Limit Temporarily in covered on page 426:
The beeper sounds when the vehicle speed goes higher than the set speed limit with the acceleration pedal depressed completely.
The intelligent speed limiter resumes working once the vehicle speed goes lower than the set speed limit.
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You do have to kick it out of Atkinson mode when you want to move, at last the original version. The facelifted version might have better programming in this respect - the courtesy car I drove earlier this year seemed better.
It's the downside of an automatic - the car can choose what ratio it wants and unless you signal your intentions the older Mk3 prefers to keep the rpm low.
On a cvt how do you kick it out of Atkinson mode, can someone please explain Atkinson mode. Thank you.
As someone else said, I find a quick pull or two on the left paddle much more responsive than the accelerator pedal when wanting to kick it it out of Atkinson. I find flooring the accelerator slower and awkward, and have never noticed a notch.
If you haven't found the accelerator pedal detent, don't worry, you don't need it or the power it releases. :D
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You do have to kick it out of Atkinson mode when you want to move, at last the original version. The facelifted version might have better programming in this respect - the courtesy car I drove earlier this year seemed better.
It's the downside of an automatic - the car can choose what ratio it wants and unless you signal your intentions the older Mk3 prefers to keep the rpm low.
On a cvt how do you kick it out of Atkinson mode, can someone please explain Atkinson mode. Thank you.
As someone else said, I find a quick pull or two on the left paddle much more responsive than the accelerator pedal when wanting to kick it it out of Atkinson. I find flooring the accelerator slower and awkward, and have never noticed a notch.
Perhaps you need to press it further :)
It's not something I notice very often because I very rarely want that kind of acceleration. Others have noticed it though and some think it's a kick down switch, others think it might be a switch that overrides the speed limiter. I don't think it's a traditional kick down switch because the engine seems to kick-down without going that far. However I have noticed that if I push past the click then immediately release the pedal the car can buck around alarmingly so perhaps it's a 'super kick down'. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to be mentioned in the manual.
It's not surprising that car "Bucks around" if you floor it and immediately release the accelerator. You are applying full power and then releasing the accelerator. Not conducive to smooth, rapid, unobtrusive progress.
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I test drove both the 1.5 & 1.3 cvt’s. I liked the extra power of the bigger engine, the 1.3 has to rev more to get past the low power stage. But not having all the goodies that the EX has swung it for me. The gearbox solves all the issues I had with the 1.3 manual and I quite like a revy engine I’m happy with my Choice.
In the 2 months that I have had mine I am quite happy with the power with the CVT box, it pulls away when I need it to....
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You do have to kick it out of Atkinson mode when you want to move, at last the original version. The facelifted version might have better programming in this respect - the courtesy car I drove earlier this year seemed better.
It's the downside of an automatic - the car can choose what ratio it wants and unless you signal your intentions the older Mk3 prefers to keep the rpm low.
On a cvt how do you kick it out of Atkinson mode, can someone please explain Atkinson mode. Thank you.
As someone else said, I find a quick pull or two on the left paddle much more responsive than the accelerator pedal when wanting to kick it it out of Atkinson. I find flooring the accelerator slower and awkward, and have never noticed a notch.
If you haven't found the accelerator pedal detent, don't worry, you don't need it or the power it releases. :D
I think my normal driving position makes flooring the accelerator too much of a stretch. Will do a bit of experimenting on a suitable bit of road with no nervous pax.
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I test drove both the 1.5 & 1.3 cvt’s. I liked the extra power of the bigger engine, the 1.3 has to rev more to get past the low power stage. But not having all the goodies that the EX has swung it for me. The gearbox solves all the issues I had with the 1.3 manual and I quite like a revy engine I’m happy with my Choice.
What "goodies" does the EX have over the Sport? I can only think of an extra power socket, climate control, and tinted rear windows. My Sport has tinted rear windows, not difficult to organise. The 1.5 engine is no contest against them, I would not consider a gold plated 1.3.
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I test drove both the 1.5 & 1.3 cvt’s. I liked the extra power of the bigger engine, the 1.3 has to rev more to get past the low power stage. But not having all the goodies that the EX has swung it for me. The gearbox solves all the issues I had with the 1.3 manual and I quite like a revy engine I’m happy with my Choice.
What "goodies" does the EX have over the Sport? I can only think of an extra power socket, climate control, and tinted rear windows. My Sport has tinted rear windows, not difficult to organise. The 1.5 engine is no contest against them, I would not consider a gold plated 1.3.
I prefer comfort and convenience over over a little extra power with the EX you get
climate control (not having this is the deal breaker)
Reversing camera
Keyless entry and start
If I was interested in performance I wouldn’t be driving a Jazz
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I test drove both the 1.5 & 1.3 cvt’s. I liked the extra power of the bigger engine, the 1.3 has to rev more to get past the low power stage. But not having all the goodies that the EX has swung it for me. The gearbox solves all the issues I had with the 1.3 manual and I quite like a revy engine I’m happy with my Choice.
What "goodies" does the EX have over the Sport? I can only think of an extra power socket, climate control, and tinted rear windows. My Sport has tinted rear windows, not difficult to organise. The 1.5 engine is no contest against them, I would not consider a gold plated 1.3.
I prefer comfort and convenience over over a little extra power with the EX you get
climate control (not having this is the deal breaker)
Reversing camera
Keyless entry and start
If I was interested in performance I wouldn’t be driving a Jazz
Climate control - I can turn a knob occasionally.
Reversing camera - I prefer mirrors.
Keyless - Had it on previous cars, don't like it.
Performance - don't need it, but anything is better than a 1.3 Atkinson engine with no hybrid backup.
