Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums
Other Hondas & General Topics => Off Topic (Non-Honda) => Topic started by: Jocko on December 30, 2020, 03:25:58 PM
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This morning, I had a nightmare of a journey from Kirkcaldy to Danderhall, on Edinburgh's southside. I picked my wife up from her work just before 10:00 and when I joined the A92 just to the north of Kirkcaldy the snow was lying at the sides of the road and along the central reservation. The road was wet, and there was a clear blue sky and a very low sun. The fields were so bright with the lying snow. However, once we reached the M90 and turned south, we drove straight into the low sun and snowfields and visibility was atrocious. It continued like that all the way to the Lothianburn junction on the Edinburgh City Bypass. Despite maximum use of the sun visors, both to the front and the side as required and wearing Reactolite driving sunglasses, it was a very tiring journey. Luckily, the road was quieter than normal, but the spray was still terrible, and I used a load of screenwash fluid. A very tiring journey indeed. Luckily the return was okay as by that time snow clouds had percolated down from the north and the sun was very watery if visible at all.
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Do take care! At least the tyres are safe!
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Do take care! At least the tyres are safe!
Thanks. Both my wife and I have commented that isn't it a good thing we have a set of new all-weather tyres fitted.
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That low winter sun is rotten with wet roads, especially at your latitudes. All you can do is go as careful as you can, but you're right, it's very tiring.
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There was a cyclist killed on Christmas morning in the Scottish Borders. 10:50 am. Similar weather conditions. Easy to understand why the driver didn't see him.
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Driving into the low sun isn't easy on aging eyes at the best of times and wet roads add to the misery. Polarised lenses are better for those conditions as they filter much of the glare reflected off the road. I have some clip-on flip-up ones which live in the car and, if I suspect I'll be driving into the sun at some stage on the journey they get put on before I start and left in the up position ready for action.
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Driving into the low sun isn't easy on aging eyes at the best of times and wet roads add to the misery. Polarised lenses are better for those conditions as they filter much of the glare reflected off the road. I have some clip-on flip-up ones which live in the car and, if I suspect I'll be driving into the sun at some stage on the journey they get put on before I start and left in the up position ready for action.
I got a pair of Polarised lens...omg, it's absolute nightmare. If you look into any info screen, it is really distorted. I know the Jazz GE3 got bugger all info but I can't even see the Nextbase dashcam screens and I can see all the glass structure on my rear window every time I check my rear mirror. Unfortunately I got them on my RayBan and I can't afford to change them just yet. On my Ibiza, the stereo display looks really distorted. When I saw this for the first time, I thought the screen was f..ked! Was thinking at the time, "Bloody *********** European car!" Lol!
Talk to your Optometrist for the best sunglasses for driving before investing on a pair.
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Talk to your Optometrist for the best sunglasses for driving before investing on a pair.
That's what I did, hence the glasses I have.
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I got a pair of Polarised lens...omg, it's absolute nightmare. If you look into any info screen, it is really distorted. I know the Jazz GE3 got bugger all info but I can't even see the Nextbase dashcam screens and I can see all the glass structure on my rear window every time I check my rear mirror.
I've had minimal problems with adverse side effects from the clip-ons I use when driving but have bought other clip-ons where the polarisation axis is wrong or there's no obvious polarisation at all. The theory is explained by this graphic at https://www.cyberphysics.co.uk/topics/light/polarised_spex.htm
It's easy to check the polarisation performance by looking through each lens in turn at a source of glare (eg sun reflecting off wet surface) and rotating the lens. There should be minimum glare coming through the lens when it's in the correct orientation. I've not had problems with looking at the info screen through the polarised lenses but have seen the occasional pattern when looking through glass but not to the extent it's a nuisance.
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Journey sounds horrible. One of those when you are just relieved to put the handbrake on at the end and get out!
Re low sun and wet roads. I managed to take out a car park barrier 25 yrs ago in the same situation. Absolutely lethal combination, I simply couldn't see the barrier across the road. Fortunately no one was hurt in the incident, the only damage was the wing mounted ariel got removed.
