Weird steering problem!

[DamFit]

Connectors on the EPS (on the steering column) unplugged and inspected. Everything looks OK.
Connectors on the ECU connectors looks like new and no signs of corrosion.
Some heavy rain came so I couldn't didn't have time to do any measurements.

I'm thinking about two options:
1. Replacing the ECU if a manage to get my hands on a used one.
2. Go to a Honda dealer and have them do a diagnostic to hopefully point out what has to be done.

What do you think?

[Jocko]

Depend on what you have to pay for the ECU.

[DamFit]

New update:

Took the car to a garage today and they did a diagnostic. It says (translated from Norwegian): Torque sensor "amplifier" without reach. Permanent.

It looks like the whole EPS on the steering column has to be replaced since the sensor is part of it. Pricey stuff!

Anyone tried to do this operation by them self?

[guest5079]

Looking at the Mk2 manual the job is not for the faint hearted. As to the Mk1 if you can get a manual and I think I saw an online version have a look.  If you have the ability, the time and can get the parts in Norway go for it because if it is a pig, for a garage to do it, you are talking about mega cost.
I have seen many steering racks etc on Ebay, how much comes with the column and rack I know not but have a look. If necessary it surely can be shipped from UK.
If you go to Honda parts Uk put in your model and you get a breakdown of parts and part numbers. Only difficulty is where your Jazz was made. One can only assume if it was Japan, as I believe the Mk1 UK model was made, then the L/H drive and R/H drive might share the same parts, except of course the actual rack.
Good luck

[Jocko]

http://www.hondafitjazz.com/manual.html

[DamFit]

Seems like the 2005 Hatchback is not to be found on that site. It may look like the EPS circuits are slightly different from the other models. I thought all the Jazz's where Hatchbacks?

[Jocko]

What site? If you are referring to http://www.hondafitjazz.com/manual.html then EPS is on page 16 of the Wiring Diagram. Some of the later Mk 1 Jazz models have slightly updated wiring diagrams but there is usually enough there to get you by. The Haynes manual has even less accurate info.
All Jazz/Fit are hatchbacks.

[DamFit]

Ok, thanks. 
I'm referring to http://www.hondafitjazz.com/manual.html and noticed that they write "Except HATC Model" a lot of places, but the EPS diagram doesn't mention that so i guess it's ok.

[guest1372]

Seems like the 2005 Hatchback is not to be found on that site. It may look like the EPS circuits are slightly different from the other models. I thought all the Jazz's where Hatchbacks?

The English language manual is mostly about the 2002 pre-facelift model and there is one section missing, but the German / Dutch / Spanish / French language versions at http://www.hondafitjazz.com/manual2/index.html may relate to the 2005 model more closely. 

I would check the 6 pin torque sensor plug again, maybe one poor contact or a broken wire.

Pin > Colour > Function > Value
1   Red     Sub
2   Not used / Keyway
3   Brown   Signal Earth   0V
4   Blue    Main
5   Yellow  Vref   3.3V
6   White   Vcc   (5V or 12V ~not sure~)
-   Grey/Blue   Shield ground   0V

If it was something else like the EPS motor relay (under dashboard with EPS control unit) then a different diagnostic message would be given.
One other caution, the whole EPS steering rack has several part codes and it's shape has changed slightly between versions, if you are swapping it you may need an exact match to make it fit, although you may find you can just exchange the faulty part (i.e. torque sensor)

No need to change the main ECU, too many complications and does not control the EPS.  The separate EPS control unit has talked to the diagnostic device so we can also assume that it is OK.

Where the manual says 'except HATC model' it does not mean HATChback but 'Honda Automotive Thailand Co'.
--
TG

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[DamFit]

Thanks!
Will definitely look into that 6-pin connector again. Think I'll measure continuity if I unplug the connectors in the other end from the EPS Module and check that the cables and connectors are OK.

I also just spoke to a Honda dealer who said that clearing the Error Code would likely solve the problem. Sounds a bit strange to me but I'll give it a try. According to this link I'll be able to reset the codes by jumping pin 4 and 9 on the 16pin OBD connector: http://www.hondafitjazz.com/manual/A00/HTML/21/SAA2E21K72200000000BBAT00.HTML

Anyone tried that before?

[sparky Paul]

I also just spoke to a Honda dealer who said that clearing the Error Code would likely solve the problem. Sounds a bit strange to me but I'll give it a try.

It's a standard way to diagnose whether a sensor issue is permanent or intermittant. Occasionally, a fault will reset and not come back, possibly when it's the result of some electrical glitch or some other external issue.

[Jocko]

I had an engine management warning light come on back in February. It went out after a minute and has never come back.
With my Volvo, I had a light that had to be reset, but several years later it had never returned either.

[DamFit]

Soooo a quick update:

I got hold of a used, low milage, steering rack and took my Jazz back to the garage where they had done the diagnostics earlier.
They changed the steering rack, but nothing happened.

They did some further diagnostics and realized that the EPS did not get any electric power from the Control Unit so they suggested to change this too. I got hold of a used one and they changed it today, but without any luck.

They said the EPS light kept blinking when they turned the car on, but now it's just lit constantly.

They said I should take the car to a Honda dealer and have a mechanic reset the Control Unit.


Any input before I take it to Honda? Starting to get seriously fed up with this EPS problem..

[guest1372]

It may be a broken wire that had been intermittent but due to movement is now a permanent break.  The 2004/5 car has a known issue with a broken throttle wire, but I have not heard of this in relation to the power steering.  If you've changed out these parts for known good ones then it sounds like the connections to them may be at fault.  If you/they can't fix it then it sounds like their advice is the only realistic option.
--
TG

[DamFit]

Last update: Problem finally solved now!

It turned out that the control unit was all good and working - the problem was the battery. After changing the battery the EPS light went off and everything worked perfectly fine.

Well, that was a long journey to get the EPS working, but thanks again for all your help and support.

Cheers,