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Climate control - I can turn a knob occasionally.
Reversing camera - I prefer mirrors.
Keyless - Had it on previous cars, don't like it.
Performance - don't need it, but anything is better than a 1.3 Atkinson engine with no hybrid backup.
Seems, you're every bit as pleased with your Sport, as we are with our EXs.....
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Climate control - I can turn a knob occasionally.
Reversing camera - I prefer mirrors.
Keyless - Had it on previous cars, don't like it.
Performance - don't need it, but anything is better than a 1.3 Atkinson engine with no hybrid backup.
Seems, you're every bit as pleased with your Sport, as we are with our EXs.....
We all have different opinions, otherwise we’d all be owning the same car! After deciding to downsize from a Civic, I was open minded between an EX or a Sport (virtually the same price). After test driving both, for me personally, there was no contest.
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The reversing camera, was the decider, for me......
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The reversing camera, was the decider, for me......
I would rather be looking outside than staring at the dashboard when reversing. :o
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The reversing camera, was the decider, for me......
I would rather be looking outside than staring at the dashboard when reversing. :o
Each, to their own......
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I remember owning a car years ago with no wing mirrors, no heater and no heated rear screen. As time has gone by and each of these have been added, together with parking sensors and a reversing camera, I have never stopped looking through the windows at my surroundings. I enjoy the reversing camera as an aid but can't imagine myself relying on that alone.
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I remember owning a car years ago with no wing mirrors, no heater and no heated rear screen. As time has gone by and each of these have been added, together with parking sensors and a reversing camera, I have never stopped looking through the windows at my surroundings. I enjoy the reversing camera as an aid but can't imagine myself relying on that alone.
Yeah. There can’t be many cars easier to park than a Jazz.
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The reversing camera, was the decider, for me......
I would rather be looking outside than staring at the dashboard when reversing. :o
We've discussed that before, and as I explained to you then - it's not an either-or thing. The reversing camera is great for determining where the car is going. Thanks to the graphics you only need an occasional brief glance to keep the vehicle on track. Positioning the vehicle becomes almost automatic which frees up more of your brain to concentrate on what's going on around you.
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After driving the 1.3 cvt for 25000 miles, I find there is ample power for my needs. As an alternative to pushing the accelerator to the floor for immediate extra power in "D" mode, I find a couple of clicks on the left hand paddle change works well. It reverts to lower revs as soon as you ease off, eg after overtaking. I think the engine/transmission system is excellent, and overall is giving me about 52 mpg measured by fuel bought.
If you find the 1.3 suits you that's fine, others have different priorities. Your fuel consumption indicates the type of driver you are.
A sensible one ;)
Not my thoughts, but hey ho it's a free ish country. :)
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Has anyone had that stupid either young lad in a small clio type car when they see its a jazz want to go right up to your bum or like i found when i put my foot down a bit want to do same as they do not seem to like or expect the jazz to go fast and thats not top speed thats normal town driving.
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Has anyone had that stupid either young lad in a small clio type car when they see its a jazz want to go right up to your bum or like i found when i put my foot down a bit want to do same as they do not seem to like or expect the jazz to go fast and thats not top speed thats normal town driving.
I've grown out of those silly games. Just pull in and let them pass.
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Has anyone had that stupid either young lad in a small clio type car when they see its a jazz want to go right up to your bum or like i found when i put my foot down a bit want to do same as they do not seem to like or expect the jazz to go fast and thats not top speed thats normal town driving.
I overtook an Audi that was struggling to maintain a decent speed on local country lanes this afternoon. I find that most fast drivers are only fast in a straight line. They tend to brake for corners (I'd be embarrassed to misjudge a bend that much) and certainly off the main roads they are useless.
Unfortunately the main road between Brackley and Banbury has been closed due to a weak bridge so now it's either a much longer detour via the M40 or else country lanes. I don't mind country lanes except for the dweebs I keep meeting who think that anything above 40mph is too fast. Mind you with the main road not due to reopen this year I'm not looking forward to winter - I'll likely just have to accept the far longer detour once ice becomes a risk. Arse.
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As my Dad used to tell me, when I was a daft lad, "Anyone can go fast in a straight line". I love driving twisty roads, fast. As soon as we get on a windy country road my navigator jams herself into the seat, so she can hang on. I regularly burn off much faster cars. There is a series of bends behind Aberdour (wrote a car off there, as a teenager). I'll approach them at a steady 50 mph with a faster car right on my tail. And I just stick to 50 all the way through. Usually have about 50 to 70 yards clear space behind me as I leave the bends.
Another favourite spot is leaving the M9 on the M90, heading for the Queensferry Crossing. It used to be a tight left hander, then they built an on-slip, removing the outside lane and using the hard shoulder as Lane 1 (with a new, even tighter hard shoulder). When the road is dry and there is no one ahead to impede me, I take it pretty dammed fast. I don't get the tyres squealing but I am not far off. There is always someone wants to overtake, just as you enter the curve, and they are lucky if they are within 200 yards of me when the road eventually straightens up.
Once a boy racer, always a boy racer!
(https://i.imgur.com/MMzR5zF.jpg)
Baulked by slower cars, but only photo I have.
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BTCC race meeting at Knockhill next weekend.
https://www.knockhill.com/events/british-touring-car-championship
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I love Knockhill. Coldest place in Scotland on a race weekend! Had a go on their single seaters.
(https://i.imgur.com/k40FsIq.jpg)
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It's not something I notice very often because I very rarely want that kind of acceleration. Others have noticed it though and some think it's a kick down switch, others think it might be a switch that overrides the speed limiter. I don't think it's a traditional kick down switch because the engine seems to kick-down without going that far. However I have noticed that if I push past the click then immediately release the pedal the car can buck around alarmingly so perhaps it's a 'super kick down'. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to be mentioned in the manual.
