Author Topic: Honda Jazz CVT - Getting the car quickly off the line from rest  (Read 7160 times)

Skyrider

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Re: Honda Jazz CVT - Getting the car quickly off the line from rest
« Reply #15 on: October 08, 2018, 08:49:24 AM »
There's only so much you can do. None of the CVT variants of the Jazz have been particularly fast off the line. I think the CVT is trying to protect itself. You just have to learn to anticipate and get going ahead of time.

By flooring the accelerator pedal in a CVT (carpet crushing, not half hearted down to the resistance) it not only drops the CVT ratio it almost instantly activates the I-VTEC system as the engine reaches about 4,000 rpm and that is where the power is.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2018, 11:56:06 AM by Skyrider »

andruec

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Re: Honda Jazz CVT - Getting the car quickly off the line from rest
« Reply #16 on: October 08, 2018, 01:55:59 PM »
There's only so much you can do. None of the CVT variants of the Jazz have been particularly fast off the line. I think the CVT is trying to protect itself. You just have to learn to anticipate and get going ahead of time.

By flooring the accelerator pedal in a CVT (carpet crushing, not half hearted down to the resistance) it not only drops the CVT ratio it almost instantly activates the I-VTEC system as the engine reaches about 4,000 rpm and that is where the power is.
Did you miss-read the thread title? We're talking about 'getting the car quickly off the line from rest'  - ie; moving off from stationary. None of the 1.3 versions will do anything other than relatively gentle acceleration at first. There is absolutely nothing you can do to even get close to spinning the front wheels (except on ice). And as the OP first stated it can be a problem at a busy junction.

It's possible that the 1.5 litre version is different but I'd be a little surprised. From the way all the other versions act it seems that the CVT is designed to protect itself from excessive torque. That would make sense because torque transmission has always been the weak point of the belt CVTs.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2018, 02:03:55 PM by andruec »

Skyrider

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Re: Honda Jazz CVT - Getting the car quickly off the line from rest
« Reply #17 on: October 08, 2018, 04:01:55 PM »
There's only so much you can do. None of the CVT variants of the Jazz have been particularly fast off the line. I think the CVT is trying to protect itself. You just have to learn to anticipate and get going ahead of time.

By flooring the accelerator pedal in a CVT (carpet crushing, not half hearted down to the resistance) it not only drops the CVT ratio it almost instantly activates the I-VTEC system as the engine reaches about 4,000 rpm and that is where the power is.
Did you miss-read the thread title? We're talking about 'getting the car quickly off the line from rest'  - ie; moving off from stationary. None of the 1.3 versions will do anything other than relatively gentle acceleration at first. There is absolutely nothing you can do to even get close to spinning the front wheels (except on ice). And as the OP first stated it can be a problem at a busy junction.

It's possible that the 1.5 litre version is different but I'd be a little surprised. From the way all the other versions act it seems that the CVT is designed to protect itself from excessive torque. That would make sense because torque transmission has always been the weak point of the belt CVTs.

I agree that the 1.3 is slow off the mark, this is more down to the Atkinson cycle than anything else. Have you driven a 1.5?

barcam

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Re: Honda Jazz CVT - Getting the car quickly off the line from rest
« Reply #18 on: October 08, 2018, 04:21:44 PM »
I test drove both the 1.3 and 1.5 engines with CVT and the 1.5 is a lot quicker off the mark. Its that momentary slight hesitation when you hit the throttle from rest that you have to factor into the equation when to join the traffic on a roundabout even in sport mode. No complains about the rolling acceleration, its given a few people a surprise.

Even so I really like the CVT gearbox because its so relaxing to drive in traffic and a lot quieter at 70mph than the manual, 2500 rpm instead of 3500 rpm.

guest4871

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Re: Honda Jazz CVT - Getting the car quickly off the line from rest
« Reply #19 on: October 08, 2018, 04:24:15 PM »
There's only so much you can do. None of the CVT variants of the Jazz have been particularly fast off the line. I think the CVT is trying to protect itself. You just have to learn to anticipate and get going ahead of time.