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I got a pair of Polarised lens...omg, it's absolute nightmare. If you look into any info screen, it is really distorted. I know the Jazz GE3 got bugger all info but I can't even see the Nextbase dashcam screens and I can see all the glass structure on my rear window every time I check my rear mirror.
I've had minimal problems with adverse side effects from the clip-ons I use when driving but have bought other clip-ons where the polarisation axis is wrong or there's no obvious polarisation at all. The theory is explained by this graphic at https://www.cyberphysics.co.uk/topics/light/polarised_spex.htm
It's easy to check the polarisation performance by looking through each lens in turn at a source of glare (eg sun reflecting off wet surface) and rotating the lens. There should be minimum glare coming through the lens when it's in the correct orientation. I've not had problems with looking at the info screen through the polarised lenses but have seen the occasional pattern when looking through glass but not to the extent it's a nuisance.
May be because your's are clip on, John. My prescription is on my lens so may be it's a problem. Looking at the sun is fine but anything like the self order screen in McDonald's is a nightmare.
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May be because your's are clip on, John. My prescription is on my lens so may be it's a problem. Looking at the sun is fine but anything like the self order screen in McDonald's is a nightmare.
You can still do the rotation test on your prescription polaroids using something like an LCD computer or TV screen to look at. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the technician who carved up the circular blanks to fit the frames is clueless about how polarising lenses work and put them in with random orientations. In my experience the lens orientation which takes out the glare from wet roads lets me read computer screens. If I rotate the lens through 90 degrees then the screen goes black. If I try the same test on a tablet then it's black with the lens at about 45 degrees - perhaps to allow for the screen being used in either portrait or landscape mode.
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Another nightmare journey...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-55506891
Look at those tyres. Landrover Discovery drivers think they are impregnable but those tyres look totally useless for speeding along cold, wet, icy roads.
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Another nightmare journey...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-55506891
Look at those tyres. Landrover Discovery drivers think they are impregnable but those tyres look totally useless for speeding along cold, wet, icy roads.
That pillock must have been going at some speed. Some 4x4 drivers think that having four driven wheels means they are not subject to the laws of physics. :(
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Some 4x4 drivers think that having four driven wheels means they are not subject to the laws of physics. :(
No problems going, it's the steering and stopping that's the problem
Same as the one I had a couple of years ago
there was black ice all over the place around here, I witnessed one 4x4 driver in front of me decide he was overtaking all the cars doing 30mph, only to deposit his shiny new Range Rover in the hedge bottom 200 yds further down the road at the next bend. Six hours later, I was making the same journey, and there was a Vauxhall Mokka in exactly the same spot, only he had hit the electricity pole and snapped it in two. I bet that rattled his fillings!
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Another nightmare journey...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-55506891
Look at those tyres. Landrover Discovery drivers think they are impregnable but those tyres look totally useless for speeding along cold, wet, icy roads.
Animals licking road salt is pretty common, even when it is already on a vehicle. We went to local beauty spot a few years ago and I noticed sheep taking an interest in cars on the carpark, when I looked there were 'lick' marks on the rear bumpers - the car park attendant said the sheep where there a lot of time 'licking bumpers'. Also seen wagtails ( other birds may do it ) pecking squashed insects off the front bumpers and number plates of parked cars, like those cleaner wrasse on the coral reefs. https://www.saltwateraquariumblog.com/bluestreak-cleaner-wrasse-care-guide-quick-facts/ except these birds are cleaning the front of your car.
As for 4X4 drivers, most don't even know about the laws of physics, let alone that they are breaking them with dodgy / unsuitable tyres on a heavy vehicle. I went to a MotoX meeting with my brother in his 4x4 with locking diffs for offroad, the 4x4 were getting directed to the sloping part of the carpark and some were getting stuck on the slippery grass ( including us by the way ) - summer tyres just do not cut it in slippery conditions....