In my experience, pushing the accelerator beyond the normal stop point results in further gear reduction, raising the revs to c.5000, i.e. approaching peak power. The beauty of he cvt for me is that it will give you whatever power you need regardless of road speed.
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It's not something I notice very often because I very rarely want that kind of acceleration. Others have noticed it though and some think it's a kick down switch, others think it might be a switch that overrides the speed limiter. I don't think it's a traditional kick down switch because the engine seems to kick-down without going that far. However I have noticed that if I push past the click then immediately release the pedal the car can buck around alarmingly so perhaps it's a 'super kick down'. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to be mentioned in the manual.
In my experience, pushing the accelerator beyond the normal stop point results in further gear reduction, raising the revs to c.5000, i.e. approaching peak power. The beauty of he cvt for me is that it will give you whatever power you need regardless of road speed.
The reason it seems to give a gear ratio reduction is it allows the engine to produce full power. The CVT will have dropped to its lowest appropriate ratio long before the accelerator passed the detent in pedal travel.
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It's not something I notice very often because I very rarely want that kind of acceleration. Others have noticed it though and some think it's a kick down switch, others think it might be a switch that overrides the speed limiter. I don't think it's a traditional kick down switch because the engine seems to kick-down without going that far. However I have noticed that if I push past the click then immediately release the pedal the car can buck around alarmingly so perhaps it's a 'super kick down'. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to be mentioned in the manual.
In my experience, pushing the accelerator beyond the normal stop point results in further gear reduction, raising the revs to c.5000, i.e. approaching peak power. The beauty of he cvt for me is that it will give you whatever power you need regardless of road speed.
The reason it seems to give a gear ratio reduction is it allows the engine to produce full power. The CVT will have dropped to its lowest appropriate ratio long before the accelerator passed the detent in pedal travel.
Perhaps it’s a failsafe button if the engine is already north of 3000 rpm when you go full throttle the computer might not decide to "gear down " instead just keep accelerating normally if you go past the indent it forces the lowest ratio for maximum acceleration
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It's not something I notice very often because I very rarely want that kind of acceleration. Others have noticed it though and some think it's a kick down switch, others think it might be a switch that overrides the speed limiter. I don't think it's a traditional kick down switch because the engine seems to kick-down without going that far. However I have noticed that if I push past the click then immediately release the pedal the car can buck around alarmingly so perhaps it's a 'super kick down'. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to be mentioned in the manual.
In my experience, pushing the accelerator beyond the normal stop point results in further gear reduction, raising the revs to c.5000, i.e. approaching peak power. The beauty of he cvt for me is that it will give you whatever power you need regardless of road speed.
The reason it seems to give a gear ratio reduction is it allows the engine to produce full power. The CVT will have dropped to its lowest appropriate ratio long before the accelerator passed the detent in pedal travel.
Perhaps it’s a failsafe button if the engine is already north of 3000 rpm when you go full throttle the computer might not decide to "gear down " instead just keep accelerating normally if you go past the indent it forces the lowest ratio for maximum acceleration
I think it is an economy device, in normal use you would think you have used the full accelerator travel, it is only going beyond the resistance you get full power. I had a Focus and Kia Ceed that both had this feature and it was described as an economy stop in the Ceed user manual.
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It's not something I notice very often because I very rarely want that kind of acceleration. Others have noticed it though and some think it's a kick down switch, others think it might be a switch that overrides the speed limiter. I don't think it's a traditional kick down switch because the engine seems to kick-down without going that far. However I have noticed that if I push past the click then immediately release the pedal the car can buck around alarmingly so perhaps it's a 'super kick down'. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to be mentioned in the manual.
In my experience, pushing the accelerator beyond the normal stop point results in further gear reduction, raising the revs to c.5000, i.e. approaching peak power. The beauty of he cvt for me is that it will give you whatever power you need regardless of road speed.
The reason it seems to give a gear ratio reduction is it allows the engine to produce full power. The CVT will have dropped to its lowest appropriate ratio long before the accelerator passed the detent in pedal travel.
Perhaps it’s a failsafe button if the engine is already north of 3000 rpm when you go full throttle the computer might not decide to "gear down " instead just keep accelerating normally if you go past the indent it forces the lowest ratio for maximum acceleration
I think it is an economy device, in normal use you would think you have used the full accelerator travel, it is only going beyond the resistance you get full power. I had a Focus and Kia Ceed that both had this feature and it was described in the user manual, unlike the Jazz.
Or maybe the indent is only there to cater for the speed limiter override as in the user manual.
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It works for me and I never use the speed limiter. Having looked at the manual, it only mentions depressing the accelerator fully, it does not mention going beyond the resistance of the detent.
This is from the Ceed manual, there is a lot of discussion about this on the Ceed forums with some thinking it is a faulty pedal.
If your vehicle is equipped with a kick
down mechanism in the accelerator
pedal, it prevents you from driving at
full throttle unintentionally by making
the driver require increased effort to
depress the accelerator pedal. However,
if you depress the pedal more than
approximately 80%, the vehicle can be
at full throttle and the accelerator pedal
will be easier to depress. This is not a
malfunction but a normal condition
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It works for me and I never use the speed limiter. Having looked at the manual, it only mentions depressing the accelerator fully, it does not mention going beyond the resistance of the detent.
I'm not sure what you mean "It works for me". And surely "depressing the accelerator fully" means just that.