By flooring the accelerator pedal in a CVT (carpet crushing, not half hearted down to the resistance) it not only drops the CVT ratio it almost instantly activates the I-VTEC system as the engine reaches about 4,000 rpm and that is where the power is.
Did you miss-read the thread title? We're talking about 'getting the car quickly off the line from rest'  - ie; moving off from stationary. None of the 1.3 versions will do anything other than relatively gentle acceleration at first. There is absolutely nothing you can do to even get close to spinning the front wheels (except on ice). And as the OP first stated it can be a problem at a busy junction.

It's possible that the 1.5 litre version is different but I'd be a little surprised. From the way all the other versions act it seems that the CVT is designed to protect itself from excessive torque. That would make sense because torque transmission has always been the weak point of the belt CVTs.

I agree that the 1.3 is slow off the mark, this is more down to the Atkinson cycle than anything else. Have you driven a 1.5?

 The car which is the subject of the original query (as I understand it) is a Honda Jazz Sport Navi CVT 2018.......

Jocko

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Re: Honda Jazz CVT - Getting the car quickly off the line from rest
« Reply #20 on: October 08, 2018, 04:28:34 PM »
Barcam will confirm, but I don't think it is the 1.5.

Skyrider

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Re: Honda Jazz CVT - Getting the car quickly off the line from rest
« Reply #21 on: October 08, 2018, 04:41:10 PM »
Barcam's photo is of a red sport and he mentions a sport in the OP. The only hesitation I have noticed is when the engine auto starts, it takes a split second for the CVT oil pump to come up to pressure and the CVT to engage. To overcome this I restart the engine when I see a move off coming. This can be seen easily on an engine start after a long (overnight) stop. When you start the engine and engage drive or reverse it takes a second for the engine revs to drop as the transmission oil comes up to pressure and the CVT engages. I don't do full power starts from a standstill and can overcome the hesitation by predicting a move off.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2018, 04:43:18 PM by Skyrider »

barcam

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Re: Honda Jazz CVT - Getting the car quickly off the line from rest
« Reply #22 on: October 08, 2018, 04:46:13 PM »
Barcam will confirm, but I don't think it is the 1.5.

My Car is Jazz Sport CVT.

barcam

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Re: Honda Jazz CVT - Getting the car quickly off the line from rest
« Reply #23 on: October 08, 2018, 04:48:44 PM »
Barcam's photo is of a red sport and he mentions a sport in the OP. The only hesitation I have noticed is when the engine auto starts, it takes a split second for the CVT oil pump to come up to pressure and the CVT to engage. To overcome this I restart the engine when I see a move off coming. This can be seen easily on an engine start after a long (overnight) stop. When you start the engine and engage drive or reverse it takes a second for the engine revs to drop as the transmission oil comes up to pressure and the CVT engages. I don't do full power starts from a standstill and can overcome the hesitation by predicting a move off.

I feather the brake pedal to keep the engine running if I'm expecting to move off quickly. I confirm that its a bigger hesitation after a stop/start restart.

andruec

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Re: Honda Jazz CVT - Getting the car quickly off the line from rest
« Reply #24 on: October 08, 2018, 04:48:57 PM »
There's only so much you can do. None of the CVT variants of the Jazz have been particularly fast off the line. I think the CVT is trying to protect itself. You just have to learn to anticipate and get going ahead of time.

By flooring the accelerator pedal in a CVT (carpet crushing, not half hearted down to the resistance) it not only drops the CVT ratio it almost instantly activates the I-VTEC system as the engine reaches about 4,000 rpm and that is where the power is.
Did you miss-read the thread title? We're talking about 'getting the car quickly off the line from rest'  - ie; moving off from stationary. None of the 1.3 versions will do anything other than relatively gentle acceleration at first. There is absolutely nothing you can do to even get close to spinning the front wheels (except on ice). And as the OP first stated it can be a problem at a busy junction.