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Some 4x4 drivers think that having four driven wheels means they are not subject to the laws of physics. :(
No problems going, it's the steering and stopping that's the problem
Same as the one I had a couple of years ago
there was black ice all over the place around here, I witnessed one 4x4 driver in front of me decide he was overtaking all the cars doing 30mph, only to deposit his shiny new Range Rover in the hedge bottom 200 yds further down the road at the next bend. Six hours later, I was making the same journey, and there was a Vauxhall Mokka in exactly the same spot, only he had hit the electricity pole and snapped it in two. I bet that rattled his fillings!
I think LOL would be appropriate for your 2018 post. Muppets. Problem is, they are very dangerous and unaware.
I think it's also partly down to the 'Volvo' syndrome. Modern cars come with that many safety features, air bags and abbreviations such as ABS, EBD, SIPS etc etc etc that it lulls people in to a false sense of security. My first car was a Morris Marina, and I learnt early about traction and braking.
Hmmm, compulsory re-test every 10 yrs to cut down on the muppetry we all witness every day on UK roads? Its a thought. Not a vote winner and will never happen, but it would certainly make our roads a lot safer if drivers concentrated on actualy driving.
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Hmmm, compulsory re-test every 10 yrs to cut down on the muppetry we all witness every day on UK roads? Its a thought. Not a vote winner and will never happen, but it would certainly make our roads a lot safer if drivers concentrated on actualy driving.
It would certainly weed out quite a few incompetent drivers, and maybe those who genuinely don't understand the dangers posed by adverse conditions, but unfortunately much of the stupidity you see is entirely intentional, often as a result of impatience.
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What would be of benefit would be compulsory skid pan training. When my step-daughter's ex passed his test (later in life as he had been a biker until then), we gave him skid pan training at Knockhill. There they get training on both front and rear-wheel drive vehicles. He thought it was the most worthwhile training he had had, despite his company having put him through the Pass Plus training.
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What would be of benefit would be compulsory skid pan training. When my step-daughter's ex passed his test (later in life as he had been a biker until then), we gave him skid pan training at Knockhill. There they get training on both front and rear-wheel drive vehicles. He thought it was the most worthwhile training he had had, despite his company having put him through the Pass Plus training.
Every three months at work I have to do a round of three, sometimes four sets of mandatory training, to keep me compliant with my industry's regulations. I see no reason why driving, which is a potentially lethal activity, should not have something similar. Annual mandatory online trading an tests. Five year mandatory assessed driving review, which would not cost you your licence but might impact what your next mandatory training might be.
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but unfortunately much of the stupidity you see is entirely intentional, often as a result of impatience.
spot on...
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You all make some great points..........unsurprisingly! :D It's nice to know I'm not alone in taking driving seriously.
Wouldn't it be nice if most people just did one thing when driving. Concentrate on the job in hand. If you're in the drivers seat, then give it your full attention as you did when taking your test, and drive.
26,610 people were killed or seriously injured on UK roads in a year. 1770 deaths, meaning 24,840 were seriously injured. 68 people every day! How come this doesn't make the news? Why is this number acceptable? What cost to society in purely financial terms if nothing else?
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/754685/quarterly-estimates-april-to-june-2018.pdf (https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/754685/quarterly-estimates-april-to-june-2018.pdf)
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26,610 people were killed or seriously injured on UK roads in a year. 1770 deaths, meaning 24,840 were seriously injured. 68 people every day! How come this doesn't make the news? Why is this number acceptable? What cost to society in purely financial terms if nothing else?
You can certainly stop most road deaths by preventing any vehicles from ever moving anywhere, just like you can stop plane crashes by grounding all planes.... There has to be a risk benefit calculation for pretty much anything humans ( or any animal ) does. Shutting down all road and air traffic would prevent deaths from that activity but would cause deaths elsewhere from starvation or lack of medicines. Stopping all road and air traffic would effectively shut down civilisation as we know it - so the risk benefit calculation comes down firmly on the side of letting traffic continue. over 600,000 people ( say 12,000 per week ) die in UK every year from all causes, the road deaths are a tiny fraction of that. You would never see on the news that 12,000 people died in the past 7 days would you.
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I never understand why they did away with public information films, they seem to have been able to resurrect them for coronavirus.