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It works for me and I never use the speed limiter. Having looked at the manual, it only mentions depressing the accelerator fully, it does not mention going beyond the resistance of the detent.
I'm not sure what you mean "It works for me". And surely "depressing the accelerator fully" means just that.
It works for me means it gives me more power after the increased resistance although I don't use the limiters. I still think it is an economy stop which many drivers will never discover as they will think they are at full throttle when they reach the resistance.
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It works for me and I never use the speed limiter. Having looked at the manual, it only mentions depressing the accelerator fully, it does not mention going beyond the resistance of the detent.
I'm not sure what you mean "It works for me". And surely "depressing the accelerator fully" means just that.
It works for me means it gives me more power after the increased resistance although I don't use the limiters. I still think it is an economy stop which many drivers will never discover as they will think they are at full throttle when they reach the resistance.
It's certainly possible. A pity there's no mention of it in the Jazz manual.
I just did a Google search for it and this time it found quite a few hits (I thought last time I tried it didn't find anything):
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=accelerator+pedal+notch+at+bottom+of+travel&rlz=1C1CHBF_en-GBGB782GB782&oq=accelerator+pedal+notch+at+bottom+of+travel&aqs=chrome..69i57.5272j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
Lots of opinions, no-one seems to know for sure :-/
Maybe we could ask Honda. On the other hand why bother? I know what they will respond with:
"There is a notch at the bottom of the pedal and pressing past this point will make the car go faster."
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It works for me and I never use the speed limiter. Having looked at the manual, it only mentions depressing the accelerator fully, it does not mention going beyond the resistance of the detent.
I'm not sure what you mean "It works for me". And surely "depressing the accelerator fully" means just that.
It works for me means it gives me more power after the increased resistance although I don't use the limiters. I still think it is an economy stop which many drivers will never discover as they will think they are at full throttle when they reach the resistance.
OK I see what you mean. Just out of interest try the speed limiter some time (the manual one will do) and you will see what I am describing. I think you may find that with the limiter set it wont try to change down until you go past the indent. I don't have a CVT at my disposal so can't confirm that myself but I would be interested in your findings.
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Maybe not realising that full power is beyond the resistance accounts for some of the incredible mpg figures claimed. ;D
Just seen your post re try the limiter, I will have a go tomorrow, if I can figure out how it works, I am a cruise control user.
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In my experience, pushing the accelerator beyond the normal stop point results in further gear reduction, raising the revs to c.5000, i.e. approaching peak power. The beauty of he cvt for me is that it will give you whatever power you need regardless of road speed.
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The reason it seems to give a gear ratio reduction is it allows the engine to produce full power. The CVT will have dropped to its lowest appropriate ratio long before the accelerator passed the detent in pedal travel.
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No, there is definitely a further gearing reduction. There has to be for the engine revs to rise to near full power at any given roagd speed.
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@andurec. I owned a Focus 2.0 TDCI and a Ceed 1.6 diesel, both were manual transmissions and both had the resistance at the bottom of the accelerator travel. With both these cars there was info in the user manuals. In the Ford it it gave a turbo overboost for a short period, in the KIA it was an economy stop which released full power. I have driven many automatic cars which have had a transmission kickdown switch. The reason I think it is an economy device in the Jazz is my manual had it as does my CVT. The CVT does not need a kickdown switch, it works its magic long before you get to the resistance in the pedal. I had not considered the speed limiter angle but I will try it today if conditions are suitable, flooring a 1.5 rapidly puts you into licence threatening speeds! When I owned my previous manual cars with this device there was much forum discussion about it purpose.
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I am not sure that the CVT needs to reduce its ratio for the engine to increase its revs when the power outputs we are talking about are in use. For example (these are off the top of my head figures) say the engine is producing 110bhp at the resistance, passing the resistance in the pedal almost instantly releases another 20bhp, the engine revs will increase rapidly without a gear change.
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IMHO the indent is to fool the driver into thinking the throttle is all the way down. To put it in the manual would kind of negate its purpose. In an emergency the driver will push his foot hard down anyway and easily overcome the resistance.
On a slightly different vein, my brother sold me his Carlton (his first automatic), after four years ownership, and didn't find out it had Kickdown until the week before he parted with it! In his case it was not reading the manual rather than in not being in there.
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IMHO the indent is to fool the driver into thinking the throttle is all the way down. To put it in the manual would kind of negate its purpose.
We know why it is present on the manual version (speed limiter override), it says so in the user manual and I have one so can confirm that. It indubitable performs the same function in the CVT and I can also confirm that because I have driven an HR-V CVT. Skyrider may also confirm that for the Jazz later.
So the only question to be answered is that if it also performs a kick down function in the CVT.
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I am not sure that the CVT needs to reduce its ratio for the engine to increase its revs when the power outputs we are talking about are in use. For example (these are off the top of my head figures) say the engine is producing 110bhp at the resistance, passing the resistance in the pedal almost instantly releases another 20bhp, the engine revs will increase rapidly without a gear change.
I don't see how the engine can deliver maximum power without increasing the revs to peak power level - the power curve dictates the maximum power at any given engine speed.
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IMHO the indent is to fool the driver into thinking the throttle is all the way down. To put it in the manual would kind of negate its purpose.
We know why it is present on the manual version (speed limiter override), it says so in the user manual and I have one so can confirm that. It indubitable performs the same function in the CVT and I can also confirm that because I have driven an HR-V CVT. Skyrider may also confirm that for the Jazz later.
So the only question to be answered is that if it also performs a kick down function in the CVT.
