Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums
Honda Jazz Forums => Honda Jazz Mk3 2015 - 2020 => Topic started by: Roddy0000 on June 19, 2018, 09:46:03 PM
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Hi, I had a mk2 Jazz and now got mk3. It seems to me that the gear ratio is different to the mk2 and the mpg does not seem brilliant to me, about 43 on good runs at the moment but have been driving at 70, do you think that this will improve with more mileage.
What do people consider at what mileage on these engines are they considered as run in ?
Many thanks.
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It will improve a bit but, as noted in another thread, at 70mph it's unlikely you will see much improvement. At that speed the engine has to work quite hard to overcome drag and to work hard it has to burn fuel. Most efficiencies come from avoiding wasted fuel and at 70mph very little fuel is being wasted(*).
The mpg improvements of the Mk3 JAzz are mainly going to apply when you travel at or below 60 mph because that allows the engine to operate in the more efficient (but less powerful) Atkinson mode. Most people here have seen a slight improvement over the Mk2 (I see around a 2% improvement overall). So urban driving and single lane carriageways are where the most gains are likely.
(*)In a purely mechanical sense, at least. In a more practical sense the difference between 60 mph and 70 mph is such that on most journeys it's unlikely to save much time so it could be argued that choosing to travel at 70 mph is inherently wasteful ;)
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Hi, I had a mk2 Jazz and now got mk3. It seems to me that the gear ratio is different to the mk2 and the mpg does not seem brilliant to me, about 43 on good runs at the moment but have been driving at 70, do you think that this will improve with more mileage.
What do people consider at what mileage on these engines are they considered as run in ?
Many thanks.
I posted this info in the MPG thread (https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=7808.0) recently:
My Mk2 CVT averaged 43.3 mpg over 25,761 miles of very mixed motoring in a 22 month period.
My Mk3 CVT has averaged 46.1 mpg over 28,383 miles of similar mixed motoring in a 24 month period.
The above two numbers are very comparable as our usage has not changed over the last four years.
All data by recording at pump and mileage, not onboard computer.
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My Mk 1 Manual has averaged 53.8 mpg over 16714 miles and 24 months of mixed motoring, again, all data by recording at pump and mileage, not onboard computer. Wonder if that is down to the 1.2 engine?
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My Mk3 MT has averaged 50.34 mpg over 31,200 miles of similar mixed motoring in a 27 month period. Again all data by recording at pump and mileage, not onboard computer.
I do very little motorway driving but when I do, I tend to drive at 70mph and the fuel consumption is noticably more.
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My Mk3 MT has averaged 50.34 mpg over 31,200 miles of similar mixed motoring in a 27 month period. Again all data by recording at pump and mileage, not onboard computer.
I do very little motorway driving but when I do, I tend to drive at 70mph and the fuel consumption is noticably more.
Your 50.34 mpg is pretty consistent with my 46.1 mpg, as I do a lot of motorway, usually in the fast lane at whatever speed it is doing.
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Does the 1.5 sport cvt have six or seven ratios as my old daihatsu yrv turbo cvt 1.3 had seven which seven was useful on motorways.
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Does the 1.5 sport cvt have six or seven ratios
Remember, the CVT "Ratios" are only pretend. They are just there to please the motoring journalists. CVT is a Constantly Variable Transmission, with a mechanically seamless range, from High to Low. It could have 2 "steps" or 10. The mechanical side in the same.
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Mine has seven virtual steps, I actually used them to see if they worked. The car sorts out the best ratio far better than I can and I have driven HGVs, and have had advanced driver training ya de da de da. It is one case of the computer knows best!
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When accelerating in "D", I do not notice any steps. It is possible to accelerate steadily with almost constant revs, with the cvt simply delivering the requested power.
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As I said, the computer knows best depending on what you do with your right foot. Tickle the accelerator and you get smooth acceleration, use power and it will simulate a gear change or kickdown. In my post above I was referring to running through the seven computer generated ratios with the steering wheel paddles to check they worked. They do, but I doubt if I will use them much if at all, the CVT is easily controlled with your right foot.
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As I said, the computer knows best depending on what you do with your right foot. Tickle the accelerator and you get smooth acceleration, use power and it will simulate a gear change or kickdown. In my post above I was referring to running through the seven computer generated ratios with the steering wheel paddles to check they worked. They do, but I doubt if I will use them much if at all, the CVT is easily controlled with your right foot.
How do you decelerate with the CVT with your right foot alone?