Especially the one that teaches people how to use roundabouts, that would be a good start ::)
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You can certainly stop most road deaths by preventing any vehicles from ever moving anywhere, just like you can stop plane crashes by grounding all planes.... There has to be a risk benefit calculation for pretty much anything humans ( or any animal ) does. Shutting down all road and air traffic would prevent deaths from that activity but would cause deaths elsewhere from starvation or lack of medicines. Stopping all road and air traffic would effectively shut down civilisation as we know it - so the risk benefit calculation comes down firmly on the side of letting traffic continue. over 600,000 people ( say 12,000 per week ) die in UK every year from all causes, the road deaths are a tiny fraction of that. You would never see on the news that 12,000 people died in the past 7 days would you.
I am not suggesting we do stop traffic. Air, road, rail or marine. Risk is part of how we have evolved. I have done lots of things over the years that have been risky and found that risk to be exhilirating. Biking being a case in point. However, I still find the figures unacceptable. Road safety is not taken seriously enough in this country. Almost ignored by our government and not enforced because of cuts to police numbers.
Road safety is an extremely important issue to me, and I think it deserves more attention than it is given.
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You can certainly stop most road deaths by preventing any vehicles from ever moving anywhere, just like you can stop plane crashes by grounding all planes.... There has to be a risk benefit calculation for pretty much anything humans ( or any animal ) does. Shutting down all road and air traffic would prevent deaths from that activity but would cause deaths elsewhere from starvation or lack of medicines. Stopping all road and air traffic would effectively shut down civilisation as we know it - so the risk benefit calculation comes down firmly on the side of letting traffic continue. over 600,000 people ( say 12,000 per week ) die in UK every year from all causes, the road deaths are a tiny fraction of that. You would never see on the news that 12,000 people died in the past 7 days would you.
I am not suggesting we do stop traffic. Air, road, rail or marine. Risk is part of how we have evolved. I have done lots of things over the years that have been risky and found that risk to be exhilirating. Biking being a case in point. However, I still find the figures unacceptable. Road safety is not taken seriously enough in this country. Almost ignored by our government and not enforced because of cuts to police numbers.
Road safety is an extremely important issue to me, and I think it deserves more attention than it is given.
With all the seatbelts, crumple zones, ABS, airbags and other tech like lane assist and auto braking cars are safer than ever, unfortunately the same cannot be said for the distracted impatient people who are in control of the accelerator and steering wheel, many people seem to prefer the horn to the brakes, and not to mention indicators. Maybe it is the feeling safety of drivers inside their cage that means they take more risks. It is time to to treat people who kill people with a car as harshly as if they had stabbed them, the punishment for dangerous or careless driving that results in someone dying is not harsh enough..
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Mobile phones must be one of the biggest causes of accidents these days. The number I see and the quality of driving goes through the floor.
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With all the seatbelts, crumple zones, ABS, airbags and other tech like lane assist and auto braking cars are safer than ever, unfortunately the same cannot be said for the distracted impatient people who are in control of the accelerator and steering wheel, many people seem to prefer the horn to the brakes, and not to mention indicators. Maybe it is the feeling safety of drivers inside their cage that means they take more risks. It is time to to treat people who kill people with a car as harshly as if they had stabbed them, the punishment for dangerous or careless driving that results in someone dying is not harsh enough..
I agree. As I said above, "I think it's also partly down to the 'Volvo' syndrome. Modern cars come with that many safety features, air bags and abbreviations such as ABS, EBD, SIPS etc etc etc that it lulls people in to a false sense of security."
Impatience is a key here too. We lead busy lives and the roads are every busier. You've only to look at average speeds in London for example to see why. Even in outer London the average speeds have dropped by 1mph over the last decade to just 19.3 mph. https://www.london.gov.uk/questions/2019/19767 (https://www.london.gov.uk/questions/2019/19767) - I still chuckle at folk in vanity supercars in central London being overtaken by 50cc scooters!
Punishment, well cameras do not replace actual traffic cops. We need more police. Our PM has got 20,000 on the way. I've not seen them yet, but..... We need proper traffic cops and not multi tasking units that are used to attend other incidents. Actual dedicated roads policing officers.