I experimented with it a bit last night. I don't think it performs a kick-down because the car can be kicked down without pushing the pedal that far. For instance I often kick-down to get the car out of Atkinson mode. However going past that notch does seem to get some extra power even after you've kicked down so I think Skyrider is probably correct. It's some kind of WOT (Wide Open Throttle) guard to prevent you accidentally demanding total power from the engine. Although if so I'm not entirely sure what the point is. It's also something that wasn't felt necessary on the CVT-7 or the Mk2 both of which I have owned :-/
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IMHO the indent is to fool the driver into thinking the throttle is all the way down. To put it in the manual would kind of negate its purpose.
We know why it is present on the manual version (speed limiter override), it says so in the user manual and I have one so can confirm that. It indubitable performs the same function in the CVT and I can also confirm that because I have driven an HR-V CVT. Skyrider may also confirm that for the Jazz later.
So the only question to be answered is that if it also performs a kick down function in the CVT.
I experimented with it a bit last night. I don't think it performs a kick-down because the car can be kicked down without pushing the pedal that far. For instance I often kick-down to get the car out of Atkinson mode. However going past that notch does seem to get some extra power even after you've kicked down so I think Skyrider is probably correct. It's some kind of WOT (Wide Open Throttle) guard to prevent you accidentally demanding total power from the engine. Although if so I'm not entirely sure what the point is. It's also something that wasn't felt necessary on the CVT-7 or the Mk2 both of which I have owned :-/
Ok I think that answers our question. It is just there for speed limiter override.
And I think you are both correct @andruec, @skyrider. What would be the point in adopting that on a CVT. The acronym speaks for itself.
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I have done some experiments in my 1.5 CVT this morning. Bearing in mind this is the first and last time I will use the speed limiter, as I consider it a device of the devil. I expect a car to respond to control inputs not sit with its brain in neutral!
At varying speeds from 45 to 65 mph with the limiter on I slowly pressed the accelerator, the limiter did not cut out until way past the accelerator resistance and was almost fully depressed. Pressing the accelerator more rapidly had a similar effect. My conclusion is it is not a limiter cut out.
With the limiter off I pressed the accelerator through the resistance at varying rates and car speeds. The CVT changed down before I got to the resistance. After the resistance there was an increase in engine noise and revs but I am not sure if the CVT reduced its ratio any more as by this time the car was taking off like a scared cat.
This is all a bit academic because the treatment I gave my car this morning was not normal driving, and you would rarely need to go beyond the resistance in normal driving in a 1.5 unless you were trying a risky overtake.
My conclusion is still it is an economy stop.
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I like the analogy - we should rename it "the scared cat switch"!
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Thanks for doing those tests and to start with, I agree that this was a purely academic exercise. I certainly wouldn't drive like that normally. I make the following observations though:
At varying speeds from 45 to 65 mph with the limiter on I slowly pressed the accelerator, the limiter did not cut out until way past the accelerator resistance and was almost fully depressed. Pressing the accelerator more rapidly had a similar effect. My conclusion is it is not a limiter cut out.
There is very little travel on mine between indent and fully depressed so I would be concluding the exact opposite and that the resistance is there to indicate you are about to go to fully depressed.
With the limiter off I pressed the accelerator through the resistance at varying rates and car speeds. The CVT changed down before I got to the resistance. After the resistance there was an increase in engine noise and revs but I am not sure if the CVT reduced its ratio any more as by this time the car was taking off like a scared cat.
If you sensed that the engine revs increased and didn't sense an immediate and corresponding increase in road speed, then the ratio must have reduced.
My conclusion is still it is an economy stop.
I draw the opposite conclusion.
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If the resistance is a warning of limiter cut out it is not a cut out, and it does not cut out the limiter, you can drive on the limiter beyond the resistance.
I think the car taking off like a scared cat constitutes a dramatic speed increase.
Remember we have two very different cars, I had a 2016 car for two years, the 1.5 facelift is a step change in performance.
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I tried it this morning and found if you keep your foot planted past the notch it invokes a fake gear change between 5000 rpm and the red line (hits the red line then immediately drops to 5000rpm)only did 2 changes before I chickened out :o
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I tried it this morning and found if you keep your foot planted past the notch it invokes a fake gear change between 5000 rpm and the red line (hits the red line then immediately drops to 5000rpm)only did 2 changes before I chickened out :o
It's a bit difficult for me to find a non police or camera infested road to try that! Even a 70 limit would be risky. Where I live there are only fixed cameras (lots of them) on the motorways, but we have frequently moved speed camera vans.
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I tried it this morning and found if you keep your foot planted past the notch it invokes a fake gear change between 5000 rpm and the red line (hits the red line then immediately drops to 5000rpm)only did 2 changes before I chickened out :o
It's a bit difficult for me to find a non police or camera infested road to try that! Even a 70 limit would be risky. Where I live there are only fixed cameras (lots of them) on the motorways, but we have frequently moved speed camera vans.
Yeah a long uphill drag at 5am on the motorway and a gutless engine helps! Mind you it was still surprising how quick it got up to the speed limit before I gave up ;)
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I am retiring from any further tests and trials involving power. Mrs Sky (aka the management) witnessed the trials and was less than impressed, she thought I had just bought another Jazz, the scared cat is out of the bag!
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I tried it this morning and found if you keep your foot planted past the notch it invokes a fake gear change between 5000 rpm and the red line (hits the red line then immediately drops to 5000rpm)only did 2 changes before I chickened out :o
Is that the facelifted Mk3? I noticed that behaviour from the courtesy car I drove. It seemed to mimic the rising/falling cadence you get from a manual. I didn't feel any change in acceleration though so it seemed like just an audio illusion that Honda have chosen to create.