It's possible that the 1.5 litre version is different but I'd be a little surprised. From the way all the other versions act it seems that the CVT is designed to protect itself from excessive torque. That would make sense because torque transmission has always been the weak point of the belt CVTs.

I agree that the 1.3 is slow off the mark, this is more down to the Atkinson cycle than anything else. Have you driven a 1.5?
No, it's not. I've owned all versions of the CVT Jazz except for the 1.5l. They have all had a distinctly lack-lustre acceleration from standstill. I agree that you have to lift off early to restart the engine but even if you've prevented the engine from switching off (disabled the feature or light touch on brakes) the car will still not jump forward. Even on the older models, selecting 1st before pulling away didn't help. As the OP said in his first post (and they appear to own a 1.5l) this reluctance to get off line can be a nuisance at busy roundabouts.

No I haven't driven the 1.5 but I'd be intrigued to hear of anyone that managed to spin the front wheels on a decent, dry road surface from standstill. I just don't think the CVT will let you put that much torque to the wheels.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2018, 04:54:53 PM by andruec »

Skyrider

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Re: Honda Jazz CVT - Getting the car quickly off the line from rest
« Reply #25 on: October 08, 2018, 05:39:35 PM »
I have not seen the 2,000 rev restriction on my CVT 1.5. I never tried dropping the clutch at high engine revs with my 1.3. I have activated the traction control during a start on a wet road in the 1.5.

On the first start of the day watch the rev counter as you engage drive or reverse, you will see the delay until the revs drop as the CVT oil is pressurised by the CVT oil pump. This happens to a lesser degree with all engine stops.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2018, 07:07:46 PM by Skyrider »

barcam

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Re: Honda Jazz CVT - Getting the car quickly off the line from rest
« Reply #26 on: October 08, 2018, 05:51:58 PM »
The CVT gearbox prevents any wheel spin which is good thing because when the wheels are spinning you are not going forward. Interesting thought about switching off traction control, anybody tried this?

Jocko

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Re: Honda Jazz CVT - Getting the car quickly off the line from rest
« Reply #27 on: October 08, 2018, 06:09:18 PM »
Barcam will confirm, but I don't think it is the 1.5.

My Car is Jazz Sport CVT.
Sorry. I knew it was the Sport, but when I looked on the Honda site and you select the Sport, it offers you the 1.3 or the 1.5. I thought you could get either. However, if you select the 1.3 it tells you you cannot get that option. Looks like the person who designed the infotainment had a hand in the web site!

andruec

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Re: Honda Jazz CVT - Getting the car quickly off the line from rest
« Reply #28 on: October 08, 2018, 07:20:11 PM »
The CVT gearbox prevents any wheel spin which is good thing because when the wheels are spinning you are not going forward.
That's true but I think it goes beyond that. On a decent road surface I bet you can make the manual version leap forward without wheel spin. Just stick it in first gear and floor it - the revs'll be up to the red line in a couple seconds.

Now granted the CVT seems to prefer to initially go to 4,000 with kickdown rather than red line but it won't get to 4,000 in a couple of seconds either. Not from standstill. From 10mph, yes, it will kick down but it won't kick down from stationary.
Quote
Interesting thought about switching off traction control, anybody tried this?
I haven't, no. However I don't think the Mk1 had traction control and it seemed similarly 'hobbled'.

For the record though I'll say that it doesn't cause me a problem and I don't feel it's a limitation. Even the 1.3 can accelerate plenty fast enough in normal use. However I do understand that drivers new to the gearbox might be a bit perturbed the first few times they attempt a 'jack rabbit' start to jump into a small gap at a busy roundabout.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2018, 07:24:06 PM by andruec »

peteo48

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Re: Honda Jazz CVT - Getting the car quickly off the line from rest
« Reply #29 on: October 08, 2018, 10:18:19 PM »
I've definitely mentioned this on another thread but there are a number of roundabouts that I use from time to time when an "assertive" driving style is required. I've found dropping into "S" mode for these situations does the job for me.

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