When I started driving in 1989, the roads were controlled by a fleet of Rover 827 and Vauxhall Senators. I've been stopped, educated and even once fined for speeding. You knew there was a good chance that poor driving would be spotted by and at best you would get a proper dressing down, and at worst punished. A real actice deterrent. Let alone the added benefit of vehicle safety standards with the likes of bald tyres. A roadside ANPR can't do that.
Technology. In car tech is out of control. I see too many smart phones and sat navs blocking windscreens. It is an offence, but enforcement remains the issue. Same is true with mobile phone useage, the points and fine could increase, but if there are no traffic police?
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On motorbike forums people in 4 wheel vehicles ( not just cars ) are referred to as 'cagers' - and the vehicles as 'fug-boxes' - riding a motorbike is a real lesson in being vulnerable on the road, I have my LED headlight and a couple of 10watt LED spotlights on all the time I am riding in daylight ( never ride at night these days ), most motorbike headlights are like Volvo headlights these days - come on with ignition and impossible to turn off, but you still see bikes with no lights on, maybe they fiddled the wiring. A few bikers still prefer a loud exhaust to having lights on, they repeat the mantra 'loud pipes save lives' - but that car in the junction ahead or the oncoming car overtaking can't hear the loud pipes.... and they are the danger.
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"Smidsy" - Sorry mate I didn't see you. That's what they say when they pull out in front of you. I ride with my headlamp on. When approaching a junction, if I am not certain I've been seem, moving about in my lane with a weave and use of horn usualy does the trick.
I recall reading an article by Richard Hammond many years ago. He was talking about his Yamaha FS1E 50cc needing an MOT in February each year, and how the 16 miles round trip to the MOT station on such an underpowered (although not when you're 16 they're not! ) vehicle on slippery rural roads acted as a bit of a reset button. It reminded him about other road users and viewing hazards for what they might be, potentialy life changing encounters. I think it would do most folk the world of good to experience the same. Maybe a couple of hours on a 125cc and a couple of hours on a pedal cycle ideally, to remind them of what roads are like outside of their supersafe metal boxes. Reset their driving to surviving without a never ending list of letters confirming the safety stuff fitted ESP / ESC, ABS / TC / ASR / XDS/ XDS+ etc.
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Technology. In car tech is out of control. I see too many smart phones and sat navs blocking windscreens.
Not forgetting all the tech built into the cars which can be challenging to operate. The HR-V is equipped with a touch panel for controlling the heating/ventilation/aircon. It's fiddly to use at the best of times and involves looking away from the road ahead. I recall that Honda's press release for the Mk. 4 Jazz noted that they'd listened to user feedback and provided proper knobs and buttons (which must cost more). Similarly, they have provided some real buttons to make the big touchscreen easier to use.
However, plenty of other manufacturers are adding touch-based controls and selling them as improvements. It's an aspect currently ignored by safety testers and regulators.
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Not forgetting all the tech built into the cars which can be challenging to operate. The HR-V is equipped with a touch panel for controlling the heating/ventilation/aircon. It's fiddly to use at the best of times and involves looking away from the road ahead. I recall that Honda's press release for the Mk. 4 Jazz noted that they'd listened to user feedback and provided proper knobs and buttons (which must cost more). Similarly, they have provided some real buttons to make the big touchscreen easier to use.
However, plenty of other manufacturers are adding touch-based controls and selling them as improvements. It's an aspect currently ignored by safety testers and regulators.
I agree 100%. These touch screens are a real problem, and hearing your comment of " fiddly to use at the best of times and involves looking away from the road ahead" is concerning.
Our Saab 900 had about the best dash for clarity I remember from all the cars I've owned. All the controls and switches were easy to reach and use. Dash design has gone backwards.
To be fair though, I find the heater controls in our Jazz unnecessarily complicated and a bit of a faff. When our Jazz dies, I expect to replace it with a MK3, but the controls are a concern. Cross that bridge when I get there.
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I find the heater controls in our Jazz unnecessarily complicated and a bit of a faff.