In my older Jazz the revs never do anything but rise while you press the accelerator which is what a 'proper' CVT should do. The RPMs don't normally get to the red line unless you're doing something unusual (like in my case occasionally climbing up from the M40 J11* at 90mph). And once at the redline they just stay there until you let off.
(*)In the opposite direction the car will happily sit at 60mph with my foot off the accelerator. It's not a seriously steep hill but it takes some grunt to get to 90mph half way up. And a modicum of idiocy :)
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I tried it this morning and found if you keep your foot planted past the notch it invokes a fake gear change between 5000 rpm and the red line (hits the red line then immediately drops to 5000rpm)only did 2 changes before I chickened out :o
Is that the facelifted Mk3? I noticed that behaviour from the courtesy car I drove. It seemed to mimic the rising/falling cadence you get from a manual. I didn't feel any change in acceleration though so it seemed like just an audio illusion that Honda have chosen to create.
In my older Jazz the revs never do anything but rise while you press the accelerator which is what a 'proper' CVT should do. The RPMs don't normally get to the red line unless you're doing something unusual (like in my case occasionally climbing up from the M40 J11* at 90mph). And once at the redline they just stay there until you let off.
(*)In the opposite direction the car will happily sit at 60mph with my foot off the accelerator. It's not a seriously steep hill but it takes some grunt to get to 90mph half way up. And a modicum of idiocy :)
Yes it’s the face lifted version it only gets to the red line and does fake gear changes if I go past the notch at the bottom of the pedal travel in normal driving it works as you describe
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I tried it this morning and found if you keep your foot planted past the notch it invokes a fake gear change between 5000 rpm and the red line (hits the red line then immediately drops to 5000rpm)only did 2 changes before I chickened out :o
Is that the facelifted Mk3? I noticed that behaviour from the courtesy car I drove. It seemed to mimic the rising/falling cadence you get from a manual. I didn't feel any change in acceleration though so it seemed like just an audio illusion that Honda have chosen to create.
In my older Jazz the revs never do anything but rise while you press the accelerator which is what a 'proper' CVT should do. The RPMs don't normally get to the red line unless you're doing something unusual (like in my case occasionally climbing up from the M40 J11* at 90mph). And once at the redline they just stay there until you let off.
(*)In the opposite direction the car will happily sit at 60mph with my foot off the accelerator. It's not a seriously steep hill but it takes some grunt to get to 90mph half way up. And a modicum of idiocy :)
Yes it’s the face lifted version it only gets to the red line and does fake gear changes if I go past the notch at the bottom of the pedal travel in normal driving it works as you describe
That adds credence to the idea that the notch is some kind of 'only if you really mean it' guard. Although on my model it doesn't really seem to achieve much, just giving access to the last bit of power.
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So we have -
Economy stop.
Scared cat switch.
Only if you really mean it guard.
I see a consensus emerging.
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So we have -
Economy stop.
Scared cat switch.
Only if you really mean it guard.
I see a consensus emerging.
MKIII MT - Speed Limiter Override
Sports CVT - I don't think it matters what it's called as the only time my foot would get close to it would be for a quick dab to override the limiter.
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The accelerator resistance obviously has a different function on your MT car, yesterday on several occasions the limiter did not switch off when I had the accelerator beyond the resistance. In fact It took a concerted effort to get it to switch off, I tried several different accelerator movements both speed and amount of movement. The only thing that seems to switch it off was almost fully depressing the pedal. Most disconcerting, it felt like the pedal was disconnected, as opposed to being very responsive (no Atkinson on my car). I will not be using the limiter again, at least I know it works (very crudely). I find cruise control far easier to use.
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I will not be using the limiter again, at least I know it works (very crudely). I find cruise control far easier to use.
I would never use mine. Controlling your speed is part of controlling your vehicle. If you can't maintain your intended speed or don't have an intended speed you shouldn't be behind the wheel. It's not difficult to do and it shouldn't take more than an occasional glance at the speedometer. A competent driver can tell whether they are slowing down or speeding up even if they don't know the actual speed. A good driver can use anticipation to work out when the vehicle speed is likely to change due to conditions and can pre-empt it by lifting off or applying more power.
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I will not be using the limiter again, at least I know it works (very crudely). I find cruise control far easier to use.
I would never use mine. Controlling your speed is part of controlling your vehicle. If you can't maintain your intended speed or don't have an intended speed you shouldn't be behind the wheel. It's not difficult to do and it shouldn't take more than an occasional glance at the speedometer. A competent driver can tell whether they are slowing down or speeding up even if they don't know the actual speed. A good driver can use anticipation to work out when the vehicle speed is likely to change due to conditions and can pre-empt it by lifting off or applying more power.
Don't all those comments apply equally to cruise control?
It's not about ability its about convenience.
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I will not be using the limiter again, at least I know it works (very crudely). I find cruise control far easier to use.
I would never use mine. Controlling your speed is part of controlling your vehicle. If you can't maintain your intended speed or don't have an intended speed you shouldn't be behind the wheel. It's not difficult to do and it shouldn't take more than an occasional glance at the speedometer. A competent driver can tell whether they are slowing down or speeding up even if they don't know the actual speed. A good driver can use anticipation to work out when the vehicle speed is likely to change due to conditions and can pre-empt it by lifting off or applying more power.
Don't all those comments apply equally to cruise control?
It's not about ability its about convenience.
A helluva lot of my driving nowadays is on rural roads and there’s a lot of speed cameras around us. I find the speed alarms invaluable. Set at 33mph and 54mph, they just ping to give me a reminder to ease back.
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If you need a reminder you are not concentrating on driving.
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If you need a reminder you are not concentrating on driving.