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As I said, the computer knows best depending on what you do with your right foot. Tickle the accelerator and you get smooth acceleration, use power and it will simulate a gear change or kickdown. In my post above I was referring to running through the seven computer generated ratios with the steering wheel paddles to check they worked. They do, but I doubt if I will use them much if at all, the CVT is easily controlled with your right foot.
How do you decelerate with the CVT with your right foot alone?
Lift off. You don't get as much deceleration as you would in a manual though unless you use the paddles. Even then there seem to be limits as to what the CVT will tolerate and it starts releasing then re-applying the braking as if trying to release pressure. In normal mode though I find that most of the time there's enough retardation to avoid using the brakes - even around town - but I have had to increase the gap to the vehicle in front and look a little further ahead.
The Mk1 was different from Mk2 and Mk3 because sometimes even in 'standard' mode the CVT would give quite reasonable retardation when you lifted off. It didn't do it very often though and I never managed to work out how to reliably trigger it.
But I think Skyrider just means that you can use your right foot to control the gear ratio which I suppose is correct. As a lowly 1.3 user I have to use my right foot sometimes to get the engine out of Atkinson mode. That's one thing that does cause a 'step' while accelerating. Possibly fixed in the face lifted 1.3 as I didn't notice it in February when I had a courtesy car.
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That sounds much like my car except no Atkinson. There is a "step" if you are a bit enthusiastic with the right foot. Or even a couple if you are accelerating hard.
Does anyone know if the MK2 has a torque converter or start clutch CVT?
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Torque converter
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I think there seems to be one point where the computer does not know best.
If you are running at about 30 mph and you try to accelerate moderately, the engine will try it's best to respond, but is held back because the CVT won't change down and it maintains about 1600 rpm, until the road speed reaches about 40 mph, thereupon the CVT wakes up and allows the engine speed to increase, thereby generating more power.
To my mind in that situation, the engine is working harder than it needs to, at relatively low speed, which can't be good for long life.
Obviously you can floor it, to overcome that limitation, or flick a paddle to change down a notch, which is something I've now got into the habit of doing.
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Could this be part of the economy biased programming of the 1.3 engine and CVT?
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Could this be part of the economy biased programming of the 1.3 engine and CVT?
Definitely.
My Mk3 CVT has more bhp and more torque than my wife's Mk1 CVT, but it doesn't feel like in normal driving.
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My Mk3 CVT has more bhp and more torque than my wife's Mk1 CVT, but it doesn't feel like in normal driving.
The Mk1 Jazz had a great engine capable of really good MPG, and with the power in the right place for relaxed driving and although later models have more power ( if you rev their nuts off ) and the suspension is better I sometimes miss the MK1 engine when driving my wifes MK2.
Fair to say Autocar does not think much of MK3, Auto Express a bit better...... non of them like CVT
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/honda/jazz/first-drives/honda-jazz-15-i-vtec-sport-2018-uk-review
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/honda/jazz
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That sounds much like my car except no Atkinson. There is a "step" if you are a bit enthusiastic with the right foot. Or even a couple if you are accelerating hard.
Does anyone know if the MK2 has a torque converter or start clutch CVT?
If you floor the accelerator there will be a kick-down - all automatics should do that. But in the early Mk3s there's also a dead-spot (feels a bit like 'turbo lag') around 2,000 rpm. If I don't prod the accelerator aggressively when leaving a roundabout very little happens. It's not noticeable in the manual version because road wheel speed and gear selection mean you always get the response you want. But with the CVT the car can decide what RPM to use and thus whether to switch the engine to Otto cycle or stay in Atkinson.
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I think there seems to be one point where the computer does not know best.
If you are running at about 30 mph and you try to accelerate moderately, the engine will try it's best to respond, but is held back because the CVT won't change down and it maintains about 1600 rpm, until the road speed reaches about 40 mph, thereupon the CVT wakes up and allows the engine speed to increase, thereby generating more power.
That's not the CVT - that's the engine mode. As I say in my previous reply the CVT gives 'the car' the option of how to operate the engine and it seems to prefer staying in Atkison mode. I've developed a technique of a 'mini-kickdown'. A short but rapid downward press of the accelerator appears to convince the ECU that you want to move and it will move the engine into Otto cycle. You don't want a full kick-down but you do need to signal to the car that you want to move.