The heater controls on my Mk 1 could not be easier to operate.
(https://i.imgur.com/GAAxVDU.jpg)
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Why do you need to mess about with the heater controls all the time.
On my Mk3 Ex, I simply switch the climate control to Auto, set the desired temperature and forget it.
Hardly need to touch it, summer or winter, it’s all done for you. 🤠
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Why do you need to mess about with the heater controls all the time.
On my Mk3 Ex, I simply switch the climate control to Auto, set the desired temperature and forget it.
Hardly need to touch it, summer or winter, it’s all done for you. 🤠
The Honda climate control just does not work very well, the temperature drops and blows cold out of vents after a few miles, never blows air where you want and fan speed drops right down to lowest - I prefer Jocko's controls.
Car makers fit touch screens because they are cheap not because they are better, and programmed by a nerd who probably cannot drive a car.
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The Honda climate control just does not work very well, the temperature drops and blows cold out of vents after a few miles, never blows air where you want and fan speed drops right down to lowest - I prefer Jocko's controls.
Car makers fit touch screens because they are cheap not because they are better, and programmed by a nerd who probably cannot drive a car.
I agree, the manual controls on the mark 1 are simple to operate and work very well.
I only use OH's mark 2 occasionally, the climate control just seems fiddly, and it's sometimes not clear what mode it's in, whether aircon is on or off, etc.. I have climate control in my (non-Honda) car, and it seems easier to understand, and to get it to do what you want it to. Perhaps I'm just more used to it. Most of the time, it's left on auto, with auto demist, and it most of the time it just does it's own thing.
I also agree about touch screens for adjusting things like heater controls etc., sheer lunacy.
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The Honda climate control just does not work very well, the temperature drops and blows cold out of vents after a few miles, never blows air where you want and fan speed drops right down to lowest - I prefer Jocko's controls.
I certainly don’t recognise your description of the Mk3 climate control system.
It works fine for me and maintains the temperature I need.
This weather, fan speed does not drop below 2 notches, nor does it blow cold air!
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I think it's all to do with this latest Eco stuff and the quest for mpg stats.
My Lexus IS200 (and my previous Xantias) I could dial in a temp in summer and it got there. From my 2007 Civic, 2009 Civic and 2013 Civic the aircon is pathetic in comparison.
If I dial in 20c it gets down to about 24c or 25c and that's it, cabin still too warm. The cold air from the vents isn't cold enough or strong enough. If I want colder I have to dial in 16c or 'Lo' and that is all 3 Civics from new so aircon in good condition.
Using the same accurate digital thermometer in the same cabin position, up by the rear view mirror, so out of the sun.
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Using the same accurate digital thermometer in the same cabin position, up by the rear view mirror, so out of the sun.
Most climate control sensors are at dashboard level and as the temperature increases as you get nearer the roof that would explain the discrepancy there. I have a digital thermometer on my desk, and there is an outside temperature probe which I normally dangle on the floor. At the moment it is showing 17.4°C at desk height and 14.2°C at floor level.
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I see what you're saying but in my older cars I felt cool/comfortable. In my Civics I still feel hot/uncomfortable when the aircon prematurely turns down to trickle mode.
Yes, the sensor is in the dash behind the steering wheel.
I'm not alone with this, there are others also posting their disappointment with the latest aircon settings.
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The Honda climate control just does not work very well, the temperature drops and blows cold out of vents after a few miles, never blows air where you want and fan speed drops right down to lowest - I prefer Jocko's controls.
I certainly don’t recognise your description of the Mk3 climate control system.
It works fine for me and maintains the temperature I need.
This weather, fan speed does not drop below 2 notches, nor does it blow cold air!
My experience is the same on the HR-V. Set it and leave it alone. Never any of the issues that have been described.
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The MK1 heater controls as posted by Jocko look as heater controls should. Easy, simple.
I was thinking last night about how I can use my TV remote with out even looking at it, and indeed I type without the need to look at the key board. So on that basis, perhaps I would get used to a touch screen and use it as fluidly.