LOL! Very true. My missus will like that one ::)
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If you need a reminder you are not concentrating on driving.
Are you saying, hand on heart, that you have never drifted over the speed limit? With the possible "zero tolerance" being adopted by police forces throughout the country there may well be a lot of points going on licences.
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If you need a reminder you are not concentrating on driving.
Are you saying, hand on heart, that you have never drifted over the speed limit? With the possible "zero tolerance" being adopted by police forces throughout the country there may well be a lot of points going on licences.
Speed drift is easily avoided, set the cruise control to the speed limit. No annoying bleeps required and the accelerator still works if required.
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If you need a reminder you are not concentrating on driving.
Are you saying, hand on heart, that you have never drifted over the speed limit? With the possible "zero tolerance" being adopted by police forces throughout the country there may well be a lot of points going on licences.
Speed drift is easily avoided, set the cruise control to the speed limit. No annoying bleeps required and the accelerator still works if required.
Cruise control is crap in traffic that is forever changing speed. Give me the limiter any day. I only use cruise control on motorways and long stretches of quiet dual carriageways. Horses for courses.
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Speed drift is easily avoided, set the cruise control to the speed limit. No annoying bleeps required and the accelerator still works if required.
My last car had cruise control and I used it constantly for that very reason.
My works van had a speed limiter, and the only time it offered any resistance to the accelerator pedal was when it was engaged. And that resistance wasn't at the same place every time. Going down a hill, set at 30 mph, it would offer resistance immediately. Going up hill, set for 70 mph, it didn't offer resistance until pedal was well down. It only offered resistance when the set speed was reached.
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In the Jazz there is no resistance to the accelerator, it just doesn't do anything, it feels disconnected.
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I will not be using the limiter again, at least I know it works (very crudely). I find cruise control far easier to use.
I would never use mine. Controlling your speed is part of controlling your vehicle. If you can't maintain your intended speed or don't have an intended speed you shouldn't be behind the wheel. It's not difficult to do and it shouldn't take more than an occasional glance at the speedometer. A competent driver can tell whether they are slowing down or speeding up even if they don't know the actual speed. A good driver can use anticipation to work out when the vehicle speed is likely to change due to conditions and can pre-empt it by lifting off or applying more power.
Whilst I agree with your sentiments regarding maintaining a set speed, I find there are many drivers on the road who have no idea how they are driving. Very often, the driver in front of me is continually varying his/her speed, usually down, even on an open road, without traffic, for no apparent reason, which means i am having to make adjustment to my cruise control to suit, or be forced to overtake to maintain pace.
I must admit I tend to use cruise control wherever possible, even in urban areas, where conditions permit.
On the motorway, if you set your speed to 70, there is virtually no chance of over speeding, since the actual speed according to my satnav is only 67/68 mph.
Oh yes, don't get me started on 50 mph roadworks, where some drivers again for no apparent reason, choose to travel at 40 mph or less!!
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I almost always use cruise control on a 30 mph main road near me, but I know that the speed camera van is sometimes lurking out of sight around a bend!
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I will not be using the limiter again, at least I know it works (very crudely). I find cruise control far easier to use.
I would never use mine. Controlling your speed is part of controlling your vehicle. If you can't maintain your intended speed or don't have an intended speed you shouldn't be behind the wheel. It's not difficult to do and it shouldn't take more than an occasional glance at the speedometer. A competent driver can tell whether they are slowing down or speeding up even if they don't know the actual speed. A good driver can use anticipation to work out when the vehicle speed is likely to change due to conditions and can pre-empt it by lifting off or applying more power.
Don't all those comments apply equally to cruise control?
It's not about ability its about convenience.
* Cruise control is allowing the car to maintain the speed because you know there'll be no need to vary it for a long time. Yes, that's convenience.
* Speed limiters prevent you doing something that don't trust yourself not to do. That's making up for lack of skill or concentration.
* Speed limit alarms are there to remind you of something. That's a fallback for when you get careless or sloppy.
Whether a good driver would use any of these is debatable but I'd argue that they might use CC knowing that it helps rest their leg and hip muscles thereby avoiding cramp and ensuring that when it finally becomes necessary to adjust the vehicle's speed manually they have the best physical control possible.
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If you need a reminder you are not concentrating on driving.
Are you saying, hand on heart, that you have never drifted over the speed limit? With the possible "zero tolerance" being adopted by police forces throughout the country there may well be a lot of points going on licences.
Yes, I can. I am, frankly, anal about it. I don't stare at the speedometer though because that isn't necessary. Also as I've already said I do on occasion exceed the speed limit (albeit only very rarely) by a large and deliberate margin. But 'drift' over it? No way. Never. It's a matter of pride.
I also don't slow for corners any more than I have to, would be horrified if I had to use my brakes to adjust my speed on a bend and whilst I typically drive motorways in lane one with the CC Set to 60mph I drive through roadworks at 50mph - usually in lane three slowly overtaking everyone else. It's a funny ol' world.
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I will not be using the limiter again, at least I know it works (very crudely). I find cruise control far easier to use.
I would never use mine. Controlling your speed is part of controlling your vehicle. If you can't maintain your intended speed or don't have an intended speed you shouldn't be behind the wheel. It's not difficult to do and it shouldn't take more than an occasional glance at the speedometer. A competent driver can tell whether they are slowing down or speeding up even if they don't know the actual speed. A good driver can use anticipation to work out when the vehicle speed is likely to change due to conditions and can pre-empt it by lifting off or applying more power.
Don't all those comments apply equally to cruise control?
It's not about ability its about convenience.
* Cruise control is allowing the car to maintain the speed because you know there'll be no need to vary it for a long time. Yes, that's convenience.