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So in the mk3 cvt 1.5 sport there is normal drive and lever right back s mode where you can use the paddles or let it change for you, if this is so its like the daihatsu yrv turbo cvt 7 step ratios 130 i had and in sport mode paddleshift it was so quick and as good as any dsg i have had before the 0.60 was 7.8secs but mostly it was the acceleration that was good.
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So in the mk3 cvt 1.5 sport there is normal drive and lever right back s mode where you can use the paddles or let it change for you, if this is so its like the daihatsu yrv turbo cvt 7 step ratios 130 i had and in sport mode paddleshift it was so quick and as good as any dsg i have had before the 0.60 was 7.8secs but mostly it was the acceleration that was good.
You can use the paddles to "change gear" in Drive or Sport modes.
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So in the mk3 cvt 1.5 sport there is normal drive and lever right back s mode where you can use the paddles or let it change for you, if this is so its like the daihatsu yrv turbo cvt 7 step ratios 130 i had and in sport mode paddleshift it was so quick and as good as any dsg i have had before the 0.60 was 7.8secs but mostly it was the acceleration that was good.
You can use the paddles to "change gear" in Drive or Sport modes.
In Sport mode the car stays in the paddle selected gear, but in normal mode it will change out of paddle selected at the slightest excuse. This is how it is on the Mk2 and Mk3 (1.3)
Is the 1.5 different in this respect?
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No.
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So in sport mode do you have to use the paddles or will it change for you.
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You have to use the paddles to " change gear" yourself in Sport mode, otherwise it is just like Drive with higher engine revs for a more lively response to the accelerator. To get back to auto in Sport mode you hold the ""up" paddle for a few seconds.
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You have to use the paddles to " change gear" yourself in Sport mode, otherwise it is just like Drive with higher engine revs for a more lively response to the accelerator. To get back to auto in Sport mode you hold the ""up" paddle for a few seconds.
That's the same as the 1.3 in 'D' mode but in 'D' mode the 1.3 also reverts back to normality if you stop, or if you just maintain speed for several seconds. It means that the paddles are only really useful for downhill engine braking or temporarily taking control, eg for an overtake. I haven't driven my 1.3 in 'S' but I seem to recall that the Mk2 was happier to let you stay in 7-speed mode until you stopped.
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You have to use the paddles to " change gear" yourself in Sport mode, otherwise it is just like Drive with higher engine revs for a more lively response to the accelerator. To get back to auto in Sport mode you hold the ""up" paddle for a few seconds.
Sorry sky i just asked about this in another post many thanks you have answered the question so whats it like in sport mode when you have put it into auto as you could leave it this way all the time or do you on restarting have to hold the up paddle again and how do you return it back to paddle shift.
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You have to use the paddles to " change gear" yourself in Sport mode, otherwise it is just like Drive with higher engine revs for a more lively response to the accelerator. To get back to auto in Sport mode you hold the ""up" paddle for a few seconds.
Sorry sky i just asked about this in another post many thanks you have answered the question so whats it like in sport mode when you have put it into auto as you could leave it this way all the time or do you on restarting have to hold the up paddle again and how do you return it back to paddle shift.
The CVT will always be in auto mode untill you use a paddle I am not sure but I think it will revert to auto if you stop and then move off. I see the paddles as a bit of a toy, they are of little use 99% of the time. The CVT is an auto transmission, that is what it does best. Leaving it in Sport permanently would just use more fuel, for most driving the CVT is more than adequate in Drive with the 1.5 engine.
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I havent used sport mode at all apart from a couple of times and not sure I needed too then. Im curious to try it all the time in sport mode for a 50 miles mixed and see what mpg etc I get - and if its actually anymore snappy and not just revving.
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I havent used sport mode at all apart from a couple of times and not sure I needed too then. Im curious to try it all the time in sport mode for a 50 miles mixed and see what mpg etc I get - and if its actually anymore snappy and not just revving.
One of the joys of a new car, exploring its capabilities!
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Hi, I had a mk2 Jazz and now got mk3. It seems to me that the gear ratio is different to the mk2 and the mpg does not seem brilliant to me, about 43 on good runs at the moment but have been driving at 70, do you think that this will improve with more mileage.
What do people consider at what mileage on these engines are they considered as run in ?
Many thanks.
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Hi Roddy0000. I own a mark 3 Jazz ex cvt 2017 I am very pleased with the car and
Get good mpg. Average 50+ on a run cruising within the limits.
My best mileage to date 58 mpg on a run Whitby to North Wales. I try to fill up with BP premium about every 4 fill. I personally found the car improved after about 5,000
Hope this helps regards. Taffy 59