Last year we rented a VW T Roc for a week as we needed a bigger car short term, and that had a touch screen. A week wasnt long enough to get used to it as I do my TV remote, but perhaps long term I would.
@culzean "Car makers fit touch screens because they are cheap not because they are better, and programmed by a nerd who probably cannot drive a car." - you might well be right. Cost, somehow I doubt, but I bet they can charge us a lot more for replacements and diagnostics! And I do think that design is being led by tech rather than what works. Look at the MK1 Jazz, simple, the Saab 900 dash, simple. The complexity adds nothing other than complexity.
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The MK1 heater controls as posted by Jocko look as heater controls should. Easy, simple.
I was thinking last night about how I can use my TV remote with out even looking at it, and indeed I type without the need to look at the key board. So on that basis, perhaps I would get used to a touch screen and use it as fluidly.
Last year we rented a VW T Roc for a week as we needed a bigger car short term, and that had a touch screen. A week wasnt long enough to get used to it as I do my TV remote, but perhaps long term I would.
@culzean "Car makers fit touch screens because they are cheap not because they are better, and programmed by a nerd who probably cannot drive a car." - you might well be right. Cost, somehow I doubt, but I bet they can charge us a lot more for replacements and diagnostics! And I do think that design is being led by tech rather than what works. Look at the MK1 Jazz, simple, the Saab 900 dash, simple. The complexity adds nothing other than complexity.
The touch screen is cheaper to fit than normal control knobs and levers, it gives flexibility of mounting ( only electrical wires are involved not rods and levers ). The price of touch screen to car makers will be dirt cheap.
I guess the difference between the TV remote / computer keyboard and the touch screen is that the buttons on your remote / keyboard are real tactile buttons that you can feel if you pressed them, they also stay in the same place ( not the virtual - multifunction buttons you get on a touch screen ). Nothing that you want to access while you are driving should be hidden away on a touch screen, in my Civic I can adjust heating etc without looking away from the road, which is as it should be. Still not happy with auto climate control though, seems to have a mind of its own and rarely does what I want, also blows cold air from vents once cabin has heated up - which results in front passenger complaining about 'cold draughts' and checking if window is closed..
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The touch screen is cheaper to fit than normal control knobs and levers, it gives flexibility of mounting ( only electrical wires are involved not rods and levers ). The price of touch screen to car makers will be dirt cheap.
I guess the difference between the TV remote / computer keyboard and the touch screen is that the buttons on your remote / keyboard are real tactile buttons that you can feel if you pressed them, they also stay in the same place ( not the virtual - multifunction buttons you get on a touch screen ). Nothing that you want to access while you are driving should be hidden away on a touch screen, in my Civic I can adjust heating etc without looking away from the road, which is as it should be. Still not happy with auto climate control though, seems to have a mind of its own and rarely does what I want, also blows cold air from vents once cabin has heated up - which results in front passenger complaining about 'cold draughts' and checking if window is closed..
I hadn't factored in the tactile side, thanks. That makes sense and completely obvious now you've pointed it out. Doh !!
You're also probably right about screens. I can buy a tablet for what, £30, so the bare screen must cost them a lot less. I'm surprised there has not been more news about them, and are regulators aware of how they work and the safety implications.
Other than impressing the Jones's for 10 minutes or maybe a bit of one-upmanship and bar bragging rights, I don't think any consumer has ever asked for a tablet.
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The latest is that the Police can stop and fine you for fiddling with a phone or SatNav, etc whether in a holder or not.
How does the law stand with fixed screens, especially if some fairly important functions need you to look and tap it ?
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I hadn't factored in the tactile side, thanks. That makes sense and completely obvious now you've pointed it out. Doh !!
That's the problem I have with these setups. They look impressive, but Culzean is absolutely spot on, you shouldn't have to look away from the road to adjust basic functions of the car.
I drove a Peugeot with a touch screen, you actually have to navigate through on-screen menus to get to the heater controls. Not being completely familiar with the car, it was difficult enough to use while looking at it, never mind doing it while driving. Crazy. Give me tactile buttons and knobs any day.