* Speed limiters prevent you doing something that don't trust yourself not to do. That's making up for lack of skill or concentration.
* Speed limit alarms are there to remind you of something. That's a fallback for when you get careless or sloppy.
Whether a good driver would use any of these is debatable but I'd argue that they might use CC knowing that it helps rest their leg and hip muscles thereby avoiding cramp and ensuring that when it finally becomes necessary to adjust the vehicle's speed manually they have the best physical control possible.
I think a case could be made that automatically controlling the speed of the car to the applicable limits enables the driver to use more CPU on other aspects of driving.
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That's a fallback for when you get careless or sloppy.
I don't care what anyone says, no driver out there NEVER gets careless or sloppy. Not even the likes of Alonso, Hamilton, Senna or Schumacher. Whether it be down to a momentary lack of concentration, tiredness, boredom or a stressful situation, every one of us had had a lapse, however insignificant. If you have ever exceeded the speed limit, unless you have done so deliberately, you have been careless or sloppy. That, "exceeding the speed limit", may just be the moment you trigger the camera or speed gun
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I will not be using the limiter again, at least I know it works (very crudely). I find cruise control far easier to use.
I would never use mine. Controlling your speed is part of controlling your vehicle. If you can't maintain your intended speed or don't have an intended speed you shouldn't be behind the wheel. It's not difficult to do and it shouldn't take more than an occasional glance at the speedometer. A competent driver can tell whether they are slowing down or speeding up even if they don't know the actual speed. A good driver can use anticipation to work out when the vehicle speed is likely to change due to conditions and can pre-empt it by lifting off or applying more power.
Don't all those comments apply equally to cruise control?
It's not about ability its about convenience.
* Cruise control is allowing the car to maintain the speed because you know there'll be no need to vary it for a long time. Yes, that's convenience.
* Speed limiters prevent you doing something that don't trust yourself not to do. That's making up for lack of skill or concentration.
* Speed limit alarms are there to remind you of something. That's a fallback for when you get careless or sloppy.
Whether a good driver would use any of these is debatable but I'd argue that they might use CC knowing that it helps rest their leg and hip muscles thereby avoiding cramp and ensuring that when it finally becomes necessary to adjust the vehicle's speed manually they have the best physical control possible.
I think a case could be made that automatically controlling the speed of the car to the applicable limits enables the driver to use more CPU on other aspects of driving.
A fair point. I think if limiters (or at least alarms) could be set automatically there would be more value to them. Although I never 'drift' off my target speed I am sometimes uncertain about the speed limit (one reason I like the fact the Jazz displays it on the dash) and signs can be hidden by foliage as indeed they are on one route I'm being forced to use at the moment. An audible notification of an upcoming limit would be helpful. However I maintain that if you need your car to warn you about speed drift or to prevent you exceeding your intended limit then some personal training is required.
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That's a fallback for when you get careless or sloppy.
I don't care what anyone says, no driver out there NEVER gets careless or sloppy. Not even the likes of Alonso, Hamilton, Senna or Schumacher. Whether it be down to a momentary lack of concentration, tiredness, boredom or a stressful situation, every one of us had had a lapse, however insignificant. If you have ever exceeded the speed limit, unless you have done so deliberately, you have been careless or sloppy. That, "exceeding the speed limit", may just be the moment you trigger the camera or speed gun
Nope. Most speedometers overread by at least 10%. If your speedometer is reading 50mph you will probably only be doing 47mph. In order to exceed the speed limit you need to let the needle 'drift' to nearly 55mph. Any driver that allows that to happen is not competent.
And to trigger any kind of police action (or to get a photograph taken) you need to be going so fast that your speedometer is reading 60mph. Any driver intending to drive at 50mph that manages to trigger legal action is utterly incompetent and deserves everything they get.
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I didn't say exceeded 50 mph on the car speedometer. I said exceeded the speed limit.
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I didn't say exceeded 50 mph on the car speedometer. I said exceeded the speed limit.
That comment does highlight one of the big (for me) problems with the speed limiter control system. It sees the road sign "30" and sets the car speed to speedo 30. I normally drive at true 30 mph in 30 zones, not 27 mph. Similarly 40 and 50 zones.
You can notch it up to true 30 mph with the + button but that only works for that event and is not sticky.
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That's a fallback for when you get careless or sloppy.
I don't care what anyone says, no driver out there NEVER gets careless or sloppy. Not even the likes of Alonso, Hamilton, Senna or Schumacher. Whether it be down to a momentary lack of concentration, tiredness, boredom or a stressful situation, every one of us had had a lapse, however insignificant. If you have ever exceeded the speed limit, unless you have done so deliberately, you have been careless or sloppy. That, "exceeding the speed limit", may just be the moment you trigger the camera or speed gun
Nope. Most speedometers overread by at least 10%. If your speedometer is reading 50mph you will probably only be doing 47mph. In order to exceed the speed limit you need to let the needle 'drift' to nearly 55mph. Any driver that allows that to happen is not competent.
And to trigger any kind of police action (or to get a photograph taken) you need to be going so fast that your speedometer is reading 60mph. Any driver intending to drive at 50mph that manages to trigger legal action is utterly incompetent and deserves everything they get.
I think a fundamental point is being missed here. They are LIMITS not TARGETS. I aim to drive at a speed suitable for the prevailing conditions so if, for example, children are playing by the side of the road, I will slow down. The speed limiter helps me to concentrate on important things like that.
I don't care about others attitudes, that is how I drive and don't consider myself incompetent. But neither am I perfect either. And I totally agree with Jocko's statement. Anyone who doesn't is in my mind delusional.