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The touch screen in the new VW Suv we rented was not something I got used to in 1000 miles. I assumed I would get used to it if I owned the car, but as Culzean points out, its the tactile side that lets them down. :-[
That VW has made me a proper grumpy old Victor Meldrew about tech in cars. It had a daft raft of stuff fitted that had to be turned off each time the car was started. Unwanted tech fitted to modern VW:
1) Lane departure -steers itself back into lane and vibrates the wheel and seats - ??? Flashing wing mirror icons!
2) stop start - yeah ok. I can turn the key off when idling - turned that off.
3) Boings at you: Window open - eco driving message close windows and use air con! - Jeeese VW, I know about drag.
4) Boings at you: In neutral over 5 mph. Stop it VW. I like to free wheel (engine running) down hills and up to junctions.
5) Boings at you: Seatbelt off if over 2mph and safety message on dash.
6) Addaptive cruise control: VW decides when it wants to break......grrr stop braking for me..stupid car.
7) Reversing sensors: noisey and I know how to reverse a car.
More stuff Ive forgotten I'm sure, but the 2020 VW was a noisy distracting tech laden distracting expensive thing :D I'm under 50, but the standard tech is clearly designed by 23yr old techies and not aimed at real world experienced drivers.
NB: The VW car rental is run by VWFS, and post rental are retailed under the Das Welt approved used scheme. :-X
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Yesterday I had another nightmare of a journey. On the way to Danderhall, there was a breakdown on the City Bypass and Serena was warning of a 24-minute delay. I used her alternative route through the west of the city and it worked great. Unfortunately, we had to return home in the evening rush hour and she started by sending me into the city (not unusual) but this time she was cutting across from SE to NW. Then the rain started. it was coming down in stair rods, there were huge amounts of surface water, I had no idea where I was and I had little chance of seeing lane markings. Then she took me to a pedestrian/cycle bridge across the canal. When I declined she wanted me to go around the block and try again! I had an idea of the direction I wanted to take so once I made my detour she picked up and selected a route. By this time the traffic was solid, the rain was almost solid, and SWMBO was swearing at Serena.
The sat nav added about an hour to my journey, over taking my normal route, suffering the traffic on the Sheriffhall Roundabout and the City Bypass.
Serena is in the dog house.
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Live traffic and re-routing is a mixed blessing. The driver needs to be able to see the whole of the proposed diversion before accepting the alternative. Plus there's the problem that if a lot of traffic re-routes to the same less roads then they will quickly jam up.
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The law specifically defines an offence of using a hand-held mobile phone while driving in practically all circumstances of driving,
In the case of touch screens for controls, dedicated Satav , ( ie not a mobile phone running a satnav app) that is not an offence until the safety of your driving is reduced when it becomes an offence.
In the case of a mobile phone device running a satnav app, in the opinion of the Chief of London Police, the device is a mobile phone and an offence of using a hand-held mobile phone while driving is committed
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My mobile phone is held in a cradle. it is set before I set off and is not touched again until I arrive at my destination.
I don't give a toss what the Chief of London Police says or even does. I am not breaking the law in Scotland, or the rest of the UK as far as I am aware.
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The law specifically defines an offence of using a hand-held mobile phone while driving in practically all circumstances of driving,
No it doesn’t. We’ve been round this buoy before. See this:
https://www.gov.uk/using-mobile-phones-when-driving-the-law
There would only be an offence if you had it in your hand whilst driving. It is perfectly legal to use a phone or satnav whilst driving provided it’s in a holder, it doesn’t obscure the driver’s view, you use it hands free, and (in the case of a satnav) set it up before driving. Whether that’s a good idea or not is a debatable point, but it isn’t illegal.
The law is stricter for a phone than for a built-in satnav, because you’re not even allowed to touch the phone whereas you can fiddle away with the car’s touchscreen to your heart’s content.
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Today I had another trip across Edinburgh so I decided to go my way, not Serena's. She was very insistent but I ignored her. Big mistake.
There was an accident on the City Bypass and I got stuck in the traffic. Ended up following her route but a 20 minute trip took me 50 minutes so I offer her an apology.